sight reading ability level learning new pieces based on these pieces below

[thomas82]

Hi i am trying these pieces below:
https://gmajormusictheory.org/Freebies/Level3/3FirstNoel/3FirstNoel.pdf
https://gmajormusictheory.org/Freebies/Level3/3FirstNoel/3FirstNoel.mp3

https://gmajormusictheory.org/Freebies/Level3/3RondoAllaTurca/3RondoAllaTurca.pdf
https://gmajormusictheory.org/Freebies/Level3/3RondoAllaTurca/3RondoAllaTurca.mp3

May i know how many tries can an average pianist play at the tempo as indicated on the mp3 considered "sight reading" good enough.
Any indication at how many tries,amount of time spent,the level of player(beginner,intermediate,advanced) to determine your "sight reading" level,i consider sight reading in this context as reading the new score and play and not by memorizing the piece.

[vaniii]

Hi i am trying these pieces below:
https://gmajormusictheory.org/Freebies/Level3/3FirstNoel/3FirstNoel.pdf
https://gmajormusictheory.org/Freebies/Level3/3FirstNoel/3FirstNoel.mp3

https://gmajormusictheory.org/Freebies/Level3/3RondoAllaTurca/3RondoAllaTurca.pdf
https://gmajormusictheory.org/Freebies/Level3/3RondoAllaTurca/3RondoAllaTurca.mp3

May i know how many tries can an average pianist play at the tempo as indicated on the mp3 considered "sight reading" good enough.
Any indication at how many tries,amount of time spent,the level of player(beginner,intermediate,advanced) to determine your "sight reading" level,i consider sight reading in this context as reading the new score and play and not by memorizing the piece.

Once.

[thomas82]

Seriously with hard work and dedicated training achieving playing at speed once
With some many hand position changes like Noel above is attainable for the average pianists?

[keypeg]

Instead of answering directly, I looked at your earlier posts to see if there were any clues on why you were asking this question.  For one thing I wondered "Why aim for this in the first place, in what context?  I saw that you are self-taught, and that you found it easy to sight read the earlier pieces in your method book, which also tended to stay in one "hand position".
I am not a professional pianist like Vanii.  I'm a student.  I was able to play these through at tempo first time round, though I chose to go a bit slower for the 2nd.  The important thing is what was going on for me to achieve this, and what skills I already have that I drew on.  These are:
- I'm at home in the key of D for the first piece, so I will automatically play the correct sharps and sort of pre-feel them in my hands.
- The notes on the page associate with the keys on the keybarod
- I see the notes in groupings of "hand positions" - which bunch of notes I can grab in one hand, so when to jump up.  I'll sort of "see" each group.  The number "1" is the most important number to see for fingering, since it's a "guide number" that tells you when your hand jumps up.  5 can also play this role
- I notice certain interval patterns, such as in beat 3 "angels did say", where in both hands the notes descend step-wise.

I would not make sight reading an aim AT ALL.  Prima vista sight reading is a specialized skill used by accompanists, for example.  Developing reading skills --- the skills that support reading - and approach skills is much more important.  Those skills will then also allow for prima vista reading.  Some of the things I listed above come from this.

For First Noel, I might practice moving my hand to positions where this occurs, and noticing where it occurs.  This is probably a newer skill for you.  Actually what I'd do is to work on it as a piece, in sections, studying it an its components (notes, rhythm etc.)  Or if you insist on playing it prima vista, studying it afterward to see what components you missed or are weak on.  Personally I am working on reading, reading skills, and approach skills.  Prima vista doesn't interest me as much at present, and I suspect it will develop by itself.

For the 2nd piece, the arrangement of Rondo Alla Turca, the first thing I notice when I glance at the piece is that it has one flat in the signature which makes it F major or D minor - Dm in this case.  I see a pattern in the RH where the notes swirl around a key note (a turn).  As I glance at the LH I see it keeps playing the same note pairs.  In m. 6 I see hand position has changed in the LH and we're playing 5ths.  I notice these things before I play a single note. This lets me anticipate ahead of time.  As I play I'm looking strategically ahead at key places.  In the 2nd half I see the RH plays the same pattern twice, a stationary F with the top notes rising in steps, then repeats the same pattern a third down.  The LH is playing a broken F chord one note at a time.  I can set my hand for that F,A,C ahead of time so I can concentrate on the RH.  I see m. 18 is like the beginning, and by now that pattern will already be in my hands and mind.  A bid mental note for the diminished chord in m. 22.

This is a piece I'd work on rather than just sight read, and there are things to be learned from it.

If I were working on this piece, if it were a level for me to work on, I would indeed play it through in order to check it out, see where difficulties are and so on - but not aiming for prima vista and final tempo.  That is not where my needs lie.  (Some of us can also hear the music in our heads as we read it off the page, and even feel it in our hands - I have only started developing the second.)

[thomas82]

Thanks keypad your comments are very good.My main aim is to develop a skill whereby i can learn a new difficult piece very quickly for example in few days instead of months and i believe to achieve that strong sight reading skills come into play here and that is why i am so focused on this.

As a working adult and with a lot of other commitments,there is really very limited time for me to learn a piece in months.Learning a piece using months to achieve is very demoralising i think for most adult piano students including me as well.

From your comments i can see that you are a really competent pianist who can play noel at the tempo as in the mp3 link provided on first try,this is not easy to achieve.

May i know what is your practice routine like and what you do before you start on a new piece?
Any tips that you can provide me to learn a new piece very quickly like full version fur elise which i eventually i would like to play?

By the way, i am learning piano with a friend from a music school now and i found this forum really very good for students when teacher is not around to guide you during your practice time.

[outin]

I am not a very competent pianist, but those scores are quite easy to read. What you need is just time and rigth kind of practice and someone to give you feedback, preferably a competent teacher. The process is difficult to speed up. Development happens so gradually.

[thomas82]

I also agree that this piece is easy to read but still it takes me one day to consistently play at the right tempo without any mistakes.
But i know there are a lot of people in this forum can master this within minutes and i hope i can achieve such level before i attempt even more difficult pieces.

[outin]

I also agree that this piece is easy to read but still it takes me one day to consistently play at the right tempo without any mistakes.
But i know there are a lot of people in this forum can master this within minutes and i hope i can achieve such level before i attempt even more difficult pieces.

Mistakes are common in sight reading (=prima vista). The point is to keep going despite missing some notes. Do not aim for something like that now. You are allowed to take whatever time needed to learn a piece properly.

To be a good sight reader you need to be a good player. This you get by practicing different things in different ways and working carefully on details.