Who is the most omipotent classical pianist still living?

[mrcreosote]

EDIT:  I changed the title from "popular" to "omnipotent - if Horowitz was alive, he would be the answer.

I was doing some Google Trends which is more like the rate of popularity.

Lang Lang was head and shoulders above everyone else

Martha Argerich was a very strong 2nd.

Horowitz was lower.

All the above were decreasing

Valentina Lisitsa peaked and is slowly decreasing

The only 2 increasers I found were Yuja Wang and Khatia Buniatishvili

When Horowitz was alive, he was the Supreme, the Icon.

As far as still living, I think Martha is the Grand Master but Yuja may be the next top biller.

I also think that there may be waning interest in classical piano unfortunately.

[ahinton]

EDIT:  I changed the title from "popular" to "omnipotent - if Horowitz was alive, he would be the answer.

I was doing some Google Trends which is more like the rate of popularity.

Lang Lang was head and shoulders above everyone else

Martha Argerich was a very strong 2nd.

Horowitz was lower.

All the above were decreasing

Valentina Lisitsa peaked and is slowly decreasing

The only 2 increasers I found were Yuja Wang and Khatia Buniatishvili

When Horowitz was alive, he was the Supreme, the Icon.

As far as still living, I think Martha is the Grand Master but Yuja may be the next top biller.

I also think that there may be waning interest in classical piano unfortunately.

"Omnipotent"? What a strange notion in terms of pianists! - albeit arguably not quite so strange as that of Martha Argerich being second to Lang Lang in anything...

Best,

Alistair

[stevensk]

How old are you? 

[adodd81802]

**EDIT 2**

As suggested by Ahinton If Liberace was still alive, (covering the same era as Horowitz) I wonder if he would have been bigger? He had a TV show spanning nearly 2 decades and - (wiki) 'The show was so popular with his mostly female television audience, he drew over 30 million viewers at any one time and received 10,000 fan letters per week'

In terms of appeal, I feel like he was the Modern Liszt. In terms of technical ability, I never took him seriously from what I've seen.

*EDIT* I see you put still living but You did mention Horowitz sooo

[ahinton]

How old are you?

The OP's profile shows "N/A" for age so it would seem doubtful that he'd declare it in a post.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

I see you put still living but You did mention Horowitz sooo

But he did add the caveat "if Horowitz was alive"...

Best,

Alistair

[dogperson]

"Omnipotent"? What a strange notion in terms of pianists! - albeit arguably not quite so strange as that of Martha Argerich being second to Lang Lang in anything...

Best,

Alistair

Omnipotent is, indeed, a strange term.  If you asked any of these performers if they are 'omnipotent', the answer would be NO.  They all would consider pianism to be a life-long learning.  This is just another one of those 'who is the best/most popular' but masked in sheep's clothing.  To equate popularity with omniscience makes no sense.

[mrcreosote]

I'm 64 years old.  EDIT:  Thinking about this, why would it have any bearing on this question since I said living?  
_______________________
As far as using the word, I'd say it fits Horowitz like a glove:

om·nip·o·tent
ˌämˈnipəd(ə)nt/
adjective
adjective: omnipotent

    1.
    (of a deity) having unlimited power; able to do anything.
    synonyms:   all-powerful, almighty, supreme, preeminent, most high; More
    invincible, unconquerable
    "the worship of omnipotent deities"
        having ultimate power and influence.
        "an omnipotent sovereign"

noun
noun: omnipotent; plural noun: omnipotents

    1.
    God.
________________________

EDIT:  COMMENT on  POPULARITY

What I'm not after is P, but genuine mastery of the craft.  It is sad to hear what simply have to be lay people, who truly love Horowiz, but are not able enough to hear wrong notes.  This gets even murkier when it comes to interpretations:  Lang Lang is a perfect example and I'll leave this comment at that.
________________________-

It is interesting that someone brought up Liberace.  Interesting because Lib vs H is exactly that what I was trying to get at - can you believe Ricki Scaggs opening for The Dixie Chics?  Popular in many cases has nothing to do with "omnipotence."

I've watched L play with great scrutiny as well as H and will leave it at L was P and H was O.

Which brings me to LL.  Oh yes, he is P (definitely a Rock Star) and while I've never made the association, he is definitely playing the Liberace-card - albeit a strict classical one.

But LL is definitely not a "god."  H was God.

So that leaves Martha.  And perhaps Yuja to emerge as the next torch bearer in years to come.

Pollini is a mention, but one of the credentials of this position, God that is, is a monumental repertoire - which Yuja is in good standing.
____________________

I put H on the Throne, then Rachmaninov, then Rubenstein and Cliburn but now the vacuum is deafening.

So that leaves Martha.

But who am I missing or over looking?

NOTE:  also Titan might be a better word that God, but that is moot.

________________________________

EDIT:  REGARDING CZIFFRA:

When it comes to Liszt The Juggernaut, Cziffra stands unchallenged.  His Grand Galop Chromatique is a marvel of Human Accomplishment, played at break neck speed he still shows bursts of even more speed with perfection and strength.  And his Flight of the Bumblebee of course.  But then his Heroic is stillborn compared to the Young Rubenstein's.  And how big was his repertoire, was it limited?  Cziffra in his element is Supreme and for that, he must be recognized and mentioned when any list of all-time-masters is compiled.  NOTE:  People have commented that his life was most difficult and that it is a marvel in itself, that he accomplished what he did. 

[visitor]

until recently i would have put Earl Wild, if we are 'if still alive' then my vote goes to him  (though perhaps we can also consider Hoffman and Alberto Jonas among others from the past), but he's/they've left us so the void is vast.
My vote for now stays with Yeol Eum Son on the living/young end.


Yeol Eum Son > Yuja Wang. Hands down. Any day.

[mrcreosote]

Yeol Eum Son is a DOA flat line on Google Trends regarding internet searches.  

I checked her out playing Petrushka, but I think Buniatishvili is operating at a different level.  In fact, the 'tish has been continuously slammed for simply playing too fast.  Her Precipitato is insane beyond all measure.  And her der Erlkonig is the only one that does not go along with Liszt's smooth syrupy middle part - the original in triplets is more exciting even as the original accompaniment (Maria Fuller).  And yes, she makes a pass at Cziffra's Grand Galop but just doesn't have the technical depth although perhaps the best attempt so far.

If you want to see the curves, go to https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=%2Fm%2F0g04z9,%2Fm%2F0127gn,%2Fm%2F0f19vp,Yeol Eum Son,%2Fm%2F0ds41

[visitor]

Yeol Eum Son is a DOA flat line on Google Trends regarding internet searches.  

If you want to see the curves, go to https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=%2Fm%2F0g04z9,%2Fm%2F0127gn,%2Fm%2F0f19vp,Yeol Eum Son,%2Fm%2F0ds41

what does a google search trend have to do with how she plays? I realize your initial premise was google trends, but you also said living, but then changed and included Horowitz...  she isn't marketed similarly and  a 'sleeper' of a pianist.   opinions or lack thereof from the masses is not an indicator of her incredible talent and artist.  less popular than Yuja, sure, less popular than a bunch of pianists. But she's better.

just my opinion, i didn't state to try and convince others, just to state.  interesting topic though. thanks for sharing 

[mrcreosote]

The Google Trend is the only metric out there.  Personal Opinion, Polls and Lists are all biased. 

I assure you, if there is a new up-and-coming Titan out there, it will show up on Google Trends.

And yes, Trend is the Rate of Searching which has nothing to do with the intergral of total searches.  Even Horowitz to this day outsearches most of the others.

And then LL is the top curve and I don't even know if he is a serious musician - I think he is a show businessman making every attempt to promote himself outside of the staid classical circles.  And yes, he is very successful at that.  (Actually Yuja is playing that card, but it's strictly wardrobe which he keeps independent of her craft - she gets a Well Played.)

[visitor]

The Google Trend is the only metric out there.  Personal Opinion, Polls and Lists are all biased. 

I assure you, if there is a new up-and-coming Titan out there, it will show up on Google Trends.

And yes, Trend is the Rate of Searching which has nothing to do with the intergral of total searches.  Even Horowitz to this day outsearches most of the others.

And then LL is the top curve and I don't even know if he is a serious musician - I think he is a show businessman making every attempt to promote himself outside of the staid classical circles.  And yes, he is very successful at that.  (Actually Yuja is playing that card, but it's strictly wardrobe which he keeps independent of her craft - she gets a Well Played.)

yes i am biased.  and i'm an expert on my opinion 

[octave_revolutionary]

"Omnipotent"? What a strange notion in terms of pianists! - albeit arguably not quite so strange as that of Martha Argerich being second to Lang Lang in anything...

Best,

Alistair

I'll certainly second that!! 

[mrcreosote]

Absolutely!  We all have the ones that are our favorites.  It boils down to who do you like.  For me it is all about how they make me respond emotionally and yes, Yuja's dresses (or lack thereof) are all part of the equation.

I was thinking of another metric:  How well they would pack Carnegie Hall in NYC.  First the natives are savvy but I'm sure also love Broadway and Lang Lang (!)

It's just that there is an impending vacuum out there.  When Martha is gone we'll have to watch the fledglings and see who emerges.

At least we have all the marvelous recordings of those recently passed, but it would be so fantastic if there was something left of those older.  Even Prokofiev.  Or Anton R.  And what would we pay to hear or watch Liszt or Chopin?  Arthur said "..years of my life."

[octave_revolutionary]

I'm 64 years old.  EDIT:  Thinking about this, why would it have any bearing on this question since I said living?  
_______________________

But LL is definitely not a "god."  H was God.
 

To the violinist Itzhak Perlman, Jascha Heifetz was simply "God".


It's sad to think how detatched from reality musicians and music fans can become. As much as I  venerate both Horowitz and Heifetz and love their recordings, please don't call them "God". I mean, you can idolize them  , or call them "superhuman" or "supermen" -nothing wrong in that- but don't put them on a pedestal with gods or supernatural beings, whether such beings exist or not. They after all, were just human.

[mrcreosote]

EDIT:  FYI on Google Trends:  Sergei Rachmaninoff (Pianist) and Liszt (Composer) are equivalent on Google Trends and dwarf Lang Lang's curve.  Chopin (Composer) crushes R and L.  Beethoven kills Chopin but Mozart tops Beethoven by a bit and Back slams Beethoven/Mozart.
__________________


Well, I didn't mean God literally.

I'm talking who is currently standing on the center of The Podium at the end of the competition - or who is currently at the top of the food chain - pecking order - .

I would be interesting to hear who the young talents (do well in piano competitions) respect or found influential.  

I still can't get over Ligeti referencing Schumann.  I've been trying for a week now to find a single piece of piano music of his that connects with me.  So far, it leaves me unmoved and feels formulaic - like he does something, I understand it musically, but it makes no sense other than inform.

And then here is Ligeti himself.  Trying to find a single piece or just a portion that I like.... I love outrageous/shocking stuff when I get asked to play, but so far nothing, but...   Devil's Staircase is good to me for about 60 seconds - after than, I'm bored.  I hate to compare it to punk rock tunes - 30 seconds and they're done.  60 seconds and the crowd is throwing stuff at them.  Yuja does one of his Etudes but after 10% of it's 5 minute length it feels monotonous and I'm bored.

Right now I'm infatuated with Prokofiev.

[jeffok]

Maybe I missed something, but I don't think anyone's mentioned Marc-Andre Hamelin yet in this thread. I would have thought that he would be pretty high on a list of current pianists. I've heard little from him that wasn't superb. I know he hates to be called a super-virtuoso, so I'll avoid that and just say he has a technique that allows him to take the music wherever he thinks it should go. A good example is the way he "plays with"  the 2nd and 3rd of Liszt's Paganini Etudes.

I hope I'm old enough (59) and wise enough to not try and claim that anyone is the "greatest living" or "greatest ever" pianist. So if anyone reading this hates Hamelin's playing, that's just fine with me. Vive la difference. Still I think he's a major figure and believe that something like his recording of the Scriabin Sonatas will turn out to be influential on future generations of pianists.

best wishes,
jeff ok

[mrcreosote]

There are just so many genuine virtuosos of this era, and while I make my rounds listening to as many as possible, I wonder (maybe this is the way to frame the question) who will receive top mention 100-200 years from now.  The list in the early era of Beethoven to Liszt has nowhere the number of mentions for the current era - after some 100's of years, the jury is in.  For now the jury is still out for the current crop.

Here is an excellent opinion of the current state of affairs:  Post #4 of https://www.talkclassical.com/7204-greatest-pianist-all-time.html - #4 is presented below:

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    Ludwig Van Beethoven was surely a great pianist, but certainly not THE greatest.

    The problem with the general question "Who is the greatest _ of all time?" is that the standards for eras over time are all different. For example, Paganini was the violin god of his day, but if you put him in our day, he would be considered a super-virtuoso hack.

    Another thing to consider is that the ideals of pianism have changed radically especially between the 18th-19th centuries, and 19th-20th centuries. The second of these movements showed a drastic shift from romantic pianism to intellectual pianism. The romantics allowed for loose rhythm (excessive rubato), unfaithfulness to the score, personal embellishment (Liszt would only play the piece as written when he first sight-read it), and other things that would be considered unacceptable in this day. Moreover, concert transcriptions , paraphrases, and salon music (Liszt, Thalberg, Gottshalk, Henselt) were preferred over much of the standard repertoire we see today (of course Chopin got ridiciously popular between the 19th-20th centuries though- I was thinking more on the line of Haydn, Mozart, Liszt's good stuff, a lot of Beethoven, Schubert...).

    Of course there have always been exceptions. Clara Schumann, Mendelssohn, and Ignaz Moscheles despised the romantic era OF PIANISM and worked to counter-act it. Romantic pianists dominated the 1st third of the 20th century and continued to work into it: We see Liszt and Leschetizky such as Paderewski, Rosenthal, Friedman, and Moseiwitsch as well as others: Cortot, Horowitz (who died in 1989, well into the era of the modern school.)

    And then we have more problems. First of all, the credibility of our "original" sources. Adolf von Henselt has always been considered one of the greatest pianists of all time, yet he was too nervous to perform in public. This claim is only credited by a few primary sources, but many experts believe that it is enough to be credible. However,we all know too well that primary sources cannot be trusted, especially in the form of romantic inventions.

    A fact like this can be assumed only after there is a substantial amount of evidence for it, and there are some pianists who can claim this: Clementi, Mozart, Beethoven, Hummel, Kalbrenner, Moscheles, Liszt, Mendelssohn, Chopin, Thalberg, Henselt, Herz, C.Schumann, Anton Rubinstein, Tausig, D'Albert, Godowsky, Busoni, Hofmann, Rachmaninoff, Cortot, Moseiwitsch, Artur Rubinstein, Richter, Horowitz...

    It is all very subjective: Pianists like Dreyshock had amazing technical abilities (Rev. etude with left hand octaves) but were considered shallow even in their day; Chopin did not have sufficient power yet he had a handful of qualities that even Liszt envied; Alkan could of well been a great pianist, but he was eccentric, and ignored in his day; Anton Rubinstein, much like Beethoven, had demonic power and perhaps unmatched expression...

    The general consensus seems to be Franz Liszt, and it is almost hard to disagree with that.

[lostinidlewonder]

It's Richard Clayderman if we going in terms of financial success hehe

[ahinton]

It's Richard Clayderman if we going in terms of financial success hehe

I hadn't realised that he was still going but evidently he is. I shall look out for his new recording of Barraqué's Sonata when it comes out.

Best,

Alistair

[ignaceii]

Strange and kind of stupid question .
Omnipotent might suggest being home in all styles.
That is to begin an irrelevant question.
But most of all. The names you list make my hair rise.

I don't think you know the real pianists. The great competition winners who have to prove their omnipotence. Chinese find these not necessary. Cause they would fail.
Ashkenazy, Tsjaikovski , Queen Elisabeth winner, and 2nd Chopin is a real omnipotent.
And to your surprise Charles Rosen a genius.

What you found on the net is bullshit. George Li is even better.
But apart from some exceptions, Russians and Europeans take the prizes and right so.
They are the most classical.

A disgrace to list Yuyu Lang , not Paul Lewis, Dubargue, Bozhanov, a excentric genius and difficult. But worth 1000 Langs.

So my question is raised.
The enormous output of Charles Rosen, more known as musicologist as a pianist.
He deserved far more esteem listening to his recordings.... Omnipotent.