Piano Forum



Enfant Terrible or Childishly Innocent? – Prokofiev’s Complete Piano Works Now on Piano Street
In our ongoing quest to provide you with a complete library of classical piano sheet music, the works of Sergey Prokofiev have been our most recent focus. As one of the most distinctive and original musical voices from the first half of the 20th century, Prokofiev has an obvious spot on the list of top piano composers. Welcome to the intense, humorous, and lyrical universe of his complete Sonatas, Concertos, character pieces, and transcriptions! Read more >>

Topic: Chopin, study op 10 no 2 - help  (Read 2626 times)

Offline rmbarbosa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
Chopin, study op 10 no 2 - help
on: November 16, 2016, 06:00:25 PM
Hi!
I would be very gratefull if you could help me in this doubt:
To play this study Cortot gives some preliminary exercises, namely thr cromatic scale played with
the fingers 3-4-3,  4-5-4 and 5-4-5.
He says: "the crossing of a lower finger either over or under an upper one should be prepared according to the principle of an absolute legato...  the fingers rather gliding over the keys than actually striking them..with a perfect steadiness of the hand".
I tried but at least for me to attain a "perfect steadiness of the hand" while I pass my 5 over or under my 4º finger, for example, is quite impossible in absolute legato, without a rotation of my hand. The only way to keep my hand steady is to slide from the left to the right or from the right to the left. as we do in the passing "over" of the thumb in the scales. But if I do so then I cant achieve an absolute legato... How to do this?
Another problem: when ascending it is easy to play legato passing over, but when descending the only "decent" way is passing over in same keys and under in other keys.
Thank you for your help
Rui
Sign up for a Piano Street membership to download this piano score.
Sign up for FREE! >>

Offline adodd81802

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1114
Re: Chopin, study op 10 no 2 - help
Reply #1 on: November 16, 2016, 08:01:48 PM
What are your thoughts on Cortot editions of anything?

Have you used Cortot before? I have looked through a lot of his Chopin pieces and exercises, and i'm not sure i'm not that keen on them, especially in the use of Chopin Etudes... Maybe i'm wrong, but particularly my issue is it feels like he creates the exercises for the fingering that he wants to use which is often drastically different from the conventional fingerings.

Many have commented he changed the fingering to make the fingers do more work then what would usually be required with better technique, what do you think?

I must admit however, I do find in this etude, bringing the 5th under 4th on white notes very difficult, I don't think I have long enough fingers to pull that off... maybe just me.

"England is a country of pianos, they are everywhere."

Offline mjames

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2553
Re: Chopin, study op 10 no 2 - help
Reply #2 on: November 16, 2016, 08:07:41 PM
Ignore his exercises, ignore his fingerings, ignore his advice on technique, get a different edition, and forget that his even exist in the first place. If you follow this advice then your learning process will improve drastically.

You're welcome.

Offline vaniii

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
Re: Chopin, study op 10 no 2 - help
Reply #3 on: November 16, 2016, 08:19:05 PM
Buy Paderewski edition; it's expensive but exceptionally clear and the authority on things Chopin.

Schirmer edition is more accessible if only for more markings on the page, giveing some insight into interpretation.

Peters edition is more accessible full stop. The acceptable tempo marking is more lenient, meaning a performable rendition would be closer to you.

I don't trust Cortot; it feels like a miracle cure.  So much of it is lost in transition from the mind of the author to written on the page; there is a subtext here that would be lost without a teacher and simply practicing chromatic scales with unconventional fingering.

All these exercises are great, but the problem here is that you are still trying to play music when you should be figuring out the geography of the keyboard, what your hands have to do to traverse it; all this, in a relaxed manner.

The best piece of advice I was given, was to "play in slow motion, exactly what I need to do 'at speed' ...", it does not matter the tempo of the piece, the physical actions should remain the same.

Relaxed.

Keep this slow, and don't use pedal until you can create a finger legato.  Don't cling to the chordal strikes (play them staccatissimo), they are almost flippant.  When you do eventually add the pedal in, this will take care of the chords.

Offline brogers70

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1603
Re: Chopin, study op 10 no 2 - help
Reply #4 on: November 16, 2016, 10:42:18 PM
I've looked at Cortot and, except for a few alternate fingerings that I liked for Op. 25/6, did not find his exercises helpful at all.

Offline adodd81802

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1114
Re: Chopin, study op 10 no 2 - help
Reply #5 on: November 17, 2016, 09:55:16 AM
I'm glad there is a consensus on this RE Cortot (no offence to the man.)

Interestingly Paul Barton is a very good pianist, and I have heard on many of his videos how he advocates some Cortot exercises, particularly in this Etude.

Nevertheless! go the fingerings Chopin intended (one of the few pieces he wrote the fingerings for every note I believe)

And regarding exercises, i'd just work on the chromatic scale alone with 3/4/5, as ultimately that needs to be more than proficient to do it with the accompliment notes.
"England is a country of pianos, they are everywhere."
For more information about this topic, click search below!
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert