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Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??! (Read 1723 times)

Offline mjames

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Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
« on: March 19, 2016, 04:08:17 AM »


cactus music

or



stuff in strings piano music.

I already know a few people IRL that love this kind of stuff but what about you? I'm even taking a course about this kind of contemp. music and I still don't get it.
Who here loves it!???! (dont worry Ahinty i already know you do..)

Offline distantfieldrelative

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #1 on: March 19, 2016, 04:14:36 AM »
I use to think it was all garbage. Then I saw a Totentaz performance that used some of these teqhniques and it changed my mind a bit. I don't think that putting screws in the strings and playing random chords is music. But I will admit that it has some use.

But generally I think it is garbage.
Sometimes I can only groan and suffer and pour out my despair at the piano.

Offline mjames

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #2 on: March 19, 2016, 04:19:06 AM »
I think its the type of music that needs something else in order for it to work yknow. One thing that changed my mind about it was some obscure artsy Japanese movie that had a really weird soundtrack...and it kinda worked. Really added to the atmosphere. but I would never go to a concert or go to youtube and listen to the soundtrack itself. just doesnt hold up.

so yeah, still garbage.




Offline quantum

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #3 on: March 19, 2016, 05:42:06 AM »
There was a time when I would have thought this music far too esoteric for me to understand and appreciate.  But somewhere along the line something changed - it clicked.  The more I learned how to listen, and I mean truly openly listen, with an objective mind and exploratory intuition, the more I was able to hear.  Actually, the listening experiences gleamed from this kind of music were beneficial to me in applying to the canon of standard concert music: in that I learned how to differentiate between expectation and experience. 

Many people may approach a first experience of this music with expectations, cultural or societal beliefs, stigmas, even ideologies imparted by our own teachers, of what it is or is not, that in some way shut down at least in part how we listen.  People probably take this music too seriously and try to setup some sort of rational of why this is or is not music of value, as opposed to simply and firstly listening. 

I've been involved in a number of concerts with music of a similar aesthetic, not specifically Cage per se.  A number of extend techniques have made their way into my own improvisations.  So one could say I like this stuff  ;)

Garbage used for prepared piano sounds like a great idea.  I'll have to try it.   8)
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #4 on: March 19, 2016, 06:55:21 AM »
I find it to be total utter bloody s**t!!!

I think a few may remember my comments about Sorabji's Clavicembalisticum (spelling??? - although my spell checker seems to think I meant to type 'multiculturalist')


Offline piulento

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #5 on: March 19, 2016, 08:07:36 AM »
I think the reason this music is so successful (relative to what it is) is not because people enjoy it (the same way they enjoy standart music), but because it has an artistic impact. I'd never put that sort of thing on my music player, but it's a new musical experience. It's more art than music actually. The highlight of it is 4'33, which just shows that for some music is all about the experience, and not about the notes.
I don't really consider this as music, but more as an artistic idea (still think this is stupid though).

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #6 on: March 19, 2016, 03:52:03 PM »
Talentless horsecrap.
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Offline coda_colossale

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #7 on: March 19, 2016, 04:05:06 PM »
Not that I'm a fan of John Cage as a composer in the same sense as say, Stravinsky, I do think his music is there to prove a point, to make us think more outside the box. As a huge fan of the Spectral school, I do think a productive musician has to expand his/her perception and understanding of aesthetics and music as far as possible. What Cage invented/discovered has found  and will find meaningful use by artists.

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #8 on: March 19, 2016, 04:55:30 PM »
Aye mjames you think that shits weird?  PSSSSSHHHHHHH!!!!!

Dude I'm taking post WW2 musical form and that class is the epitome of weird ass sh*t.

I agree with you though.  I think it's all garbage.  Conceptually it sounds kinda cool but when you actually listen to this ish it's just stupid.





this is the bullshit we gotta listen to.
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline distantfieldrelative

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #9 on: March 19, 2016, 04:59:42 PM »
It should exist for the sole purpose of telling new composers what Not to do.
Sometimes I can only groan and suffer and pour out my despair at the piano.

Offline mjames

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #10 on: March 19, 2016, 06:23:43 PM »
Aye mjames you think that shits weird?  PSSSSSHHHHHHH!!!!!

Dude I'm taking post WW2 musical form and that class is the epitome of weird ass sh*t.

I agree with you though.  I think it's all garbage.  Conceptually it sounds kinda cool but when you actually listen to this ish it's just stupid.





this is the bullshit we gotta listen to.

L M F A O

We did some work on Stockhausen's Klavierstuckes but nothing like THIS. What is this??!?!? I still think John Cage's cacti sonata in e flat "Cactitique" is worse...

BUT HELICOPTER STRING QUARTER?
Too hilarious.
These Europeans are way too creative.
AND WEIRD.


Offline dcstudio

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #11 on: March 20, 2016, 12:09:20 AM »
John Cage came to UNT and gave a talk back in the early '90s when I was there.  I was in 4th semester theory/sightsinging which is pretty much all atonal...

I really wanted to like the music... all the profs were soooo excited when he came--the student body was curious... kind of...  (as a side note Harry Connick Jr had been there the month before and NONE of the profs were excited but the students came out in droves... Harry was pretty bigtime then.)  

It was funny to watch the faculty around John Cage they were falling all over each other to be nice to him.  That's what I remember most about his visit...and not learning or being inspired to like his music... as much as I tried. I also remember having a tough time staying awake.. but it was college so that probably had nothing to do with John Cage directly

 (as a second side note -- I can still, to this day, quote pretty much verbatim what Harry said in his talk. I took some of it to heart, too and let it influence me pretty heavily...ahhhh he was so young and handsome then and OMG I had never seen anyone play the piano like he did--wow-- I was totally star-struck lol )


so do I take John Cage seriously yes... do I like it.. a resounding no.  That's just me. Call my tastes pedestrian and middle of the road if you will... I stand by my opinion.  ;D  Harry Connick jr had a far more direct and profound influence on my musical development than John Cage and I met them both within a month of each other.

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #12 on: March 20, 2016, 08:45:30 PM »
I remember for our final we had to compose a contemporary piece and I managed to get away with this.

Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline kawai_cs

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #13 on: March 20, 2016, 08:52:31 PM »

We did some work on Stockhausen's Klavierstuckes but nothing like THIS. What is this??!?!? I still think John Cage's cacti sonata in e flat "Cactitique" is worse...

Somehow I can't help imagining John Cage sitting at the dinner table with his family and laughing in his sleeve...   ;D
Chopin, 10-8 | Chopin, 25-12 | Haydn, HOB XVI:20

Offline alexjr1543

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #14 on: March 29, 2016, 12:19:12 AM »
I remember for our final we had to compose a contemporary piece and I managed to get away with this.


That is the most hilariously bad thing I've ever heard. Especially the addition of the recorder.

Is this something you came up with at the last minute? It reminds me of all those times I got good marks on essays by writing random bullshit.

Offline mjames

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #15 on: March 29, 2016, 01:03:24 AM »
I remember for our final we had to compose a contemporary piece and I managed to get away with this.



So you failed, righ?

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #16 on: March 29, 2016, 01:43:59 AM »
So you failed, righ?

Nope I got a perfect score!

I did everything that was required in the assignment so they had to give me an A.

Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline mjames

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #17 on: March 29, 2016, 02:20:42 AM »
Nope I got a perfect score!

I did everything that was required in the assignment so they had to give me an A.



Literally wut

Lmao

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #18 on: March 29, 2016, 03:29:57 AM »
Literally wut

Lmao


Aye man once you listen to the stuff I've had to listen to, this is pretty normal.  I was supposed to use three composition techniques we discussed in class so I did 12 tone row, planing, and juxtaposition.  The piece is in aba form.  not swearing - swearing - non swearing.

I mean if people can get away with feeding the piano water and hay, three movements of nothing, a helicopter quartet, and straight up train sounds, what I did seems pretty normal lol.

And yes there actually is a piece where you're supposed to bring a bucket of water and a bale of hay on stage and feed it to the piano.

Dude I even quoted the Rach 2 in it lol
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Offline mjames

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #19 on: March 29, 2016, 03:36:05 AM »


And yes there actually is a piece where you're supposed to bring a bucket of water and a bale of hay on stage and feed it to the piano.


seriously what is wrong contemporary classical music

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #20 on: March 29, 2016, 03:41:12 AM »
seriously what is wrong contemporary classical music

There's another one where you're supposed to push an upright piano against a wall as hard as you can and if you push through the wall, keep pushing despite what obstacles may be in the way.  The piece is over when you're too physically tired or the piano breaks down or something like that.
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #21 on: March 29, 2016, 03:44:10 AM »
Ah here's what I'm talking about



Except he didn't use any hay.

There's another arrangement of it except with a guitar.
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Offline mjames

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #22 on: March 29, 2016, 03:49:29 AM »
were trapped in the "anything and everything is music" era

pretty much the same phenomena is plaguing the visual arts (google conceptual art)

Offline ajlongspiano

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #23 on: March 29, 2016, 04:01:10 AM »
This is why I write, uhhh, the way I do. ;)

Best,

AJ

Offline outin

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #24 on: March 29, 2016, 04:57:29 AM »
I feel very old fashioned, since I am not at all interested in any kind of piano playing that involves hands doing something else than touching the keys and the feet doing anything else than working the pedal. I enjoy non-tonal music and dissonant sound worlds, but only with traditional use of instruments. We are all children of our age and and at some point we just cannot keep up with the development anymore...

Offline adodd81802

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #25 on: March 29, 2016, 10:24:24 AM »
.
"England is a country of pianos, they are everywhere."

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #26 on: March 29, 2016, 03:38:04 PM »
I'll just leave this here...

Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline outin

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #27 on: March 29, 2016, 03:42:25 PM »
I'll just leave this here...



That's me after a bad practice session! So maybe I am just trying to learn the wrong kind of music  ;D

Offline visitor

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #28 on: March 29, 2016, 03:46:56 PM »
I'll just leave this here...


kept waiting for the power up to level 9000!
ie

Offline mjames

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #29 on: March 29, 2016, 06:02:03 PM »
Im pretty sure he is just mocking the modern "art world" xD, still funny



We can keep going

Offline romancatholicpianist

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #30 on: March 29, 2016, 07:25:58 PM »
And I thought Alexina Louie was bad. She almost looks normal compared to this. :o
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #31 on: March 29, 2016, 10:14:05 PM »
Im pretty sure he is just mocking the modern "art world" xD, still funny



We can keep going

No this is a legit thing.  We actually discussed this in class.
Live large, die large.  Leave a giant coffin.

Offline richard black

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #32 on: March 30, 2016, 09:24:33 PM »
Worth remembering that John Cage was by nature a bit of a wind-up merchant and liked doing off-the-wall stuff to make people think.
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #33 on: March 30, 2016, 10:33:58 PM »
Worth remembering that John Cage was by nature a bit of a wind-up merchant and liked doing off-the-wall stuff to make people think.
Well, maybe so, insofar as this ever went or indeed could ever go, but it by no means always worked. Let’s not forget that his teacher Schönberg regarded him as an inventor rather than composer per se and that, of him, Cage is reported as having said the following:
"After I had been studying with him for two years, (he) said, "in order to write music, you must have a feeling for harmony"; I explained to him that I had no feeling for harmony. He then said that I would always encounter an obstacle, that it would be as though I came to a wall through which I could not pass. I said "in that case I will devote my life to beating my head against that wall".

Head-banger and would-be wind-up merchant; some credentials for a composer!...

Best,

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Offline quantum

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Re: Okay, who here takes this seriously?!??!
«Reply #34 on: March 31, 2016, 01:16:08 AM »
And I thought Alexina Louie was bad. She almost looks normal compared to this. :o

Alexina Louie is very accessible, even for ears that are not into that type of music.  She has the ability to write in a manner that forms a connection with the listener.  Her writing shows due care against assaulting the listener with an excess of the avant garde. 
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach