Piano Forum Impressions (and some other thoughts)

[quixoticcafe]

Hi Group,

As a newbie I just wanted to say I have done a lot of reading here. There are a lot of amazing people here. I have enjoyed posts by Bernhard, EHPianist, Anda (to name but three members) among others. I have enjoyed the scholarship and discussions. There are some wonderful people here. Nevertheless, I am also reading a lot of bull**** from those living in some sort of fantasy world not unlike an internet chat room where people lie about qualifications, physical attributes, age, and the like. There seems to be an aweful lot of professional jealousy and just unbelievable stories regarding pieces learned and memoried in x amount of days or repertoire to name but two things.

The fact of the matter is that classical musicians are living in very precarious times. Attendance at concerts and recitals is at a record low. Symphony orchestras and opera companies are folding left and right. Music departments across the country are reducing staff and even eliminating departments--and the list goes on and on!

In the light of all of this, each of us plays a part to perserve out art in his or her own way. Often times people cry that life is unfair--and it is! I think about all the children in America who play basketball (millions) and think they are all going to be on an NBA team. This is as realistic as every pianist thinking they will have a concert career. Some do, the majority do not.  Jealous of somebody's technique? Well maybe you are NOT WILLING to do the work required to acheive what that person did. The bottom line is that a life in music can be rewarding, and at time even fun, but it is only through DISCIPLINE that there
is total freedom. There will be hours of boredom and hardship along the way. Lots of moments of pure sweat and blood, but in the end those moments of artistic acheivement make it all worthwhile.

Therefore, I charge all of you to realize that we are in a war to preserve classical music and all of its glories. I don't have time to be jealous of others; I am too busy practicing and doing my small part to continue this great cycle of music making. I hope you are too!

What are your thoughts?

Michael

(..ok I am off my soapbox now... )

[Glissando]

----

[ehpianist]

Well, we all know that no one can beat my playing, memorizing, sightreading and overall musicianship skills so the subjet is moot..  (just kidding!)

Honestly, I pay no attention to posts where people extoll their virtues as musicians.

The people we need to impress don't attend this forum. 

Thanks for reading my posts.  I have also enjoyed Bernhards and Anda's.

Elena
https://www.pianofourhands.com

[janice]

quixoticcafe, I guess that I don't understand the point of your post.  Is there a question here?

btw--I know that there is alot of "goofiness" in our posts, but I feel that we keep that in the appropriate categores, like "Anything but piano".  Plus, may of us know each other from our chats.  So we kind of "rib" each other!

[jazzyprof]

Therefore, I charge all of you to realize that we are in a war to preserve classical music and all of its glories.

Nils, would you kindly move this offensive thread to the "War Fighting" section?  I am a performer not a warrior.

[donjuan]

Nils, would you kindly move this offensive thread to the "War Fighting" section?  I am a performer not a warrior.

agreed.

quixoticcafe, I really dont know what you are trying to get at... I make music.  I dont "preserve" anything that wouldnt exist otherwise.  You almost make it sound like we are hippies rallying outside parliament to legalize marijuana.

Lots of moments of pure sweat and blood, but in the end those moments of artistic acheivement make it all worthwhile.

blood?? LOL man, that's the funniest thing Ive heard all week  thanks youve made my day!!  No more Gladiator movies for you!  Music shouldnt involve blood..

We are not living in precarious times.. it sounds like you are in music to make money rather than for the music.  Perhaps you had better go into business where your football coach locker room speeches are better suited.

Seriously, I cant stop laughing!!  ..haha....blood..

donjuan

[Motrax]

Noted.

  

[puma]

I think the sweat and blood phrase was just that - a metaphor to describe the hard work all pianists, all artists, have to endure to create that perfect moment they are striving for.  I didn't read a war connotation in there...

[sirpazhan]

more like Blood, Sweat, and Tears... 

[jazzyprof]

I think the sweat and blood phrase was just that - a metaphor to describe the hard work all pianists, all artists, have to endure to create that perfect moment they are striving for. 

Omigod, enough already!!!  Y'all are too bloody serious. 

[Brian Healey]

Michael, I guess I'm confused. Could you perhaps clarify a little? Each paragraph in your post seemed to go in a different direction. You start off with an argument aimed at people (I guess in this forum) with holier-than-thou attitudes, then you talk about losing music programs and symphonies, then you launched into your argument that music, like sports (you mentioned the NBA), is very competitive. I'm just wondering where the connection is, since you seem to be arguing a multitude of issues at once.

Don't take this the wrong way. I'm interested in what you have to say, otherwise I wouldn't have replied, but I think there would be a better platform for discussion if you pinpointed your thoughts a little more.

Ramma-Lamma-Ding-Dong,
Bri

[ted]

quixoticcafe:

Well then, I've certainly missed the bus! I don't have any sense of striving or fighting at all, and I'm certainly not concerned with impressing anybody on or off the forum. I'm neither pianist nor musician in most of the accepted senses of the words and have never pretended otherwise. Creating sound at the piano just makes me feel good and has done so since I was very young. What other people think of it neither interests nor concerns me.

Nonetheless, having developed in virtual musical isolation all my life, I always enjoy reading what music means to other people because, aside from forums like this I don't know any musicians or pianists personally and attend no concerts. Therefore forums, and the internet generally, give me valuable insights into how others think. Overall, I think there is a lot more sense than nonsense written in the posts here.  

[quixoticcafe]

Dear Group,

1000 pardons to anybody I have may offended. That was NOT my intention. I guess I am very concerned about the classical music scene. I just feel that we can all do our part as musicians and teachers to perserve it. That's all. Sometimes one can get so wrapped up with minutia that one forgets the bigger picture. It bothers me, for example, that orchestras and opera companies are folding and all the other things I cited.  Does it bother you? Wondering what is the fate of classical music... and just saying that we all have a share in its continution or demise.

Peace

Michael

P.S. I will remember to take my medication before posting another thread.   j/k   

[ted]

I can see no diminution of interest in classical music in the general population. Indeed, I venture to say that both knowledge and private playing of classical music are much more common than when I was a child. In those days people interested in classical music were frequently ridiculed as sissies or snobs. I just don't see this happening any more; classical music is now an acceptable and laudable field of interest.

It may well be that a professional saturation point is being reached as far as orchestras, operatic companies, pianists and the like are concerned. However, at the amateur level and in the home, modern technology and the internet have brought any music, anywhere in the world, within the hearing of all. Many sites allow sampling of CD tracks and even relatively little known works can be ordered at once and delivered within a week. Large stores have bin upon bin of recordings of classical works and these CDs appear on the shelves in people's lounges with a frequency quite different to the sparse and specialised LP collections of minority classical enthusiasts of my childhood.

Classical music will always be loved and, as I see it, its audience is growing and crossing international and cultural boundaries in ways impossible to envisage fifty years ago. Simultaneously, we have non-European classical music of Asia and other places influencing Western musical thought via the same channels.

So no, I cannot agree that the situation with regard to classical music is worsening. The most musical nation is not that which spends the most on superstars, concerts, operas and spectaculars. Surely it is that in which Beethoven, Chopin, and the rest, including the modern masters, are frequent and welcome guests in the home - either via performance or through recordings. In this sense I can really see little to worry about.

You may be quite right as far as the economic and social modes of transmission of classical music are concerned.  These are changing, as are all modes of artistic communication in the modern world. But I conjecture that while some of the old modes of performance and education may slowly disintegrate, the underlying power of classical music in general consciousness will always live as long as we have ears and brains - and it's the underlying power that counts in the end.

[steve]

Jealous of somebody's technique?...

What are your thoughts?

Pianist envy! 

[shasta]

Pianist envy! 

(Piano) size doesn't matter.  It's how you use it.   

[mound]

I am the greatest pianist whom has ever, or will ever live.

end of story.

 

[Brian Healey]

(Piano) size doesn't matter.  It's how you use it.

That's something that all people with small pianos say that just isn't true

Snarf,
Bri

[Tash]

I am the greatest pianist whom has ever, or will ever live.

end of story.

 

ah i don't think so, you are competing with me, queen of the piano!

*goes and plays the fantasie-impromptu way too fast with no acknowledgment of dynamics or any other markings and flawed technique, thinking this is the greatest performance of the piece of all time*
 

[rlefebvr]

ah i don't think so, you are competing with me, queen of the piano!

*goes and plays the fantasie-impromptu way too fast with no acknowledgment of dynamics or any other markings and flawed technique, thinking this is the greatest performance of the piece of all time*
 

Legends in their own minds.....


 

Clint Eastwood by the way for all you diaper kids out there.


A lollipop if you can name the movie.

[janice]

more like Blood, Sweat, and Tears... 

hey, I remember them!!  Blood,Sweat & Tears was the name of a hippie-like rock group during the 70's (it wasn't 60's, I'm sure, cuz I was born in the 60's)

(sorry, didn't mean to get off the subject)

[shasta]

That's something that all people with small pianos say that just isn't true

Snarf,
Bri

I don't have a piano anyway.  I'm a woman.   

*frantically dusts off old college psych 101 textbook for Freud's "females and piano-envy" theories*

[dinosaurtales]

(Piano) size doesn't matter.  It's how you use it.   

Hate to say it, but when it comes to PIANOS  (a-HEM!) size does matter!

[cziffra]

 

It bothers me, for example, that orchestras and opera companies are folding and all the other things I cited.  Does it bother you? Wondering what is the fate of classical music... and just saying that we all have a share in its continution or demise.

We've gotta watch out for rampant generalising, it's becoming an epidemic! everyone's doing it all the time!
This is a shame since it usually emphasises only one set of relatively small-scale statistics when a similarly convincing report of the totally opposite effect could be esaily realised by focusing on different evidence.  I've read articles (on the same page sometimes) one citing 3 or 4 symphony orchestras that went backrupt, "conclusively" proving that classical music is going down the tube, the other citing 3 or 4 symphony orchestras that are going spectacularly well and making increasing profits each year.  the point is, these "trends" are not really valid.  If someone looked at the financial performance of every symphony orchestra across the entire world, for the past ten years, it would probably mean something. 

[shasta]

Hate to say it, but when it comes to PIANOS  (a-HEM!) size does matter!

Piano size doesn't matter.  It's how you use your hands.     

[Bob]

Everything matters... the piano, the manufacturer, the hall, the tuner.... I really hope I'm still talking about pianos....

back to the topic....

Welcome to the forum, Michael! 

*hopes he's not talking me.*  I try to keep my bs in the 'Anything but Piano area'  There are some interesting things that appear in there (Tash's drawings) so I don't mind lots of fluff.  It takes a lot of garbage to produce one gem of an idea.  I do think it can go a bit far though.  PW has a lot of it, and many brief responses that are fluff.  I like seeing other sides of member's personalities though.  It's interesting to see what else piano people are involved in or think about.

Blood, sweat, and tears -- I agree.  It takes a huge committment to produce things.  Much effort, much strain, much stress.

I do agree on the idea of being at war.  Music is competing with everything else for people's time and attention.  Winning the hearts and minds of the people who don't know music much or the students -- Music competes for people.  The more people involved, the better.  Aren't piano teachers (ie music) competing for their students' time?  esp those students that are involved in everything.  The more the teacher can impress the student, the more that student will love music and spend time it, the better that is for music itself.  I want that student to choose to do music over other things, like sports .  In that way, I am competing with all the sports teachers.

Music is also competing within itself -- Pop music v Classical.  Even all the areas of just one category of classical music.

[buddy]

everyone here seems to be a good musician, has great input...I enjoy reading all the posts.

What makes you happy other than the piano?  Bernhard?...what else do you do?  I am sure all you talented people have some other interests, even if minor, what are they?  Are any of you athletic?  So interested in what else interests you....

[lostinidlewonder]

Nevertheless, I am also reading a lot of bull**** from those living in some sort of fantasy world not unlike an internet chat room where people lie about qualifications, physical attributes, age, and the like. There seems to be an aweful lot of professional jealousy and just unbelievable stories regarding pieces learned and memoried in x amount of days or repertoire to name but two things.

I'd like to hear an example of a place where these things don't happen. It happens everywhere, but i reckon we have to realise we're not here to fool anyone. Maybe we can fool a few people, but is it realy worth it? When i hear self indulgent rubbish which doesnt have a point i just forget i read it. Unless bringing it up has a point i dont let it affect me, why should i, i dont know these people and they dont know me! I am sure if we where good friends they wouldnt be talking like that.

The fact of the matter is that classical musicians are living in very precarious times. Attendance at concerts and recitals is at a record low.

I'd have to disagree with this. I think there are more people attending concerts than they used to 200 yrs ago. Even in the time where classical music was the only music to listen to, attendance at concerts was not always great. Nowadays, more people have more money, and going to concerts is not really regarded as a snobby upperclass thing as it use to be in the past. An unknown can host their own concert and make it very sucessfull these days. Back then you HAD to be famous to even hire a good concert hall, let alone sell the tickets, nowadays that is much much more accessible.

You will see programs fail which lack any proper media coverage and targeted advertising, or get too ambitious. For example i did see the West Australian Ballet company cancel a concert in a smaller town because there was not enough tickets sold. I think they had to really think about their numbers, a group of 50 in a ballet company peforming for a city of 20,000 people. That is very tough to make money on even if you are a super star. As a solo peformer it is a different question, you can survive on smaller attendance because not as many people need to be paid.

I reckon the world, let alone the music world, is filled with lots of useless talk. I have a philosophy that everything we say can be considered rubbish, because there is always be one person who thinks it is. So its best to be quiet and show by example.

Lastly, I haven't met a career musician who come up to me and has a serious talk about who is superior in this or who is better in that. The converstation is utterly useless, how does it help you or make you a better musician? It is useful to discuss why we like what this person does with the music, but to say oh i am better than them or they are better than me or this person or the guy down the road, who give a flying @)#($*(@)# lol.

[pianowelsh]

The statement A musician is only as good as his /her last performance is VERY and sometimes painfully True!!!!   There are a really interesting mix of people on this web and some who are INCREDIBLY ambitious with their repertoire! GO people!!!!! It's good people have an outlet for their opinions. AND you guys have opinions all right!!! 

[Dikai]

indeed, classical music isn't quite appreciated anymore by the general population...
many people who say they like classical music, they refer to those very few limited pieces of popular classical music.  but when the music moves on to, say, beyond the theme or onto the 2nd movement, they don't like it!!??  very odd isn't it...

but we have nothing to worry about, classical music will overcome the test of time and be forever glorified. 

the popular singers and all "idol" artists will come and go (they already do), but in another 100 years, many new groups of idol artists will still come and go, but our very old friend J.S.Bach will still be there, unforgotten!!  (in ghost form??  just kidding)

seriously, some singers today can't even singer....  well, they certainly have a rhythm!!