Piano Forum



Enfant Terrible or Childishly Innocent? – Prokofiev’s Complete Piano Works Now on Piano Street
In our ongoing quest to provide you with a complete library of classical piano sheet music, the works of Sergey Prokofiev have been our most recent focus. As one of the most distinctive and original musical voices from the first half of the 20th century, Prokofiev has an obvious spot on the list of top piano composers. Welcome to the intense, humorous, and lyrical universe of his complete Sonatas, Concertos, character pieces, and transcriptions! Read more >>

Topic: Finger suggestions for this chord?  (Read 1535 times)

Offline adodd81802

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1114
Finger suggestions for this chord?
on: February 26, 2016, 12:28:44 PM
.
"England is a country of pianos, they are everywhere."

Offline michael_c

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 255
Re: Finger suggestions for this chord?
Reply #1 on: February 26, 2016, 01:22:23 PM
What piece is it from? I think that the natural sign is badly placed: it should apply to the E, not the D. The chord would then be F, G, Bb, Db, E: harmonically logical and easily playable with one finger per note.

Online brogers70

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1604
Re: Finger suggestions for this chord?
Reply #2 on: February 26, 2016, 01:43:36 PM
I'd say just 54321, except that if your index finger is particularly long, you might find 54312 easier.

Offline piulento

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 224
Re: Finger suggestions for this chord?
Reply #3 on: February 26, 2016, 03:03:27 PM
I agree with michael - I believe the mark is refering to the E.

Offline adodd81802

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1114
Re: Finger suggestions for this chord?
Reply #4 on: February 26, 2016, 03:47:01 PM
.
"England is a country of pianos, they are everywhere."

Online brogers70

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1604
Re: Finger suggestions for this chord?
Reply #5 on: February 26, 2016, 04:30:08 PM
Why not listen to a recording to figure out whether it's the E or D that is natural?

Offline adodd81802

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1114
Re: Finger suggestions for this chord?
Reply #6 on: February 26, 2016, 04:51:54 PM
.
"England is a country of pianos, they are everywhere."

Offline louispodesta

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1077
Re: Finger suggestions for this chord?
Reply #7 on: February 27, 2016, 12:05:47 AM
I have circled the 3 chords in question, i'm trying to tell myself i'm reading it wrong, but it sounds hideious, maybe in the context of the song it will be correct but i'm a little lost on fingering ideas.

I can reach a 9th comfortably and 10th around the keys. This looks like F,G,Bb, D,Eb


Trying to use all 5 fingers seems like a no go, and 5 on the F/G  leaves me at an awkward position where my thumb is then on D and 1st on the Eb...

Even if I tried to omit the F I personally find G,Bb,D,Eb a bit awkward....
Okay.

First things first, and that is the logic associated with Earl Wild's statements in his book, as they relate to different fingerings.  Specific to the OP's question is the common myth regarding pedal.

Wild elucidates that the pedal, nor the piano itself, does not always hold true regarding a particular harmony or an emphasis on a special note.

Accordingly, I played this passage and its corresponding measure before it, and I found the following result:

1)  Play the the G Flat chord of the preceding measure (pedaling on the beat), and then strike the F natural, after the third chord, before playing (also pedaling on the first beat) of the next chord).

2)  Both chords should be fingered with 5,3,2.

The result is that the early F natural of the previous measure will carry through to the next chord.

Offline michael_c

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 255
Re: Finger suggestions for this chord?
Reply #8 on: February 27, 2016, 10:55:41 AM
louispodesta, you seem to be replying to a different question. The question in this thread has nothing to do with pedalling and there is no F natural in the measure preceding the one shown here.

In any case, a quick look at another edition confirmed my suspicion: the natural sign is just badly placed. The top two notes of the chord are E natural and D flat. The same chord appears at the end of the following measure.

If you play the chord with an E flat and a D natural, it not only makes no harmonic sense: it also, as the OP remarked, sounds hideous.

Offline quantum

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6221
Re: Finger suggestions for this chord?
Reply #9 on: February 27, 2016, 05:15:00 PM
Agree with others, that it appears to be a badly placed natural. 

For a bit of fun if that really was the chord: I would play F and G with 5, the rest following with 3, 2, 1. 

Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline louispodesta

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1077
Re: Finger suggestions for this chord?
Reply #10 on: February 27, 2016, 11:32:12 PM
louispodesta, you seem to be replying to a different question. The question in this thread has nothing to do with pedalling and there is no F natural in the measure preceding the one shown here.

In any case, a quick look at another edition confirmed my suspicion: the natural sign is just badly placed. The top two notes of the chord are E natural and D flat. The same chord appears at the end of the following measure.

If you play the chord with an E flat and a D natural, it not only makes no harmonic sense: it also, as the OP remarked, sounds hideous.
1)  Unfortunately, as of late, I take an OP at their word and assume that they have already researched other editions.  So, I used a method common to all pianists of the late 19th and early to mid 20th centuries, and I used pedaling to bring in the F natural early for it to carry over into the next measure.

2)  You, like many others who have viewed my original thesis, still view my work as heresy.

3)  Yes to some ears, the first score sounds odd, however, composers and editor publishers have made mistakes forever.  That is why "Your Piano Teacher Taught You Wrong" because you always take the score/scores for granted, regardless.

Daily, I correct mistakes in original editions. As a case in point, I cite a composer by the name of Poulenc.

And, what is my usual solution?  I take the heretical path, and I obtain several recordings of the piece.  Then, I listen as to how a concert pianist's ear and their advisor/producer interpreted a particular work.

In the future, I suggest that the OP and others take the listening approach, which will lead them to a logical conclusion regarding the accuracy of any score.  As a case in point, I obtained a copy of Gabriel Tacchino's recording of the aforesaid Poluenc Piano Concerto.

Why?  Because, his piano teacher (his only student) was Poulenc!!!
For more information about this topic, click search below!
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert