Rach 3!

[mound]

Am I ready to learn it?

just kidding 

I am vaguely familiar with this piece, I never saw that movie Shine,  but everybody is always talking about ths piece. I opened up the local newspaper today, and come to find out that Jon Kimura Parker will be performing it this weekend with the Rochester Symphony approximately 5 minutes from my house. Should I drop $20 and go check it out?

It's funny, the whole article is about how big and scary the piece.. His one bit of advice is "learn it while you're young, otherwise you'll be too afraid"

-Paul

[xvimbi]

Yes, check it out! If you have never heard it live before, go for it. Parker is a decent pianist too (although I didn't like his recent Emperor Concerto too much). It will definitely be a good listening experience. And its such a standard, one should really get to know it.

And it's really not that hard; even I can easily play the first minute of the piano part

[e60m5]

For an even closer shave!

[Rach3]

I'm beginning to think it's not a really hard piece after all, as compared to say a chopin etude. The more you practice it, the more you realize how amazingly pianistic it is... it's almost as if the composer meant to play it himself...

[xvimbi]

I'm beginning to think it's not a really hard piece after all, as compared to say a chopin etude. The more you practice it, the more you realize how amazingly pianistic it is... it's almost as if the composer meant to play it himself...

Excuse me, what does "amazingly pianistic" mean? And yes, the composer did play it himself.

[Rach3]

Yes I know he played it - my sarcasm didn't carry over very well I see.  I meant what I said, the concerto was written to be a virtuosic performance piece that looks much harder than it is, maybe more so than Liszt (just my humble opinion). I don't argue that it's a great piece, or a very hard piece, it's just, in the end, much less demanding than you'd expect.

I've recently seen pianists perform this piece without breaking a sweat, or getting visibly fatigued.

[Alde]

Go watch the concert!  I saw Jackie perform the Rach Paganini Variations several years ago with the Detroit Symphony Orchestra and it was fantastic.  He is a wonderful performer.

[Jeremy C.]

It is a hard peice to play. I can play a good amount of the 3rd movement, and much of the 1rst movement. I'm talking about the Rach 3. Anyway, you really should go see it.

[Rach3]

Jeremy C. - You're 13 and you play most of Rach 3? Very impressive!

mound - Jackie is an amazing pianist, I haven't heard him do Rachmaninoff but if you have the opportunity to hear him then do, you won't regret it.

[larse]

You're 13 and play most of rach 3? Do you have large hands for your age? I remember performing the Prelude Op 23 no 5 at that age. Strained the crap outta my tiny hands..

Rach3 is a horrifyingly difficult piece, overwhelming not only by it's very demanding technique, but also from it's massive and huge form thematically. and length. But it's not at all like Liszt...Liszt is easy (except from some of the Etudes Trancendente), it's just to find the key to not straining and building the motorique for similar motions. basically. Rach3 is alot more demanding.

However, the piece is highly exaggurated(pardon my poor english) in the movie Shine...because it's not at all the most difficult piece ever written...

[hodi]

it's not at all the most difficult piece ever written...

can you think of a more difficult piece?

[xvimbi]

can you think of a more difficult piece?

I hope nobody is going to suggest "Opus clavicembalisticum" ...

[allchopin]

Op. Clavicum..



 

[xvimbi]

Op. Clavicum..


 

Darn!

[hodi]

i'm sick of all those forum members who think that almost every piano piece is easy!
THAT'S IT! and little kids who think that after 1 year of playing the piano they can play rach3 flawlessly!

RACH 3 IS SUPER DIFFICULT, and unless you are a really really great prodigy u can't play it after a year of playing the piano..

[anda]

there is a theory that says for an "accomplished" (i can't find a better word right now) work, the difficulty should be directly proportional with the message carried. any true musician is willing to spend years of his life perfecting a work only if the work (the final result) is worth this sacrifice. personally, i find rachmaninov 3rd to be one of the most complex piano concerts ever written and worth any amount of time working on.

and i think no piano teacher should allow 13 years old students go for it simply because it's not too difficult technically. you could not begin to truly understand this at 13, and there are tons of other works that could be really challenging, and really  helping you progress - works that you can understand both on intellectual as well as on emotional level. (sorry to say that, but i really know what i'm saying)

[nose]

I agree, obviously rach3 is a difficult piece, not the most difficult piece but it isn't easy. But the thing for me that makes this piece difficult is not the notes, like most Rachmaninov it is very well suited to the piano and notes can be learnt with practice, every technical difficulty that he asks is quite reasonable. The thing that makes this a difficult piece is performing it, playing this piece with an orchestra behind you and a conductor is going to be very different from playing it in your front room in your slippers. There is a huge psychological effect, the fact that you know this piece is hard and long and you're playing most of the time without many "easy" bits to break up the sea of notes, and the fact that you have to keep one ear on what the orchestra is doing as well.

[Etude]

I hope nobody is going to suggest "Opus clavicembalisticum" ...

Opus......... er......... 106 by Beethoven 

[mound]

mound - Jackie is an amazing pianist, I haven't heard him do Rachmaninoff but if you have the opportunity to hear him then do, you won't regret it.

Is Jackie his nickname or something?

Anyway, I unfortunately had to leave town for a funeral, so I missed the performance.

-Paul

[Troldhaugen]

It seems to me that many people just love to talk about how difficult Rach 3 and consider it as the epitome of virtuosity. I doubt among those people only a few actually cared to look at the score and try to play it. Having played the 1st movement myself (of course, rather crappy performance), I can tell you it's not the most technically demanding piece I've ever seen. However,  just playing through the entire piece poorly will prove to be physically challenging for the majority of people. Furthermore, at the same time, just like Jk said, you have to pay attention to orchestra and your own performance, as well. Rach 3 is definitely not for the average pianists.

[Hmoll]

can you think of a more difficult piece?

Brahms #2
Prokofiev #2
Barber
Rachmaninov 1st sonata.
Boulez 2nd sonata


Also, ask people who have played both the Rach. 2 and the Rach. 3. Lots will tell you they found Rach. 2 more difficult.

[Jeremy C.]

yes, i have very large hands. i play a lot of liszt, so it really works your hands to prepare you for very difficult pieces. and i sort of am a prodigy. (can't even spell it) but thats because of the countless hours i spend each day trying to make myself better. the way i see it, there is no goal in music. it is continuous.

[KingVeeGrenadier]

How would you really define "most difficult"? I enjoy Liszt's use of octaves (La Campanella, obviously) but - despite my fiddle-back fingers - I can't play such devilish passages. Really, I can't play any of those devilish octave jumps or octave+intervals that he often employed. Is that the most difficult form?

Or what of Rachmaninoff's Allegro Scherzando from Concerto 2? The last four measures are obscene in respect fo fingering, chords, etc. etc. As someone has said, include the orchestra to the equation, and things can get confused. My own timing can be so poor that I often doubt I could play the timpani for that piece. So does rapid chording and tricky fingering make a piece the most difficult?

Or Chopin's etudes (most striking, to me, being 31)?

Why even limit it to the piano - ignoring that this is a piano forum...

Paganini's 24th Caprice can be quite tricky for violin or guitar. Or the Russian folk song "Kalinka", as played on the balalaika?

[anda]

It seems to me that many people just love to talk about how difficult Rach 3 and consider it as the epitome of virtuosity.

when i said it's one of the most difficult works ever, i didn't mean technically. i do believe that's the easy part about rachmaninov 3rd.

I doubt among those people only a few actually cared to look at the score and try to play it.

i have never played it on stage, however, i have studied it up to a point (when i decided i totally hate my version and dropped it)

Having played the 1st movement myself (of course, rather crappy performance), I can tell you it's not the most technically demanding piece I've ever seen.

for technical difficulties, i'd rather suggest 3rd part.

However,  just playing through the entire piece poorly will prove to be physically challenging for the majority of people.

for "resistence" chanllenges, try khatchaturian - much more demanding

Furthermore, at the same time, just like Jk said, you have to pay attention to orchestra and your own performance, as well.

for coordonation challenges, see prokofiev - any concert.

Rach 3 is definitely not for the average pianists.

absolutely!

[viking]

Hey I was searching across something else when I stumbled across this thread.  I went to his second performance in Rochester.  Just thought people might care.  Btw it rocked!  Jackie is amazing!
SAM

[tompilk]

I'm going in November to see Rach 3 - Barry Douglas - and it's costing me only Ł2.50!!! (about $4)!!! Anyway, I thought it was great value.
Tom

[thierry13]

i'm sick of all those forum members who think that almost every piano piece is easy!
THAT'S IT! and little kids who think that after 1 year of playing the piano they can play rach3 flawlessly!

RACH 3 IS SUPER DIFFICULT, and unless you are a really really great prodigy u can't play it after a year of playing the piano..

Being not the most difficult piece to play doesn't mean easy. Nobody said it was easy. Everyone said it was not the hardest piece, wich is true. Dimitri Sgouros played the Rach 3 at 13, and I think it was a pretty good performance. Rach 3 is indeed difficult, but quite far from being the hardest piece every written.

[rapmasterb]

Yeah no way is it even close to being the hardest.

I heard barry douglas playing the rachmaninov 3rd and i have to say it wasnt that great. It would have been about average. I was surprised at this because i am a  huge fan of barry douglas - his playing of the brahms concerti is out of this world.

[jeremyjchilds]

It is a hard peice to play. I can play a good amount of the 3rd movement, and much of the 1rst movement. I'm talking about the Rach 3. Anyway, you really should go see it.

Jeremy C and Jeremyjchilds are two entirely different people.


Let me be the first to say that I do not play the Rach 3...

[rob47]

I think Sean Bennet (the legendary) was the youngest to ever perform this piece?

sean bennet if you are reading this sorry for my criticisms last year on that one thread. I'm just jealous. 

and yes take kimuraparker's advice! learn it while you're young.

Sincerely,
Robocop47

[viking]

I spoke with Jackie backstage, and as he signed my copy of the music, he told me he learned the music when he was 16.  He said when he was 30 he went back and tried to relearn it but it was nearly impossible.  Learning it when your young is good advice.  He also told me to "take it one note at a time" 
SAM

[pianohopper]

yes, i have very large hands. i play a lot of liszt, so it really works your hands to prepare you for very difficult pieces. and i sort of am a prodigy. (can't even spell it) but thats because of the countless hours i spend each day trying to make myself better. the way i see it, there is no goal in music. it is continuous.

I think, Jeremy C., you are looking for a different forum.  "Pathological Liars Anonymous."

You have done nothing but brag from your first post.  You learned the fantasie-impromptu when you were 11? 

I have been looking at your posts, and they all smell the same -- suspiciously improbable.   I find it hard to believe that you can be learning the 2nd and 3rd concerto at the same time!  You played the fantasie-impromptu at 11?   And you also can play the Beethoven 3rd?  Which you learned in two weeks? 

And you have a ------ CD out?  Would you be kind enough to tell me where I can find/purchase this CD? 

Besides all this, you are self-taught?  Bullshit.  Please back up all your outrageous statements. 

[pianohopper]

P.S.  Mound and Viking --- you are both from Rochester?  So am I!   

[apion]

I'm beginning to think it's not a really hard piece after all, as compared to say a chopin etude.

Huh?  Rach3 is devilishly, fiendishly difficult to master.

[thierry13]

I think, Jeremy C., you are looking for a different forum.  "Pathological Liars Anonymous."

You have done nothing but brag from your first post.  You learned the fantasie-impromptu when you were 11? 

I have been looking at your posts, and they all smell the same -- suspiciously improbable.   I find it hard to believe that you can be learning the 2nd and 3rd concerto at the same time!  You played the fantasie-impromptu at 11?   And you also can play the Beethoven 3rd?  Which you learned in two weeks? 

And you have a ------ CD out?  Would you be kind enough to tell me where I can find/purchase this CD? 

Besides all this, you are self-taught?  Bullshit.  Please back up all your outrageous statements. 

OMG. please. There are like so many people who played so much harder pieces than FI when they were younger. I can't believe how skeptical you all are. What Jeremy says, improbable??? And I guess Sgouros didn't record the Rach 3 at 13, nor did Sean Benett ? Ho and I must suppose Liszt didn't transcribe a Beethoven quintet at sight at like 13 years old too. Ho yeah that's true, all we say about Liszt is strongly improabable, Liszt is impossible ! YOU are the bullcrap.

[pianohopper]

Come on now, Liszt is differrent because the man was a genius.

But Jeremy C., a self-taught prodigy?  More like self-proclaimed prodigy.  Thierry13, would you be willing to believe that there are 20,000 naturalized Chinese spies waiting to blow up America, without any proof?  Or are you the kind of person who believes in aliens?

[thierry13]

Depends on the factors and who is annoucing the event. And it is of a much much more bigger influence. Second... if we are "liars", and that you do not believe us, there is not much fun, and we know nobody believes us. Tough, since it is true, it is really cool to see that nobody believes you, because it's true! So it's really like Wow I didn't know I was that unbeliveable. Tough, if it isn't true ... you do not get much credit for what you say.

[shiftyoliver]

I must also say I find that a 13 year old playing the Rach 3 as highly improbable.

[pianohopper]

thierry13, I do not know exactly what you are trying to say. 

What I am trying to say is, how credible is Jeremy C.?  I want to see some proof: has he posted in the Audition Room?  No.  Has he ever told us where we can get a sample of his playing?  No. 

How willing are you to believe somebody who says:

I am sort of a prodigy.

I don't buy that.  It's like Kim Jong-Il saying, "I am the world's greatest golfer."

I learned the Beethoven concerto in just 2 weeks.

 

i was playing that when i was 11.

  He is referring to the fantasie-impromptu.  I am supposed to believe this when he says, "I was self-taught"? 

I don't think I'm being unreasonable.  I will rescind all my disbeliefs and comments if Jeremy C. can prove all of this.  But to me it seems like a lot of self-glorification and hollow bragging. 

[shiftyoliver]

Damnit, how do I delete my own reply.

[thierry13]

thierry13, I do not know exactly what you are trying to say. 

What I am trying to say is, how credible is Jeremy C.?  I want to see some proof: has he posted in the Audition Room?  No.  Has he ever told us where we can get a sample of his playing?  No. 

How willing are you to believe somebody who says:

I don't buy that.  It's like Kim Jong-Il saying, "I am the world's greatest golfer."
 
  He is referring to the fantasie-impromptu.  I am supposed to believe this when he says, "I was self-taught"? 

I don't think I'm being unreasonable.  I will rescind all my disbeliefs and comments if Jeremy C. can prove all of this.  But to me it seems like a lot of self-glorification and hollow bragging. 

Learning Beethoven's 3 in 2 weeks is an okay time, if you put the time in it. The fantaisie impromptu at 11 ... what's the problem ? Sgouros played Hungarian rhapsody when he was like 6 or 8 ... and it is way more difficult than fantaisie-impromptue. It is not improbable. It is rare. There is a difference.

[brewtality]

Learning Beethoven's 3 in 2 weeks is an okay time, if you put the time in it.

Sure mate! Not for us mere mortals.

[pianohopper]

Why are you still comparing this "Jeremy" to people like Dimitris Sgouros, Sean Bennett and LISZT!!!!!!  You are willing to accept Jeremy's tooting of his own horn, but you get angry at me when I am skeptical?  It is one thing for someone else to tell me, "this kid is a prodigy.  I've seen him play, he's fabulous."  It is another thing for Jeremy to go around saying himself that he is a prodigy.  It sounds to me like Mr. Jeremy just wants to make himself bigger by making others feel sub-par.  Which is very wrong. 

And what is the difference between rare and improbable?  Things are rare because they are improbable. 

Or maybe I am behind the times here.  It is now normal for 14 year olds to be playing the Rach3?  Self-taught, might I add.  I'm afraid the odds are very much against it. 

[llamaman]

If playing FI at age 11 normal, then Im about 5 years worth of study behind.

As for Jeremy .

BIG FAT LIAR

[BoliverAllmon]

If playing FI at age 11 normal, then Im about 5 years worth of study behind.

As for Jeremy .

BIG FAT LIAR

if playing FI at 11 is normal. I need to quit.

[ralessi]

yeah...im smelling the bullshit down here in Florida.  Fantasy impromptu at 11 is not THE BIGGEST of outrageous statements..because i have seen weird sh*t like that...but the Rach  2 and 3? hell...2 OR 3? and Beethoven 3? in 2 weeks? dont even try to convince me.  Its never happening...not until i have a videotape in my mailbox. sorry.....sh*t, iill be 19 this month and i have been playing for almost 16 years, I started the Rach 2 a few weeks ago and it was kicking my ass until i started to understand his style of playing...only cause i have played very little Rachmaninoff, but im sure that yo uhave recorded all the Preludes and Etudes Tableaux......when you were 10, so i shouldnt expect either of those concerti to be a burdon on you.  Im trying to look at how the hell you can physically play the Rach 3.  maybe SOME of the 1st movement with all the arpeggios..theres no way that you can reach octaves and huge chords with 8th and 16th notes within the chord, especially in the 3rd movement.  Its not PHYSICALLY possible.  well...you would REALLY have to be a freak of nature...in that case, you have a lot going for  you.  For christ's sake, you said Hungarian Rhapsody like its the name of a single piece.   And i could be way off..but i think it would be VERY difficult for a 6 or 8 year oold to play a Hungarian Rhapsody.  seeing as how he probably couldnt even reach the pedals...sorry if im being an ass but people like this really take me to another place. 

[chromatickler]

here's Nikolai Lugansky, recounting an eposide from when he was 15 years old, taken from an interview on his site https://lugansky.homestead.com/files/Russian_Thought_2_01.htm

Q: The climax of your appearances in Nantes was the Third Concerto of Rachmaninoff. What is your assessment of this devilishly difficult work?

I do not consider this concerto to be the most difficult, although learning it was actually quite difficult. But in my case, it happened that I worked at it like it was an emergency, and I learned it in three days. Tatiana Nikolayeva had said to me that there was a possibility of playing it in Scotland in three weeks. I had never played this concerto before, and when I learned it in three days, she did not believe me. And then afterwards it was revealed to me that the planned performance would not be held

[pianohopper]

For the last time, dammit, Jeremy C. is not Nikolai Lugansky.  He is not Dmitris Sgouros or Sean Bennett.  And he is CERTAINLY not anything like Liszt.  These are all amazing, professional, concert pianists who have dedicated their entire lives to being in the elite few. 

Nikolai Lugansky may have learned the Rach3 in three days.  But consider -- he probably practices 10, 12 hours a day.  Still an amazing accomplishment, but who besides a professional has the time to put that much time into it?

I wouldn't even believe that Jeremy C. is 14 if he weren't saying such immature things.

[thierry13]

I would like to remember you that Sean Benett actually came on this forum, and if he telled all is accomplishments without giving us his proofs, everyone would have telled him : LIAR! ***! YOU SUCK! GO AWAY! ...

[xvimbi]

For the sake of keeping pollution down, I finally have to say something:

1. There are people who were able to play Rach3 at age 13 (whatever "play" might mean in this context). Get over it!

2. What effect does it have when people claim that they can do this or that on forums such as this one? None, whatsoever. These discussions will not help any reader overcome any obstacles they might be having with their pieces at the moment, or make the world a better place. The only positive effect I can see that such a claim might provide is some kind of questionable motivation ("What, you can play Rach3 at age 13?? I'm gonna show you, I'll play the OC at age 15, and I'm gonna memorize it in two days!!).

So, instead of wasting your breath, the Internet's bandwidth and everybody else's time (because we have to make an effort to ignore this childish stuff), go out and help each other become better pianists by offering solutions to problems.

By the way: when I was ten, I could stand on my head, recite Homer's Odyssey, in Greek, play two games of chess, blindfolded, juggle four balls (quite difficult when standing on one's head), and whistle Mahler's First Symphony backwards, all at the same time!

What, you call me a big fat liar? You suck!