I'm at a loss with these pieces. Help?

[reiyza]

It's me again guys. It's been a while since I've posted. Seeing it as I can't post in the repertoire section.

Quick question.

Has anyone played the Chopin 64-2? Did you guys use these same fingering? I'm really having a hard time managing the slur with the grace note with my severely technical deficient 5th finger as shown below. It sounds really jumbled up and I play it consistently. And the part where there is a dotted half note, I'm having a hard time reaching C-Ab even when I played F with 5th finger or should I cheat it with a pedal?



As for the Mozart K.545 I'm having particular problems with the 3rd, 4th and 5th finger with this particular scale(s) when played up to speed, it's either too fast or too choppy. Slowly no problem, but that part's going to be my speed wall.

[brogers70]

I have not played the Chopin so can't help there. On the Mozart scales...It's possible that when you play the 4th and 5th fingers, those fingers are at an angle to the line formed by your forearm. That makes it feel like you are reaching with those fingers and it is awkward. So make sure that you adjust your wrist and forearm so that the 4th and 5th fingers are in a straight line with the line of your forearm.

[reiyza]

adjust your wrist and forearm so that the 4th and 5th fingers are in a straight line with the line of your forearm

Come to think of it, I have been using the fingers for reaching the keys, the 3rd finger on a black key is giving me a really, really hard time, will try your advice later.

Normally I would ask my teacher about this concerns, but I haven't seen him for 3 sessions. Stupid summer vacations.

Thank you brogers.

[adodd81802]

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[chopinlover01]

Hi!
@Mozart- make sure your alignment is good. The wrist should be held high enough for the fingers to drop down with minimal effort. Also make sure you aren't holding tension anywhere, and you feel like you could play for a long time; this is how professionals play for as long as they do!
@Chopin (1)- This piece is a lovely one, and a great one to learn as your first waltz (although there are easier ones out there). As Adodd said, 2-3 (5) 2-4 is the way to go. Use the natural movement of your wrist (most all the time, piano should feel like the most natural thing in the world) to "jump" off the F#-A, so that your hand can reset and land and play the next two intervals easily.
(2)- No troubles if you can't completely connect it in your fingers. That's part of what the pedal is used for (aside from it's timbrel qualities); to connect sonically what your fingers cannot.

Good luck with your studies, friend!

[reiyza]

You are not cheating if you simply cannot reach the notes, I mean how far do we take that concept. I cannot reach a 10th and so have to very slightly roll it.

It really feels like cheating though. But having small hands or hand span is quite frustrating.
If I do roll it, the dotted half note wouldn't be held for 3 counts. Quite Saddening

I haven't got the whole score in front of me can your right hand take the top notes at all?

Yes I'm handling the other top notes just as fine, the transition with the 23 then 5(grace note) 41,

I know its slurred there but you can maybe even get away with 23 again so 23 5 23 see how it sounds.

I'm having problems with. It seems I can perform comfortably the 5(grace)-41 if I played 23 like a staccato then using hand drop(not sure if this is correct) to perform the 5(grace)-41, but then I would violate the concept of the Slur marking.

Interesting fingering you suggested, will try 23-5(grace)-23 later, but the 5(grace)-41 is a comfortable preparation for the next note 1(F#)-5(D#).

I don't condone using the pedal as a crutch but if you can use it and achieve the same sound then who has the right to tell you otherwise?

I use the pedal like the one in ashkenazy's recordings. I hold the pedal from the start of the marking up to the indicated here(red line) and it sound so clear.
I'm using the 50 greats for yamaha book for the 64-2 sheet music, I don't know where they got them but it's similar to pachmann's edition but the pedal markings is horrendously different(Pedal markings dotted with a red star as shown).

make sure your alignment is good. The wrist should be held high enough for the fingers to drop down with minimal effort. Also make sure you aren't holding tension anywhere, and you feel like you could play for a long time.

Hi too chopinlover, will do! I will try to explore the problem more later. Initially I believed the problem was the poor dexterity of my 345 so I devised my own exercises for that specific fingers. I tried everything (rhythm changes, chords, parallel sets as promoted by C.Chang) for almost a week now, but when I played it up to speed, it still is going either too fast or choppy! It is highly discouraging!



Thank you addod and chopinlover.

[briansaddleback]

I have a few things to recommend or advise but I won't bc right now I'm on my smartphone and can't type out all my mind w just one thumb.

[reiyza]

Please do mr brian.

I'm on my day 3 of my practice, and the 23-5(g)-24 is working out quite nicely, I'm just practicing to avoid my hand jumping to hit 5(g)-24 to maintain the law of slurs!


As for the mozart scale, I'm still not doing very well, I'm still in exploration mode, although I have noticed that when I rotate my wrist slightly inward, I could do the scale fast and even, though the awkward motion is uncomfortable. Still finding new ways.

[briansaddleback]

All I can say since I dont have a video on how you are playing it, or what level of learning you are, is that if it can only do slow for you , just do it slow and correctly and nail down every note of that scalar passage . Raise your third fourth and fifth fingers when it is their time to land, raise up and land and firmly drill into the piano w emphasis.
<also it helps to be physically fluent with all scales up and down the keyboard at a decent tempo, this is a basic foundational aspect of all piano students should get to have in their belt; this will help w these basic types of scalar passages, as for me, for example, not to boast, but to be factual, i never practice these types of scalar passages occurring within pieces bc i am fluent in all scales. these are incidental areas of a piece. you should get to that point. hope this encourages you , again, not boasting , just being factual <you can never emphasize that point enough on an internet forum; theyll always misunderstand you or figure you the wrong way if they have a choice>>,
How long have you been playing this ? if only a few days or weeks then it should be no special for you, even many advanced students I know will take more than a few weeks or a month or so before getting up to tempo.
Because you want to nail the passages properly w correct hand/finger /wrist movement and firmly. You have to get that into the muscle memory (low short distance memory to the spine) into the fingers .
The grace note on the 64-2 play them as separate notes for now. nail each note, the grace note, and then the chord. be  confident enough to nail these two notes then shorten the timing between these two notes later. Let your fingers firmly basally understand what they are trying to do. engrain it deep into muscle memory. Your fingers have to be familiar w that movement.
That for now. Well..perhaps it will solve it all for you good luck.


oh, and also on the sustain of the f yes, you can hold pedal down it is fine, it is not cheating. however you should be able to reach the c and ab with your second and thumb on left hand. It is doable (chopin etudes address these types of issues , once I thought there were several finger contortions which were impossible but now I have a larger set of tools of finger contortions, not that youre interested ), but if youre not there to flex, then use the pedal


I really hope this helps in some way. I appreciate your candor about yourself and willingness to learn and I want to help people like you.