Mahler 2 Organ Part

[wwalrus]

Hey everyone.

In about a month and a half I'll need to play the organ part to Mahler 2 at carnegie hall, but I've never played organ before. Can anyone help me find out what I need to know to be able to do this? Thanks!

[chopinlover01]

You're playing organ at Carnegie in less than 2 months without ever having played an organ before?

And I won the lottery. Right...

[wwalrus]

Seriously, can't make this up. I play orchestral keyboard for a youth symphony and they asked me to play the organ part when they go to Carnegie- I just need to be able to know if I can do that or not.

[chopinlover01]

Actually, you very well CAN make this up.
But, I'll treat your situation as real.
Assuming you can adjust well to the action of an organ, it's not too terribly different. It's much like those cheap plastic keyboards that have no weight sensitivity, only it has decent quality.
You'll have to really work on the foot pedals with whatever rehearsal time you have on an organ; if you're a member of any church(es), see if they'll let you use their organ (almost all have them), perhaps in exchange for playing for a service or two (a great experience in any case).

[wwalrus]

Alright- I'll ask a church if they'll let me practice for a bit. For the actual part for Mahler is there a lot going on with the pedals?

[visitor]

I had to minor in an instrument and chose organ. Its a different beast allrogether. Tottally different touch and technique approach is needes.


https://www.tictactoes.com/OrganShoes.html
1. Get a pair of organ shoes, you need that stacked heal and soft sole for easier and proper pedal board work
2. Try try try to get organ lessos asap, check w local college or university w musoc profeam, hire an advanced graduate or undergrad student explain the scenario and focua o learnibf the work on the organ w pointers on how to play the insrument
3. Let the conductor know that you are doing your best but they are essebtially asking you to learn a new instrument w 2 months notice.

[wwalrus]

Wow, ok. When looking at the part I thought it wouldn't be too difficult but now I understand how much there is to learn here. Thanks for the advice.

[iansinclair]

Oy.  Well, fortunately that part isn't that difficult, technically.  However... as Visitor said, the organ is a completely different beast, giving the illusion of being the same since it has a keyboard.  In fact, several of them, and the pedal board to boot.  Well, not to boot, but to be played with very nearly the same skill and dexterity as the finger keyboards.

In addition to getting usable shoes (although some organists -- myself included -- usually play in soft slippers) get all the practice time that you possibly can on a local church instrument.  The fingerings used are different, and the feet have to play in perfect unison with the hands, and the touch is completely different.

There is another gotcha: registration.  That is to say, the selection of which ranks of pipes sound when you play on which keyboard or on the pedal board.  With two months to learn, and probably no opportunity to play on the Carnegie instrument until late in the rehearsal process, I strongly recommend that you and your conductor, who presumably knows the sound he or she wants, get together with the regular organist and decide on what registrations to use where, ad learn how to set them up and change them as needed during the piece (the registration does change in the Mahler, by the way)(something else for your hands to do...)

Get a good page turner and assistant and practice with him or her.  You'll need it.

Also be sure to get time to play on the Carnegie instrument, and try it.  It sounds weird, but I have known people in your situation who simply froze solid the first time they came close to drawing the full organ.  Trust me: a major organ like that one, in full cry, will let you know in no uncertain terms why it is called the King of Instruments.  Remember -- you will have the power there to overcome the entire orchestra!

[iansinclair]

And furthermore...

here is a picture of the console:

https://www.rodgers550.com/carnegie.html

It is a lovely instrument (and yes, I have played it).

[diomedes]

I looked at what imslp has, unless there's some mistake, it's less than a page of music.

Still, playing in Carnegie Hall... But still, from what I can tell you need to learn a few gimmicks about the organ, the part hardly needs learning.

[iansinclair]

I looked at what imslp has, unless there's some mistake, it's less than a page of music.

Still, playing in Carnegie Hall... But still, from what I can tell you need to learn a few gimmicks about the organ, the part hardly needs learning.

Quite right.  Technically, it's a walk in the park (organ bits in orchestral music often are, unlike, say a piano concerto!)(Even the Saint-Saens "Organ" symphony isn't particularly demanding).  This brings with it, however, a hazard: to put it bluntly, mistakes are not an option.  One is dealing with an instrument which has all the power of the full symphony orchestra.  As I said in my previous post, I have known more than one good pianist who simply froze in total panic -- so, to the OP, practice practice practice and play on that specific instrument until the thrill of commanding those resources with your hands and feet overcomes the awe or whatever...

And believe me, it is a huge thrill, and well worth the effort!  (from my own experience, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing, not even conducting a full orchestra -- to match playing the great Tocatta from the Widor 5th organ symphony.  Try this:

By Diane Bish, who is simply superb).

[wwalrus]

Thank you so much for your advice. Luckily I've played with this same orchestra as an orchestral keyboardist at carnegie so hopefully nerves shouldn't be too unexpected. I'll meet with an organist this next week at some point to get a feel for what has to be done. Thanks again for the help!

[quantum]

Aren't you lucky!

If you have a MIDI keyboard at home you can practice getting the registration sounds in your head with virtual organ software.  Of course it is not the same as sitting at an actual console, but it is something you can you on your own time.  There are several to choose from both open source and commercial.  I like open source projects, so have spent some time with jOrgan.

https://jorgan-home.de
https://grandorgue.de

This one is commercial, but there is a free version available:
https://www.hauptwerk.com

An alternative to specifically made organ shoes are ballroom dance shoes.  They share many of the same attributes.  If you go the dance shoe route, I would recommend ones with suede soles.  What I like about dance shoes is that it is often easy to find a dance shoe store and try out shoes in person. 

Agree with the other posters, get in as much practice as you can.  I would recommend practicing how to get out of wrong notes. Stuff happens, even to seasoned players, and it is good to have a strategy in place so you don't have a panic attack.  Unlike piano, you can't just lighten your touch if you are unsure of notes and try to sneak uncertain notes by - they will sound and be unapologetic.  If you know how to get out of rough waters you will be less tense in the performance.  Don't go for perfection, aim for musicality.

Here's the details on the organ:
https://database.organsociety.org/SingleOrganDetails.php?OrganID=24509

[iansinclair]

Quantum -- I think that your link refers to the original instrument.  At the present time I believe that the instrument is a Rodgers 550 -- unless they've gone and changed it again...

[quantum]

Quantum -- I think that your link refers to the original instrument.  At the present time I believe that the instrument is a Rodgers 550 -- unless they've gone and changed it again...

Right you are.  Here is different link that references several instruments.  The latest seems to be a 2006 Rodgers, 3m 76 ranks.
https://www.nycago.org/Organs/NYC/html/CarnegieHall.html

Apparently the 5m Rodgers is on display at the Rodgers factory.  Stop list of the 3m Rodgers digital is at the bottom of the following page
https://www.dafferorgans.com/Installations/RodgersOrganInstallations/tabid/129/c/rodgers-organ-installations/p/carnegie-hall-new-york-city/Default.aspx

[timothy42b]

Although the pros will sneer, a lot of organists play in medium thick black socks.  That's what I did.

One thing that is going to surprise you is how much easier it is to play wrong notes.  On the piano, you have to hit a key fairly hard to have it sound.  On the organ, if your finger just nicks the neighboring key, you get FULL volume.  That was an unpleasant shock the first time I encountered it.  Of course if you play precisely in the center of the keys you may never notice this.

Oh.  finger legato - you do not have a sustain pedal and the organ sound stops rather abruptly when your finger releases. 

[iansinclair]

I always played in thick black socks!  No sneering from me!

And you are so so right about both the legato -- and the dismaying effect of brushing a key on the way to somewhere else...

[wwalrus]

https://imgur.com/PM2Womm

So this actually happened. Thanks for all of your advice, the concert was fantastic!