LH RH coordination issues??

[keystroke3]

Hands together coordination has got to be the single most frusterating sticking point for almost every beginner piano player. I still remember that feeling...

You know, that feeling where you just look at your hands and it feels like they just won’t follow your orders?

Ugh… it’s frustrating. I remember that overwhelming feeling. And how tough it can seem to correct it.

But guess what. It’s not your fault. Not at all. (I’m going to tell you my strategy to fix it in a bit…)

Lets think about this for a second...because it makes PERFECT SENSE (oh, and we’ll talk about the “Zone of Optimal Development” later as well… I think it’s really important!).

Think about it…

First off, there have been a TON of studies that show you can really only focus on one thing at a time. It’s much slower (and WAY more frustrating) to try and learn everything at once. You can speed up your learning tremendously by isolating one area at a time.

Now … for every other aspect of your playing (technique, sight-reading, playing by ear, ext), we use a system to zero-in and target ONE aspect of your playing. So you can FOCUS on just that and dominate that area.

For example. When we learn Technique, we use scales.

With scales we DON’T have to worry about rhythm (it’s just straight eighth notes).

We DON’T have to worry about melody (it’s just steps up the keyboard).

We DON’T have to worry about hands coordination (well, we do a little bit. But the left and right hand play the same notes, just an octave apart, so we simplify it as much as possible).

That way we can ISOLATE and FOCUS on our technique. Without getting bogged down with that other stuff. That's why they work so darn well. It just makes sense to learn that way.

And then when we start playing songs, our Technique will be solid, and we don’t have to think about it. It’s just ingrained, so we can focus on OTHER aspects of playing (like expressiveness).

Now… lets apply this same concept to Hands Together Coordination.

If you simply try to learn it by learning a bunch of songs, you have a TON of stuff to focus on (melody, rhythm, time signature, key signature, accidentals…..aarrrgggghhh!!!).

Makes it pretty difficult to focus on getting hands together, huh.

So why not learn Hands Together Coordination just like we learn everything else? By having a SYSTEMATIC process of learning them?

Why not have a series of exercises (just like finger exercises when it comes to Technique) specifically designed to walk you through every aspect of the process of learning Hands Together Coordination.

Where each exercise isolates Hands Together Coordination. You don’t have to worry about key signature, time signature, big jumps and leaps, ext. You can JUST focus on getting the Left and Right hand working together.

And most importantly… the exercises progress so that each is just a TINY bit harder than the last one. So you won’t get frustrated and overwhelmed. Which brings me to...

The "Zone of Optimal Development"

I remember I used to make the big mistake of equating practice time with learning.

I’d say “well, I practiced an hour today, so I learned a lot’...

But it really doesn’t matter how MUCH you practice… it matters how much you learn.

And that’s why it’s realllly important to stay in the “Zone of Optimal Development.” Let me explain…

A bunch of really-smart-people figured out this concept… it basically goes like this:

When we’re learning (anything, not just piano!), if we’re practicing something that’s too EASY, we won’t make any progress (because we’re not stretching ourselves at all).

And on the flip side, if we’re practicing something that’s too DIFFICULT, we won’t progress either (think: if you can only bench press 100-lbs, and you try to bench-press 300 lbs - you won’t even be able to lift it once! So it won’t help you). This is where the feeling of frustration comes from.

But there’s a very small area of learning that’s JUST past our comfort zone. It’s hard enough that it challenges and stretches us. But it’s not too hard where it’s overwhelming. This is what we like to call the “Zone of Optimal Development.”

And the FASTEST learning comes when we stay right in that zone.

And even if we practice 4 HOURS, but we’re not in the zone, we won’t really LEARN that much.

On the flip side, even if you just practiced 5 minutes, but you stay in the zone, you can learn and progress a lot.

So, how do we apply it to Left-Hand Right-Hand Coordination?

Well, lets say we had different "levels” of exercises. And each level progresses just a little harder than the last level. Here’s what it looks like:

Level 1: RH Simple Block Chords – LH Simple Block Chords

Level 2: RH Simple Melody – LH Simple Block Chords

Level 3: RH Simple Block Chords – LH Simple Melody

Level 4: RH Complex Block Chords – LH Complex Block Chords

Level 5: RH Complex Melody – LH Simple Block Chords

Level 6: RH Simple Block Chords – LH Complex Melody

Level 7: RH Complex Melody – LH Complex Block Chords

Level 8:  RH Complex Block Chord – LH Complex Melody

Level 9: RH Complex Melody – LH Complex Melody

Level 10: RH Complex Melody –LH Complex Melody

So as you can see… each level ramps up the exercise difficulty by just a little bit, one step at a time.

Basically this is what I created in a course called "Hands Together Coordination Domination."

And yes, I am plugging my own course, and I'm sure I'll get some backlash in the comments. But I also think I provide valuable information that can help people, so feel free to get it or not! Even if you don't, you can use the concepts above to help you learn more efficiently.

Now here's how it works: you simply spend 5 minutes a day on the exercises, running each through the “8 Step Gauntlet Method” (more about that in the video).

And every day you cross off more and more exercises from the Hands Together Ultimate Goal Sheet (more about that as well in the video as well).

And after a few months of this, your Hands Together Coordination will be at a whole nother level.

Anyway, here's a video with more info:

Let me know what you think!

-Zach Evans

[kalospiano]

I'm judging just by what you wrote here, as I haven't seen the video yet.
I think this is very sound advice, very direct, concise and methodical, and this applies to your other topic on performance anxiety as well.
I also appreciate that you wrote everything down instead of just leaving the link to your channel. I will watch the video now. Cheers!

[louispodesta]

Hands together coordination has got to be the single most frusterating sticking point for almost every beginner piano player. I still remember that feeling...

You know, that feeling where you just look at your hands and it feels like they just won’t follow your orders?

Ugh… it’s frustrating. I remember that overwhelming feeling. And how tough it can seem to correct it.

But guess what. It’s not your fault. Not at all. (I’m going to tell you my strategy to fix it in a bit…)

Lets think about this for a second...because it makes PERFECT SENSE (oh, and we’ll talk about the “Zone of Optimal Development” later as well… I think it’s really important!).

Think about it…

First off, there have been a TON of studies that show you can really only focus on one thing at a time. It’s much slower (and WAY more frustrating) to try and learn everything at once. You can speed up your learning tremendously by isolating one area at a time.

Now … for every other aspect of your playing (technique, sight-reading, playing by ear, ext), we use a system to zero-in and target ONE aspect of your playing. So you can FOCUS on just that and dominate that area.

For example. When we learn Technique, we use scales.

With scales we DON’T have to worry about rhythm (it’s just straight eighth notes).

We DON’T have to worry about melody (it’s just steps up the keyboard).

We DON’T have to worry about hands coordination (well, we do a little bit. But the left and right hand play the same notes, just an octave apart, so we simplify it as much as possible).

That way we can ISOLATE and FOCUS on our technique. Without getting bogged down with that other stuff. That's why they work so darn well. It just makes sense to learn that way.

And then when we start playing songs, our Technique will be solid, and we don’t have to think about it. It’s just ingrained, so we can focus on OTHER aspects of playing (like expressiveness).

Now… lets apply this same concept to Hands Together Coordination.

If you simply try to learn it by learning a bunch of songs, you have a TON of stuff to focus on (melody, rhythm, time signature, key signature, accidentals…..aarrrgggghhh!!!).

Makes it pretty difficult to focus on getting hands together, huh.

So why not learn Hands Together Coordination just like we learn everything else? By having a SYSTEMATIC process of learning them?

Why not have a series of exercises (just like finger exercises when it comes to Technique) specifically designed to walk you through every aspect of the process of learning Hands Together Coordination.

Where each exercise isolates Hands Together Coordination. You don’t have to worry about key signature, time signature, big jumps and leaps, ext. You can JUST focus on getting the Left and Right hand working together.

And most importantly… the exercises progress so that each is just a TINY bit harder than the last one. So you won’t get frustrated and overwhelmed. Which brings me to...

The "Zone of Optimal Development"

I remember I used to make the big mistake of equating practice time with learning.

I’d say “well, I practiced an hour today, so I learned a lot’...

But it really doesn’t matter how MUCH you practice… it matters how much you learn.

And that’s why it’s realllly important to stay in the “Zone of Optimal Development.” Let me explain…

A bunch of really-smart-people figured out this concept… it basically goes like this:

When we’re learning (anything, not just piano!), if we’re practicing something that’s too EASY, we won’t make any progress (because we’re not stretching ourselves at all).

And on the flip side, if we’re practicing something that’s too DIFFICULT, we won’t progress either (think: if you can only bench press 100-lbs, and you try to bench-press 300 lbs - you won’t even be able to lift it once! So it won’t help you). This is where the feeling of frustration comes from.

But there’s a very small area of learning that’s JUST past our comfort zone. It’s hard enough that it challenges and stretches us. But it’s not too hard where it’s overwhelming. This is what we like to call the “Zone of Optimal Development.”

And the FASTEST learning comes when we stay right in that zone.

And even if we practice 4 HOURS, but we’re not in the zone, we won’t really LEARN that much.

On the flip side, even if you just practiced 5 minutes, but you stay in the zone, you can learn and progress a lot.

So, how do we apply it to Left-Hand Right-Hand Coordination?

Well, lets say we had different "levels” of exercises. And each level progresses just a little harder than the last level. Here’s what it looks like:

Level 1: RH Simple Block Chords – LH Simple Block Chords

Level 2: RH Simple Melody – LH Simple Block Chords

Level 3: RH Simple Block Chords – LH Simple Melody

Level 4: RH Complex Block Chords – LH Complex Block Chords

Level 5: RH Complex Melody – LH Simple Block Chords

Level 6: RH Simple Block Chords – LH Complex Melody

Level 7: RH Complex Melody – LH Complex Block Chords

Level 8:  RH Complex Block Chord – LH Complex Melody

Level 9: RH Complex Melody – LH Complex Melody

Level 10: RH Complex Melody –LH Complex Melody

So as you can see… each level ramps up the exercise difficulty by just a little bit, one step at a time.

Basically this is what I created in a course called "Hands Together Coordination Domination."

And yes, I am plugging my own course, and I'm sure I'll get some backlash in the comments. But I also think I provide valuable information that can help people, so feel free to get it or not! Even if you don't, you can use the concepts above to help you learn more efficiently.

Now here's how it works: you simply spend 5 minutes a day on the exercises, running each through the “8 Step Gauntlet Method” (more about that in the video).

And every day you cross off more and more exercises from the Hands Together Ultimate Goal Sheet (more about that as well in the video as well).

And after a few months of this, your Hands Together Coordination will be at a whole nother level.

Anyway, here's a video with more info:

Let me know what you think!

-Zach Evans

Once again, this pianist has been allowed to promote his commercial course of study.  Hey, Moderator.

[keypeg]

Let me know what you think!

Quibbles first:
Instead of just presenting your system, you first oppose it to a hypothetical way of practising that is flawed in an exaggerated way - as if either people practice that way, or along your proposed system.  If your method is good, then it will stand up by its own merits.  It doesn't need to be bolstered by being compared to something silly.  (For me that's always a turn-off. )

The "other way of practising" that you present has us playing a whole bunch of pieces seemingly at the same time, or in quick succession.  The student is trying to master every aspect of the piece at once, and similar.  For some reason the student who may be a beginner is already struggling with accidentals and leaps.  There are other ways to practice.  How about this: Choose a piece that is at a level you can handle. * Divide it into plausible sections, working in chunks. * Work on one element at a time, maybe right notes with good fingering, when that is solid add rhythm, when that is solid add the next thing. --- Many of us have learned to work in a version of this, and it immediately gets rid of most of the problems that you set up.

I watched your video.  Nowhere in the 13+ minutes do you actually show anything that one can use.  It is another introduction.  I even went on your site to see if I could find what you were talking about, and couldn't see it.  So

Let me know what you think!

I haven't seen anything concrete to be able to have an opinion or thoughts.  I saw free lessons, but not on the topic you introduced here.

For your general premise: I've seen two angles along which music is taught.  In one, the teaching of skills and knowledge (technique & theory) is incorporated into the teaching of pieces right away.  There is a philosophy of "integration" with this.  THE FLAW to this method is when a teacher doesn't actually teach those skills, and thinks that assigning pieces, etudes, and scales will magically make these things come about.  From what you are saying, it appears that you were a victim of this yourself, and had to find answers - which you are now transmitting to students.  (2) Another philosophy is where you first teach skills and knowledge separately, before launching into pieces, so that the skills and knowledge are already there for the student by the time they go to pieces.  I think the earlier period teachers may have done that.  (They also had rich students of the upper class who were attended by a tutor every single day).  You seem to have gone in the direction of (2).  You want to give the skills and knowledge first, and go pieces afterward.

Which I see as one plausible choice.

[outin]

To be honest I have seldom found extreme simplification and dissection very helpful. I played hands together from day one and it is a most natural thing for me. I do not think about rh-lh much. As soon as I get the aural image right, my hands coordinate naturally. Of course there are tricky things that require a bit of work to get together, but mostly I just figure out the rhythmic pattern and how the hands interact. So I don't have to think about lh doing this and rh doing that. Instead the hands work together as one to build the musical picture.

[keypeg]

Zach - exploring - "Zone of optimal development"

You put it down to pieces that, like in Goldilocks, are not too easy, not to hard, but "just right" in terms of difficulty.  I have a different take on this, and there is also a reason, which I'll explain at the end, why the whole idea of "easy", "hard" pieces makes me uncomfortable.

As a student I see things in terms of "underlying skills", and with it, goals toward those skills.  Effective practice for me involves focusing on a basic skill in that practice session, and aiming toward it for as long as one can concentrate which may be 10 minutes.  You find out exactly how you need to work, and how to find out if you've reached what you need to reach.  For example, melody loud + chords soft.  Start by playing a melody note loudly with larger movement, the chord softly afterward with smaller movement, noting how it feels, then gradually edge them together until they happen simultaneously.  When that has come into the nervous system after a few days, make the final step your starting point, a few notes at a time.  Here a specific skill has been defined.  The idea of GOAL, with a method of getting at that goal is primordial for me.

Why I don't like the idea of "easy / hard / just right" (Goldilocks) pieces.  If you get a true master pianist to play a simple "beginner student piece", he will put things into that piece that may move you to tears.  He's putting skills into it: timing such as a subtly delayed note or expanded timing, articulation, dynamics, along with an understanding of how music works.  The beginner, or the poorly taught / mistaught student will make any level of piece stay shallow, and will struggle with the same things in all levels, because he's staying at a superficial level - if the notes are "easy to play" and he can dash it off, then it's "his level". ..... The first time I had lessons on another instrument, the teacher was looking for pieces I "might like" and pieces that were at my level.  We also went super fast through the first grade levels, until we got to music that was "hard".  BUT (!!) that first "easy" music was where I could have learned the skills, which would have helped with the advanced music.  I developed an allergy to the whole idea.  I do not agree with the "zone of optimal development" as set forth, for that reason.

There is also a problem with using the term of being "in the zone".  You use it to mean - staying within the level you can handle.  In essence I agree with that.  But to "be in the zone" means an idealized kind of mental and emotional state where everything flows wonderfully.  It could be misunderstood.

[j_tour]

It's kind of hard to follow the OP, since it's not reasonable to go off-site to look at some paralipomena for no reason, but call me old-fashioned:  for me the royal road is to take some tricky rhythms (especially those that aren't difficult to play in terms of notes), like the Precipitato from the Prokof. Sonata 7, or the gigue from Schoenberg's Op. 25 and just drill them again and again.

It can be very frustrating and tedious, at least to me, but sort of all rote repetition in whatever field -- mathematics, logics, algorithms and data structures in computing -- is the same way, since not everybody has Gaussian or Mozartian levels of intuition or insight. 

Well, even if it's inefficient, it has the advantage of being pretty fool-proof, even if the end result may not win any big awards.