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Poll
Question: ** Hold the Note? or Play the CHORD Twice?/I think I'm playing it write, .. or am I?
Hold the Chorded Note? - 0 (0%)
Or PLay it twice 2x? Legato? - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 0

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Author Topic: <Chopin Mazurka Op. 7, No. 2: "Brain FART?" or is Chopin really Random? - Help!>  (Read 671 times)
pianoplayerstar
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« on: August 17, 2016, 11:55:32 PM »

Guests,

I think I've more than sight read the amazing Mazurka of Chopin's Op. 7, No. 2; now to Interpret it.

HOWEVER!

After doing, I'm thinking now whether I'm playing it properly.  
Example, in the 2nd Measure/Bar, the Bass Cleff/Left hand == Hold it? or play it 2x?.. Legato Style? (MY ANSWER:  pLAY IT TWICE.. unless any of you disagree for 'artistic' reasons?)

... but then as you begin the second part of the piece, is the left hand / Bass clef again played twice? or this time you hold it?

WHAT'S THE RULE ON THIS?  Can someone help me?  Or am I just thinking too much?

Sorry for such a basic question (for many of you).
pps
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piano sheet music of Mazurka
adodd81802
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« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2016, 08:49:46 AM »

Are you reading the staccato notes as tied rather than slurred? Possibly. Extract from Wiki

Portato
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Portato [porˈtaːto] (Italian, past participle of portare, "to carry"), French notes portées (Anon. n.d.), in music denotes a smooth, pulsing articulation and is often notated by adding dots under slur markings.


Portato is also known as articulated legato (Blood 2012). It is a bowing technique for stringed instruments (Anon. 2001), in which successive notes are gently re-articulated while being joined under a single continuing bow stroke. It achieves a kind of pulsation or undulation, rather than separating the notes. It has been notated in various ways. One early 19th century writer, Pierre Baillot (L’art du violon, Paris, 1834), gives two alternatives: a wavy line, and dots under a slur. Later in the century a third method became common: placing "legato" dashes (tenuto) under a slur (Wall 2001a). The notation with dots under slurs is ambiguous, because it is also used for very different bowings, including staccato and flying spiccato (Walls 2001a; Walls 2001b).

Currently, mezzo-staccato is sometimes indicated in words, by "mezzo-staccato" or "non-legato"; or can be shown by three graphic forms:

a slur that encompasses a phrase of staccato notes (the most common), or
a tenuto above a staccato mark (very often), or
a slur that encompasses a phrase of tenuto notes (less common) (Tsai 2008).
Portato is defined by some authorities as "the same as portamento" (Kennedy 1994).
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thirtytwo2020
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« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2016, 10:55:17 AM »

If Chopin wanted you to hold the left hand chords for two beats, he would have written half notes.
Or possibly written ties between all three voices.
The staccato dots would certainly not be there.

So the answer is play it 2x.
I am not sure what you are referring to regarding the second part, but yes, there is an octave there in the left hand which is tied to the first bar in the second section.

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keypeg
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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2016, 04:42:32 PM »

I remember an explanation in general that Chopin, a pianist, often wrote music in terms of how it is played physically, more than in terms of sound.  What I mean is that you use certain motions to produce a given sound, and he might write the motions.  So for example staccato marks when pedal has been written in underneath.  Obviously if the pedal is down, you cannot produce a staccato sound - and in a lot of earlier music, the symbols designated the desired sound.  But if you hold the pedal and physically play the notes staccato, you'd get a particular effect that Chopin was after, that as a pianist he knew you'd get.  Something like that.  Would that make sense here?
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adodd81802
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« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2016, 05:10:59 PM »

I remember an explanation in general that Chopin, a pianist, often wrote music in terms of how it is played physically, more than in terms of sound.  What I mean is that you use certain motions to produce a given sound, and he might write the motions.  So for example staccato marks when pedal has been written in underneath.  Obviously if the pedal is down, you cannot produce a staccato sound - and in a lot of earlier music, the symbols designated the desired sound.  But if you hold the pedal and physically play the notes staccato, you'd get a particular effect that Chopin was after, that as a pianist he knew you'd get.  Something like that.  Would that make sense here?

It's how you know that Chopin was a genius.
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pianoplayerstar
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« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2016, 07:21:20 PM »

Page 2/2, bar 2 & 3:  they don't have Staccato (left hand/bass cleff)===> you get a quarter note.. then another quarter note 'tied' to the next Measure 3.

Since they're NOT staccato,

   Do you place the left hand chord twice? or thrice?

ANSWER: 2x (Physical Action).....

any of you disagree with this 2x for 'artistic' reasons or otherwise?

See attachment here.

* MazOp7No2.pdf (4003.48 KB - downloaded 12 times.)
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iansinclair
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« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2016, 08:57:11 PM »

adodd81802 has it right -- it's portato.  Which, in this case, simply means a slight break between the two chords.  How slight the break is, however, is very much a matter of taste and style, and is one of those things which distinguishes musicians from each other.

And creates fights on piano forums.

Also, whether the two chords are accented equally is a matter of taste and style.  It's worth keeping in mind in both regards that a mazurka is a dance, and a rather lively, if often also somewhat stately, dance.  It is emphatically not a waltz!
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Ian
adodd81802
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« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2016, 07:51:36 AM »

Page 2/2, bar 2 & 3:  they don't have Staccato (left hand/bass cleff)===> you get a quarter note.. then another quarter note 'tied' to the next Measure 3.

Since they're NOT staccato,

   Do you place the left hand chord twice? or thrice?

ANSWER: 2x (Physical Action).....

any of you disagree with this 2x for 'artistic' reasons or otherwise?

See attachment here.

... It's twice. This is basic music theory. There may be variations in scores in which this may be played 3 times if the score suggests, I have heard different versions of the Nocturne op.9 no.2 for example, but based off the score you've shown it's twice, the Crotchets are tied.

I think you should ask yourself, in these situations, if there was other ways to play it, are there other ways to more accurately write it in THAT way of playing, e.g playing it 3 times. If there are more accurate ways and it WASN'T written like that, it's not meant to be played liked that.

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