Emotion in Chopin Vs. Rachmaninoff

[opus10no2]

These two composers occupy very different emotional universes, and I find their contrast quite interesting.

Of course every piece is different, but Rach is big, bold, relatively unrestrained his delving into depths of sadness. His Music seems to celebrate the cathartic exorcism of brooding sadness. Very 'Russian', as the stereotype goes. I find great joy in sharing this despair with Rachmaninoff.

Chopin on the other hand feels less decided, more capricious, very bittersweet. In his saddest moments he thinks of hope, and even in his joy he recalls woes past and to come.
Chopin's music is less overtly sad, but it makes me weep more. His Music is so intimate, so confessional, so human.

I'm speaking broadly here, but I adore both composers and find it fascinating to contrast them, especially their emotional worlds.

What are your thoughts and feelings on this contrast?

[piulento]

I really like these sorts of threads. It's nice to read how other people see my favorite composers.
I agree about what you said, and I think it has a lot to do both with the character of the composer itself, and the type of music he took inspiration from.
Chopin was pretty weak most of the time, and he couldn't play with a wide range of dynamics like Rach could. But he made up for it with more subtle nuances in his music, so he could pretty much express more complex emotions with less "raw mass" than Rach (at least to me).
Chopin was more influenced by Mozart and Bach, while Rachmaninoff was more influenced by more progressive music, which gave him a lot of liberty to express whatever he wanted.
Both are incredible composers, but I like Chopin's 'restrained' style more. Rachmaninoff wrote beautiful melodies and understood the piano very well. But he was also a virtuoso pianist, which sometimes made his writing a bit too extroverted (much like Liszt). Even though Chopin was less decisive about his emotions in his compositions, every note holds a lot of emotional baggage. That's probably why he makes people weep more.
But I do have to mention that things are naturally never 'black and white', and every rule has some exceptions.

[vaniii]

These two composers occupy very different emotional universes, and I find their contrast quite interesting.

Of course every piece is different, but Rach is big, bold, relatively unrestrained his delving into depths of sadness. His Music seems to celebrate the cathartic exorcism of brooding sadness. Very 'Russian', as the stereotype goes. I find great joy in sharing this despair with Rachmaninoff.

Chopin on the other hand feels less decided, more capricious, very bittersweet. In his saddest moments he thinks of hope, and even in his joy he recalls woes past and to come.
Chopin's music is less overtly sad, but it makes me weep more. His Music is so intimate, so confessional, so human.

I'm speaking broadly here, but I adore both composers and find it fascinating to contrast them, especially their emotional worlds.

What are your thoughts and feelings on this contrast?

Rachmaninoff is a difficult one to place for me.  Though his music is undoubtablly shrouded in romanticism, influenced by Chopin, he certainly does embrace ideals of post impressionism, and beginnings of 20th Century experimentation.

Thinking of his contemporary and close friend Scriabin, we can see a spectrum of sorts; that being, Rachmaninoff, a foot in the past, Scriabin, looking to what is coming.

Chopin is a very different sound to Rachmaninoff; the former certainly more delicate and feathery.  There is almost 70-80 years between them and it shows; Chopin's writing firmly entrenched in standard harmony and progression, as opposed to Rachmaninoff's use of dissonance and suspensions and unrelated key signatures.

Something to consider, C-sharp minor is of great significance leading back to Beethoven Op 27 No 2.  Chopin's Fantasie-impromptu, Etude Op. 10 No 4 and Berceuse Op.57, of great significance, in mood and character.  Influencing Rachmaninoff's Prelude in C-Sharp Minor, Op. 3, No. 2, Chopin's preludes noteworthy enough for Debussy's own set, and later Rachmaninoff to undertake this task of completing two sets of his own.

Standing on the shoulders of giants.  

PS: after writing, it is appropriate that someone should post two examples of Chopin progression (albeit not feathery, or delicate), and Rachmaninoff's use of dissonance.

[opus10no2]

Another thing of note i that the pianos of Rach's time had evolved to have more power, and range.
Booming bass notes, strong chords, it all adds to his expressive range.

Rachmaninoff worshipped Chopin it must be remembered, I definitely think Rach's concerti are 'weightier' whereas Chopin was more a master of the intimate miniature.

The Chopin E minor prelude is a work of stunning genius, probably the saddest little piece anyone has ever written. A simple melody, bordering on banal, with a chromatic descent....a small gasp of hope contrasting with anguish in the middle, and ending...again with a chromatic descent to dust.

[themeandvariation]

Chopin certainly employs effectively dissonance and suspensions, and unrelated key signatures
here:  (as far reaching i would posit, as Rach's harmonic sense.. -(if not more so, all the more amazing considering the time line )…

[visitor]

not sure I agree that Sergei worshipped Chopin, if you have a source, would be most interested in reading more on that. Sergei definately leaned more Tchaikovsky and almost more than anyone, he held Medtner in the  very high esteem.

now if we are talking Chopin influence on a great soviet composer figure and it's impact on writing in an emotionally evocative manner, that discussion most definatley nods more to Balakirev than Rachmaninoff...


"...A founding member of "The Mighty Five" lends a hand...to Chopin.

Celebrating Chopin became a preoccupation for Mily Balakirev in his twilight years. Balakirev had made his reputation a half-century earlier as inspirational leader of the Russian nationalists known as “The Mighty Five.” Of these composers, who also included Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov and Modest Mussorgsky, Balakirev had the most musical training.

Thanks to one of Balakirev's first teachers, Chopin’s music took hold at an early age and didn’t let go. Chopin’s nationalism and his innovation complemented Balakirev’s own impulses. In his piano music, he adopted almost every form that Chopin had used.

In the 1880s Balakirev’s influence on Russian music waned, and in 1895 he retired from his last administrative post. But he kept composing until the end of his life, which came just a couple of months after Chopin’s 100th birthday. For the centennial Balakirev re-wrote Chopin’s Piano Concerto…on the heels of several other Chopin-inspired pieces, including a suite for orchestra and an Impromptu on Themes from Two Preludes.

The most tangible of Balakirev’s memorials to Chopin is an obelisk near Chopin’s birthplace, inscribed with his likeness and date of birth. Balakirev led the effort to place the monument there in 1894. Afterward, on the anniversary of Chopin’s death, Balakirev played Chopin’s unpublished miniature, Lento con grand espressione, which he himself had copied from a manuscript. - Joe Brant & Don Lee...."

[opus10no2]

I'm quite sure Rach loved Chopin...he was a couple generations removed to have been influenced directly but what about his Chopin Variations?

I love hearing about the other composers like you mention Balakirev, and also Henselt whom was a big Rach influence.

[lostinidlewonder]

Chopin's works IMHO knocks Rachmaninov out of the park in terms of emotional variation. You will find things in Rachmaninov you won't in Chopin but it's not enough by comparison. Chopin is like a Cramer/Field mix and many of his melodies effortlessly penetrates our consciousness, Rachmaninov is not so naturally absorbed by comparison. There are absolutely beautiful works from Rachmaninov but they are overshadowed by the amount of Chopin works for me. I love Rachmaninov for his syncopation, wonderful broad chords and harmonies, it is a special place (I always feel some kind of physical coldness though maybe it's how I interpreted that Russian sound). Russian music always sounds so serious to me, Tchaikovsky maybe breaks that ideology for me most but Rachmaninov seemed a real stern serious musical fellow, none of the poetic feminine touch of Chopin. Rachmaninov is fully "male" music to me where Chopin is androgynous and because of this I feel Chopin is much more all encompassing musically.