Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no. 1

[francoisfj]

Hello, this is my take on this Chopin's nocturne, which is of my favourites. There are a lot of mistakes, and I know the doppio moviemento is slower than it usually is played but I intended to play it that way. Also, I find myself having trouble with the arpeggios in the middle section, does anyone have any tip on how to improve them?

I hope you like it and let me know what you think

[abbyes]

Hi !

This is by far my favourite nocturne of Chopin. I'd dare to say that it's even my favourite Chopin's piece ! at least one of them. The beggining of this nocturne is so bewitching, I absolutely love it.

This is my opinion about your interpretation :

You did get very well the essence of the beggining, that "sotto voce", really expressive and sentimental, dark and obscure but at the same time enchanting, despite of the slow tempo you used.

In words of Valentina Lisitsa:

      "One of Chopin's most priceless performance remarks is at the beginning of this Nocturne -- "sotto voce". Just like that : not a girlish "piano" , not an ambivalent "mezzo forte" , not even meaty forte. It effectively bars all over-the-top cheap and showy "expressive emotions" -- no eye rolling allowed , no hair flailing, no hands flying , no sobs , no visible tears..."

At the middle section, it was a bit confusing and the arpeggios did not sound fluent, but that was maybe due to the recording device quality, but you managed pretty well the intersection with the final part.

And then, the final part from 4:55 to the end, in my opinion, you played it too slow. This part I think is a contrast with the slow tempo part of the rest of the piece. It's like an explosion of emotions, but with that speed, I think you cannot really take out the essence of the piece.

Anyway, it was my opinion.

Very well played, I liked it, and I'm sure you'll keep improving it.

EDIT :

Okey, I commented without even reading what you said haha. Yeah, arpeggios always give problems to a lot of piano players. I do recommend you this post :

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=58581.0

And as regards the speed of doppio moviemento, well, if you want to play it like that, go for it ! but I think it loses it's magic. Eitherway, good job

[mjames]

While I also prefer this nocturne to be played on the slower side, i still think the doppi movimento needs to contrast the first section. That's why its preferable to up the tempo just a little bit.

This is also a slow performance, so you can use this (and loads of others!) as reference:

[francoisfj]

Thank you for your comments!

I'll check the arpeggios link now, thanks for it, it's been a while I needed it!

mjames, Listening to the link you gave and having thought about it again, I do think it's a little too slow now :/ But I wouldn't like it very fast the way most pianist play but the one you gave in the link is actually good!

[mjames]

Our tastes in regards to this nocturne seem to align, so i guessed that you might also enjoy Aya's recording. Glad you found it useful!

[chomaninoff1]

I'm not sure if it was just me, but I think you should play this piece just a tad faster. You want to feel like the melody is moving somewhere, not just stagnating.

You played this nicely. Keep up the good work.

[chopinlover01]

I'd second the playing faster notion. The melody isn't really going anywhere, especially at the end.
Remember, doppio movimento- double movement!
You don't need to take it ridiculously fast, just give it some contrast. Rubinstein IMO has the best approach in terms of speed; not blisteringly fast like many modern pianists do, but gorgeously passionate.

[pencilart3]

I think Rubinstein is too fast. Play whatever speed you can connect with most. Hey I just uploaded this myself like a month ago. Interesting to see how they compare and contrast. I have yet to find a "keeper" interpretation of this piece.

[chopinlover01]

Really? I find him quite slow in comparison to say, Lisista's:

Or Ashkenazy's, which is also quite beautiful.

By the way, I used an online metronome to find the average BPM of the doppio movimento sections of your recording and Rubinstein's.
Yours is at dotted quarter = 84 (three notes per beat on 84 bpm)
Rubinstein's varies a lot in pulse, probably more due to recording tech than anything else (many other nocturne recordings of his have this problem). The best I could put it at was actually 88.
So, really only one metronome click faster!
I think part of Rubinstein's image of being faster is his utterly divine balance and singing line which IMO very few pianists have managed to replicate since. But that's just me gushing, haha.

[pencilart3]

Yeah but the DM is only part of the piece.

[jeffkonkol]

If you take this piece in four sections, what you are doing in the first section is positively wonderful.

You mentioned that you had difficulty with the arpeggios in the second section.  I would say that voicing there can be improved as well.  As for the arpeggios, they are written that both hands should be rolling at the same time.  It seems that you were finishing your left hand chord before starting your right in some places.  I don't know though... I've heard them done so many different ways.

In the next section, I really think those chromatic ascending octaves need to be faster.  The triplet feel was completely lost.  When you play that section fast, and legato with almost no pedal (which is what Chopin wrote) there is a truly frantic feeling .... it provides a great contrast.

the DM -  as anyone who has attempted this piece is well aware, the DM *is* the piece.  You spend 10x the practice time on this section to make the voicing come out right.  There are slow versions of this that work- Daniel Barenboim has a real slow DM in his recording of this -- however, his voicing is friggin clear as the day as long, which makes it work.   I would highly recommend speeding it up.. but if you just want to play it slowly, really make that melody sing to the point where all the supporting material is played, but is just a whisper.

I know how hard this piece is... great work thus far on it.  The piece deserves more of your effort, though.  You can make it better :-)

[109natsu]

Hi Francois,

Congratulations! You played it very nicely, and it is one of my favorite nocturnes...
I like your nocturne overall, I don't think that your interpretation is anything bad. I will go section by section on what I noticed, and comments about other posts

I am using the Karl Mikuli Edition, so there might be some markings unintended by the composer. If you are using an urtext, and you don't see the marking, then please tell me

First Section: Lento -> I thought it was beautiful! Fantastic!
-Tempo: I like your tempo. I agree that lento has to be slow, so I think you are on the right track. However, you have to look at the tempo markings of other sections too. The second section, where it turns to C major, has the Poco pił lento marking. That means a little more slow. So in my opinion, you need to make room for the slowness of the second section. Therefore, it can be slightly faster
-Tone: I love your tone! The voicing is great.
-Pulse: I think you need to have a more evident pulse. The piece needs to keep flowing, and it feels stuck at some places. Be sure that your left hand notes are consistent.

You did get very well the essence of the beggining, that "sotto voce", really expressive and sentimental, dark and obscure but at the same time enchanting, despite of the slow tempo you used.

^ I agree

Second Section: Poco pił lento -> Amazingly beautiful!
Maybe a little warmer tone. Bring the base and the top out a tad more.
It should feel a little slower than Lento. I think you went a little faster instead....
You can take less time on the arpeggios, in my opinion. But what I heard was fine

In the next section, I really think those chromatic ascending octaves need to be faster.  The triplet feel was completely lost.  When you play that section fast, and legato with almost no pedal (which is what Chopin wrote) there is a truly frantic feeling .... it provides a great contrast.

I can't agree more with you.

Third Section: Doppio Movimento -> Good, but this needs the most work.

the DM -  as anyone who has attempted this piece is well aware, the DM *is* the piece.  You spend 10x the practice time on this section to make the voicing come out right.  There are slow versions of this that work- Daniel Barenboim has a real slow DM in his recording of this -- however, his voicing is friggin clear as the day as long, which makes it work.   I would highly recommend speeding it up.. but if you just want to play it slowly, really make that melody sing to the point where all the supporting material is played, but is just a whisper.

Yep, yep yep. This is really important.
-Also, keep the pulse, keep the piece flowing. Don't feel stuck. It should feel like you are really playing double the tempo.

By the way, I used an online metronome to find the average BPM of the doppio movimento sections of your recording and Rubinstein's.
Yours is at dotted quarter = 84 (three notes per beat on 84 bpm)
Rubinstein's varies a lot in pulse, probably more due to recording tech than anything else (many other nocturne recordings of his have this problem). The best I could put it at was actually 88.
So, really only one metronome click faster!
I think part of Rubinstein's image of being faster is his utterly divine balance and singing line which IMO very few pianists have managed to replicate since. But that's just me gushing, haha.

Wait, what? Metronome? Don't worry about metronome, but worry about the actual feeling of the piece.

Remember, doppio movimento- double movement!
You don't need to take it ridiculously fast, just give it some contrast. Rubinstein IMO has the best approach in terms of speed; not blisteringly fast like many modern pianists do, but gorgeously passionate.

I agree with this part.

-More evident melody. Right now, I am hearing too much of the repeated notes. They should just feel like you are sinking into the key. Never let the fingers playing the repeated notes leave the key.

After I wrote all this... I just realized that this post was from May

Happy practicing,
Natsu

[stevensk]

You play it very musically. Sensitive, and right tempo (well,"right" whats that?). Good job!