Piano Forum logo
March 27, 2017, 12:39:43 AM *
   Forum Home   Help Search  


Twelve Nocturnes and a Waltz

Critically-acclaimed American pianist Robert Henry presents his highly anticipated debut recording “Twelwe Nocturnes and a Waltz“. Released in 2010, this recording is a compilation of some of the world’s best loved melodies, featuring Nocturnes of Chopin, Fauré, Grieg, Liszt and many others, including the world premiere of Alexei Stanchinsky’s forgotten Nocturne from 1907. Read more >>

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: "Sacred" music for piano solo  (Read 11633 times)
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« on: January 18, 2005, 12:19:51 AM »

I have a student who is a committed Christian, and she has decided that she is now only interested in religious music. She brought me a CD to listen to, with some ghastly pop Christian music saying this is what she wants to play from now on. I was horrified at the prospect of having to listen to this drivel, so I suggested to her instead that she should dedicate her musical studies to some of the greatest sacred music ever written – and gave her a number of CDs to listen to by Bach (St Matthew Passion, Mass in B-minor, cantatas, etc.) Mozart (Requiem), Beethoven (Mass in B minor) and Arvo Part, plus Gregorian chant and the like. She was suitably impressed and wants to have a go.

So here is the problem: Does anyone have any suggestions for “sacred” pieces? Preferably originally written for piano solo, that are not too forbidding (around grade 5 – 8 )? Although there seems to be plenty of “sacred” pieces for voice or choir, the only ones I could come up with for piano solo were:

1.   The Bach Chorales (not exactly for piano solo, but feasible)
2.   Myra Hess’s transcription of “Jesus, Joy of men”
3.   Schumann’s “Ein Chorale” from the album for the young.
4.   Sgambatti transcription of Gluck  - Dance of the blessed spirits
5.   Tchaikovsky “In Church” from the album for the young
6.   Alan Hovhaness – “The mystic Flute” (this one may be pushing it a bit…)
7.   Liszt – The shepherds at the manger; Sancta Dorothea and Ave Maris Stella are the three easiest ones – everything else is more difficult. Transcription of Schubert’s Ave Maria.
8.   Bach – Gounod – Ave Maria.
9.   Granados – “The Evening Bell” (from Bocetos).
10.   Messiaen – Vingt regards (but this is far too difficult for her level – and I doubt she will like it)

Anything else?

Best wishes,
Bernhard
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
xvimbi
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 2439


« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2005, 01:06:45 AM »

Wow, you've got a problem...

Tchaikovsky's “Morning Prayer” from the album for the young

terribly bad with sacred music...
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
Belgedin
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 16


« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2005, 03:30:12 AM »

Didn't Hess transcribe Bach's "Sheep May Safely Graze" and "Sleepers Awake" (among others)? Or are those too difficult?

Basically everything of Bach's can be considered "Sacred" I think. I mean it doesn't have to have a Christian title too have been written for Christ.

Handel's "Hallelujah Chorus" from "The Messaiah"would probably float her boat as well (if you can find a transcription.)
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
willcowskitz
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 539


« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2005, 04:30:26 AM »

I have a student who is a committed Christian, and she has decided that she is now only interested in religious music.

Someone who can't find God in music by herself will not get any deeper into essence of God by playing pieces that were "spiritually" titled. If she lacks understanding (spirituality), that's it, by being handed "sacred" pieces she'll just keep searching for God in all the wrong places. Also, "decided that she's only interested in religious music" sounds as retarded as suddenly deciding that the Bible is all the literature that I'll allow myself to read.

I didn't have anything to contribute, just amused again at the indirectional proportionality of spirituality and religiousness.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
galonia
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 472


« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2005, 07:28:27 AM »

She brought me a CD to listen to, with some ghastly pop Christian music saying this is what she wants to play from now on. I was horrified at the prospect of having to listen to this drivel,

LOL, Bernhard, I love your use of the word "drivel" - my sister is actually in one of these Christian pop groups, and it's only for her sake that I'll listen to their CDs, otherwise it's pretty horrid stuff.

Perhaps your student can play hymns from church?  That's how I learnt to read chords efficiently, and the traditional hymns are quite nice, unlike the modern Christian pop.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
Op. 1 No. 2
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 67


« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2005, 10:32:26 AM »

Leos Janacek has a small piece called "Lord Jesus Christ is born" (Translated from Czech), which is a short piece, and is very easy. I don't know if that's what you're looking for, but well.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
shasta
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 493


« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2005, 12:20:13 PM »

Ack.  Tell your student to switch to voice.   Tongue
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

"self is self"   - i_m_robot
dreamaurora
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 134


« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2005, 02:01:38 PM »

Uh, well, I guess you will just have to transcribe those Hillsong and Integrity songs for piano, I know how you feel, the contemporary musicians in my previous church swear that contemporary Christian music are the only good music being produced nowadays.  Roll Eyes
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
shasta
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 493


« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2005, 02:41:43 PM »

Ack.  Tell your student to switch to voice.   Tongue

Another thought... why don't you steer into some chamber music and accompaning?  She may progress more quickly by having to play for/with other musicians, she would learn much more about musicianship, presence, and cooperation than she would sitting around playing by herself, plus there's plenty of sacred music in that arena. 
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

"self is self"   - i_m_robot
rafant
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 301


« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2005, 06:01:47 PM »

Dear Prof. Bernhard:

Please be aware of the christian denomination of your student. Suggestions as Masses, Requiem, Ave Maria (Gounod, Bach or Schubert), no matter how beautiful musically, have their place mainly under catholic faith. On the other hand, for Evangelical, Protestant, and Baptist church, the praise music should be devoted strictly for the Lord. If she is Lutheran, as was J.S. Bach, I’m not sure, better ask her about it. She surely have a pastor who is going to guide her in this area.

About her interest only for christian music, take into account that is due to a deep love for the Lord in her heart, and it seems to me admirable. She wants to devote her musical talents only to the Lord. All her motivation, her gifts, her sacrifice in piano playing are to honour Him. To grasp this is beyond the scope of anybody who doesn’t share her faith. So I think that your approach is wise: To guide her efforts towards the best music that the human being has created for praising the Lord. I don’t like christian pop music either.

Bach’s Chorales are fine. Piano transcriptions of Erwarte Dich, Jesus Joy of Men and Sleepers Awake are also suitable. Bach is the main composer for this kind of music, I think.

Best regards.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
peter_g_moll
PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 45


« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2005, 06:52:21 PM »

Quote
I have a student who is a committed Christian, and she has decided that she is now only interested in religious music. She brought me a CD to listen to, with some ghastly pop Christian music saying this is what she wants to play from now on. I was horrified at the prospect of having to listen to this drivel, so I suggested to her instead that she should dedicate her musical studies to some of the greatest sacred music ever written – and gave her a number of CDs to listen to by Bach (St Matthew Passion, Mass in B-minor, cantatas, etc.) Mozart (Requiem), Beethoven (Mass in B minor) and Arvo Part, plus Gregorian chant and the like. She was suitably impressed and wants to have a go.

So here is the problem: Does anyone have any suggestions for “sacred” pieces? Preferably originally written for piano solo, that are not too forbidding (around grade 5 – 8 )? Although there seems to be plenty of “sacred” pieces for voice or choir, the only ones I could come up with for piano solo were:

1.   The Bach Chorales (not exactly for piano solo, but feasible)
2.   Myra Hess’s transcription of “Jesus, Joy of men”
3.   Schumann’s “Ein Chorale” from the album for the young.
4.   Sgambatti transcription of Gluck  - Dance of the blessed spirits
5.   Tchaikovsky “In Church” from the album for the young
6.   Alan Hovhaness – “The mystic Flute” (this one may be pushing it a bit…)
7.   Liszt – The shepherds at the manger; Sancta Dorothea and Ave Maris Stella are the three easiest ones – everything else is more difficult. Transcription of Schubert’s Ave Maria.
8.   Bach – Gounod – Ave Maria.
9.   Granados – “The Evening Bell” (from Bocetos).
10.   Messiaen – Vingt regards (but this is far too difficult for her level – and I doubt she will like it)

Anything else?

Best wishes,
Bernhard

Ah, a favorite topic of mine.  There is a huge mine of material out there.  The trick will be to convince your student that indeed this is religious or spiritual.  I think you have taken the right tack by adopting a positive attitude and by steering her towards the great choral and orchestral classics by Bach and others.  And indeed if she’s convinced that this is the way to go, then you’ve not got a problem but a fantastic opportunity because she’ll work on the pieces you suggest with much more persistence, having a clear goal ahead.

I’d suggest you persist further by referring her to the great pianistic classics which were developed with explicit religious motivations:

1.     Franck, Prelude, chorale and fugue.  Both Aguettant and Cortot commented at length on its religious meaning in his famous book.

2.     Franck, Prelude, aria and final.  Cortot and Aguettant, similarly.  

3.     Liszt's Variations on Weinen, klagen, sorgen, zagen.  

4.     Busoni’s  Fantasia nach J.S. Bach.  Uses 4 chorales/hymns by Bach.  Composed in 4 days, in memory of his father.  Busoni wrote that when he performed it for the first time, people in the audience were weeping.  

5.     Liszt’s Funerailles.

6.     Alkan’s variations on Luther’s hymn Ein feste Burg.  I don’t know if this is any good musically – it’s not in print or on CD.

7.     Mendelssohn’s Prelude and Fugue in E minor which ends with a glorious chorale, practically identical to Ein feste Burg.

8.     Bach-Bauer, transcription of organ prelude Nun komm der Heiden Heiland.

9.     Liszt's Benediction de Dieu dans la solitude.

Several of these are on the two CDs Awadagin Pratt.

She won’t be able to do these right away.  But you can draw up a road-map of pieces – which I know is your strategy – so that she can get there.  The road-map could include some easier ones, which also have a clear religious motivation:

10.     Franck-Bauer, Prelude, fugue and variation.  Grade 8 level or so.

11.     Bach-Friedman’s Mein glaeubiges Herze, frohlocke.  About Grade 8, maybe only 7.  Out of print.  Get it on internet from the Australia National Library, $15 or so.  Super piece, lively, massive drama at end.  Played well by Petronel Malan in her CD Transfigured Bach.

12.     Paert’s Zur Genesung von Arinuschka.  Grade 1, but performance requires Grade 6 ability, I’d say.  

13.     Amy Beach’s Out of the Depths, Op. 130.

14.     Amy Beach’s By the still waters, Op. 114.

15.     There are several more pieces, some quite accessible for someone with Grade 5 to Grade 8 ability, in the CD by Elena Riu, Piano Icons for the 21st century.  Includes Tavener’s Ypakoe (which means “obedience” in Greek).

16.     I also agree with Belgedin who says that much of Bach is sacred in a sense.   Think of the symbolism in intervals common in that time – the tritone as the cross, etc.  The Sinfonia #9 in Fm would have been heard in Baroque times as having a strong religious sense.  The bad guys are the minor 9ths halfway through, which are finally overcome by good.  

17.     Hinson's 3 compendia of works suitable for playing at church.  The references are from his Guide to the pianist's repertoire, 3rd Ed. (Indiana, 2000).

     (a)     Classical music for the church service Vol. 1 - Alfred 452.  Bach through Granados.

     (b)     ditto, Vol. 2 - Alfred 453.  Bach through Khatchaturian.

     (c)     Classical music for the worship service - GS 19092, 1980.  Bach, Grieg, Gurlitt, Handel, Heller, Kohler, Kuhnau, Mozart, Nichelmann, Scarlatti, Schumann, Tchaikowsky.

18.     My all-time favorite: Brahms' setting of the Dies irae in Intermezzo Op. 118:6 in E minor.  Not easy.   Suitable for Maundy Thursday.

Here are some more, all culled from Maurice Hinson's Guide to the pianist's repertoire, 3rd Ed. (Indiana 2000).  I haven't heard or played them.

19.     H. Lichner, Fantasie on Stille Nacht, heilige Nacht, Schott 07149.

20.     Robert Dett, Eight Bible vignettes (Belwin-Mills).  Romantic style.

21.     Carl Reinecke, Christmas Sonatina Op. 251/3.  In Hinson's World's greatest sonatinas, Alfred 4617.

22.     Mario Castelnuovo-Tedesco, Evangelion: the story of Jesus, narrated to the children in 28 little piano pieces.  Forlivesi 1959.  4 vols.

23.     Andre Hajdu, Two prayer songs (IMI 423).  Intermediate level of difficulty.

24.     Hugo Herrmann, Cherubinische Sonate (Sikorski 396 1956).

25.     Ditto, Liturgische Fantasien.

26.     Grant Johannesen, Improvisation on a Mormon hymn (OUP).

27.     Johann Kuhnau, Musicalische Vorstellung einiger Biblischer Historien, 1700.  (Kurt Stone; PWM; Alfred).

28.     Sergei Liapunoff, Christmas festivals (MMP)

29.     Andre M. Marescotti, Massada (Joubert 1983)

30.     Flor Peters, 12 Chorale Preludes (CFP)

31.     Francis Poulenc, Trois Pieces 1928 (Heugel), including Hymne.

32.     Hermann Reutter, Fantasia Apocalyptica (Schott 1926).  On two familiar chorales.

33.     Gustav Adolf Schlemm, Sieven Klavierstuecke nach Albrecht Duerers Kupferstich.

34.     William B. Goldbert, Chorale prelude on Now thank we all our God.  (Chronos Music 1989).

35.     Gordon Rumson, Threnody for John Ogdon in the form of chorale variations with introduction and finale (Sikesdi Press 1991).  Includes Dies irae theme.

36.     Yuji Takahashi, Chained hands in prayer (Zen-On 416 1979)

37.     Louis Weingarden, Triptych 1969 (Bo&H).

38.     Alan Stout, Music for Good Friday Op. 24 1955-58 (ACA).

39.     Philip Glass, Solo Piano (Amsco).  Includes Mad rush which was originally composed for organ for the entrance of the Dalai Lama at St. John the Divine Cathedral in New York.

Now here are some items quoted from Steward Gordon's A History of keyboard literature:

40.     Ernst Bloch, Visions and prophecies, 1940.  Representing his "Jewish" style.

41.     Henk Bijvanck's 4 sonatas, sonatina and Piano solo.  He seeks to infuse these with is own spirituality.

Here are some items from Maurice Hinson's The pianist's guide to transcriptions, arrangements and paraphrases:

42.     Brahms' Six chorales for organ trans. Busoni, Op. 122.

43.     Dello Joio's Christmas music.  Trans. by him for duet.

Here are some items drawn from Robert Rimm's The composer-pianists: Hamelin and the eight:

44.     Bach, Thirteen Chorale Preludes (originally for organ), transcribed for piano by Samuil Feinberg.  Recorded beautifully by Martin Roscoe in a 2004 Hyperion release.

45.     Sorabji, Variations and triple fugue on Dies Irae (1923-1926).

Finally, some of my favorites (for listening that is!):

46.     Ottorino Respighi, Three preludes on Gregorian melodies.   Beautiful, listenable, obviously modernized, but clearly modal.  Difficult, regrettably.

47.     Deodat de Severac, Coin de cimetiere au printemps, from his En Languedoc.   Uses Dies irae and another melody which I suspect is from a well-known mass.  Poetic, quite cheerful actually, freely tonal.  About Grade 6 level, I think.

48.     Paul Ben-Haim, Sephardic melody from Three songs without words.  Trans. by Rami Bar-Niv, "Dedicated with love to the memory of his son Shai".  I have an mp3 and a CD recording.   Poignant, even heart-rending, wistful.  Obviously a Sephardic/Hebrew/middle Eastern type of melodic strain.  Grade 8+ difficulty, I'd guess.  I got the score from Bar-Niv -- see his web site.

Good luck.

Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

Peter Moll
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2005, 01:32:01 AM »

Wow, you've got a problem...

Indeed, with a capital "P". Tongue

Quote
Tchaikovsky's “Morning Prayer” from the album for the young

terribly bad with sacred music...

Good suggestion, I had overlooked this one. Thank you. Cheesy

Best wishes,
Bernhard
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2005, 01:33:27 AM »

Didn't Hess transcribe Bach's "Sheep May Safely Graze" and "Sleepers Awake" (among others)? Or are those too difficult?

Basically everything of Bach's can be considered "Sacred" I think. I mean it doesn't have to have a Christian title too have been written for Christ.

Handel's "Hallelujah Chorus" from "The Messaiah"would probably float her boat as well (if you can find a transcription.)

Yes, I agree that Bach always dedicated his pieces to God. But I don’t think that his keyboard pieces in particular had any “religious” program – except perhaps for some of his organ works.

I will consider transcriptions if I cannot find anything else, but I would rather use pieces originally written for piano. Handel Messiah is a good case in point. No matter how good the transcription it cannot possibly compete with a full choir.

Thank you, I appreciate your suggestions. Cheesy

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2005, 01:34:42 AM »



Someone who can't find God in music by herself will not get any deeper into essence of God by playing pieces that were "spiritually" titled. If she lacks understanding (spirituality), that's it, by being handed "sacred" pieces she'll just keep searching for God in all the wrong places. Also, "decided that she's only interested in religious music" sounds as retarded as suddenly deciding that the Bible is all the literature that I'll allow myself to read.

I didn't have anything to contribute, just amused again at the indirectional proportionality of spirituality and religiousness.

Indeed. I could not agree more. However, Rafant (see below) is the one who got closest to this lady’s peculiar psychology.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2005, 01:36:40 AM »



LOL, Bernhard, I love your use of the word "drivel" - my sister is actually in one of these Christian pop groups, and it's only for her sake that I'll listen to their CDs, otherwise it's pretty horrid stuff.

Perhaps your student can play hymns from church?  That's how I learnt to read chords efficiently, and the traditional hymns are quite nice, unlike the modern Christian pop.

Yes, I tried playing for her some hymns and the Bach Chorales. She was not impressed. She thought they were boring. In fact she claimed they could not possibly be Christian! She is Chinese, and converted to Christianity a few years ago – so all the exposure she has had to “Christian” music is this awful pop stuff which she thinks it is the greatest religious music ever. My mission as I see it is to improve her taste Wink. It may well be an impossible mission – and I am the Tom Cruise of piano teaching Grin).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2005, 01:38:06 AM »

Leos Janacek has a small piece called "Lord Jesus Christ is born" (Translated from Czech), which is a short piece, and is very easy. I don't know if that's what you're looking for, but well.


Thanks, op.1 no.2. I will check on that. Is it originally for piano? (and do you know the publisher?)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2005, 01:39:03 AM »

Ack.  Tell your student to switch to voice.   Tongue

 Grin Grin Grin

Nah. I need the money. Wink
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
op.109
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 16


« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2005, 01:39:45 AM »

Scriabin's Fifth sonata....perfect for the puritanical pianist Wink

Just curious, but roughly what level is your student at?

You could perhaps give her some basic piano transcriptions of famous religious music-I'm sure you could find a good one of Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring, for example.

You could also find arrangements of famous hymns, like Amazing Grace, The Old Rugged Cross, etc.  Actually, I often find hymns to be good sight reading practice.

Christmas carols, maybe?

I'm afraid that your choices of piano music are limited to mostly very simple stuff.  With the exception of Messiaen and Bach, I haven't found much religious-type music to be very rewarding, and so am not terribly familiar with it.

Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
op.109
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 16


« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2005, 01:51:17 AM »

Quote
Yes, I tried playing for her some hymns and the Bach Chorales. She was not impressed. She thought they were boring. In fact she claimed they could not possibly be Christian! She is Chinese, and converted to Christianity a few years ago – so all the exposure she has had to “Christian” music is this awful pop stuff which she thinks it is the greatest religious music ever. My mission as I see it is to improve her taste . It may well be an impossible mission – and I am the Tom Cruise of piano teaching ).

I feel compelled to comment with respect to this.  Certain Christians simply don't like or have any interest in music other than overtly Christian music, perhaps your student is like this.  I agree with the above poster who suggested voice lessons if the student honestly loves Christian pop (which, IMO, is even worse than regular pop music).  Your best bet is to ask for the hymn book from her church, and teach her lots and lots of hymns.  They're fairly easy, so she should be able to learn many of them quickly.  Then, she can play them for her church's services.  This will give her lots of performing experience, let her "serve God," learn religious music, all at once.  She may be invited to play with the choir at other area churches if she's good enough.  Perhaps, she could move on and play as a pianist with a Christian ensemble.  Usually, I think, the ensembles are mostly vocal, with piano serving more as an accompaniment, so she probably won't need the technical assurance necessary to tackle the most difficult classics.

I think one of the more popular Christian music pianists around today is a man called Anthony Burger:

  http://www.anthonyburger.com/home.htm

Maybe you could visit his contact page and email him, asking for some suggestions about Christian music that he plays.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2005, 02:01:24 AM »

Uh, well, I guess you will just have to transcribe those Hillsong and Integrity songs for piano, I know how you feel, the contemporary musicians in my previous church swear that contemporary Christian music are the only good music being produced nowadays.  Roll Eyes

I have no idea what you are talking about Huh. Hillsong? Integrity?

Any details?

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2005, 02:03:00 AM »



Another thought... why don't you steer into some chamber music and accompaning?  She may progress more quickly by having to play for/with other musicians, she would learn much more about musicianship, presence, and cooperation than she would sitting around playing by herself, plus there's plenty of sacred music in that arena. 

Actually, this apparently is what she wants to do. She wants to accompany her fellow worshippers at the piano. She wants to sit at the piano and play while they sing. The problem of course is that then I will be stuck with this horrendous pieces. My plan is to teach her superior sacred music, so that in the process she either gives up her original intentions, or learn enough from the good quality repertory to allow her to do her stuff independently.


Best wishes,
Bernhard.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2005, 02:04:42 AM »

Dear Prof. Bernhard:

Please be aware of the christian denomination of your student. Suggestions as Masses, Requiem, Ave Maria (Gounod, Bach or Schubert), no matter how beautiful musically, have their place mainly under catholic faith. On the other hand, for Evangelical, Protestant, and Baptist church, the praise music should be devoted strictly for the Lord. If she is Lutheran, as was J.S. Bach, I’m not sure, better ask her about it. She surely have a pastor who is going to guide her in this area.

About her interest only for christian music, take into account that is due to a deep love for the Lord in her heart, and it seems to me admirable. She wants to devote her musical talents only to the Lord. All her motivation, her gifts, her sacrifice in piano playing are to honour Him. To grasp this is beyond the scope of anybody who doesn’t share her faith. So I think that your approach is wise: To guide her efforts towards the best music that the human being has created for praising the Lord. I don’t like christian pop music either.

Bach’s Chorales are fine. Piano transcriptions of Erwarte Dich, Jesus Joy of Men and Sleepers Awake are also suitable. Bach is the main composer for this kind of music, I think.

Best regards.


Indeed, Rafant, you got very close to the whole situation here. As far as I can tell her denomination is Baptist. But as I said above, she is Chinese, so I am not sure she actually understands such divisions – this is all she was exposed to in China, and I think it was a bit shocking for her to realise that “Christianity” is a quite large umbrella. So although she told me she is Baptist, she was not sure herself  - I will have another Chinese student talk to her and translate.

Quote
She wants to devote her musical talents only to the Lord. All her motivation, her gifts, her sacrifice in piano playing are to honour Him. To grasp this is beyond the scope of anybody who doesn’t share her faith.

Yes, this is exactly what she told me. You grasped the situation admirably.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2005, 02:07:23 AM »



Ah, a favorite topic of mine.  There is a huge mine of material out there.  The trick will be to convince your student that indeed this is religious or spiritual.  I think you have taken the right tack by adopting a positive attitude and by steering her towards the great choral and orchestral classics by Bach and others.  And indeed if she’s convinced that this is the way to go, then you’ve not got a problem but a fantastic opportunity because she’ll work on the pieces you suggest with much more persistence, having a clear goal ahead.

I’d suggest you persist further by referring her to the great pianistic classics which were developed with explicit religious motivations:

1.     Franck, Prelude, chorale and fugue.  Both Aguettant and Cortot commented at length on its religious meaning in his famous book.

2.     Franck, Prelude, aria and final.  Cortot and Aguettant, similarly.  

3.     Liszt's Variations on Weinen, klagen, sorgen, zagen.  

4.     Busoni’s  Fantasia nach J.S. Bach.  Uses 4 chorales/hymns by Bach.  Composed in 4 days, in memory of his father.  Busoni wrote that when he performed it for the first time, people in the audience were weeping.  

5.     Liszt’s Funerailles.

6.     Alkan’s variations on Luther’s hymn Ein feste Burg.  I don’t know if this is any good musically – it’s not in print or on CD.

7.     Mendelssohn’s Prelude and Fugue in E minor which ends with a glorious chorale, practically identical to Ein feste Burg.

8.     Bach-Bauer, transcription of organ prelude Nun komm der Heiden Heiland.

9.     Liszt's Benediction de Dieu dans la solitude.

Several of these are on the two CDs Awadagin Pratt.

She won’t be able to do these right away.  But you can draw up a road-map of pieces – which I know is your strategy – so that she can get there.  The road-map could include some easier ones, which also have a clear religious motivation:

10.     Franck-Bauer, Prelude, fugue and variation.  Grade 8 level or so.

11.     Bach-Friedman’s Mein glaeubiges Herze, frohlocke.  About Grade 8, maybe only 7.  Out of print.  Get it on internet from the Australia National Library, $15 or so.  Super piece, lively, massive drama at end.  Played well by Petronel Malan in her CD Transfigured Bach.

12.     Paert’s Zur Genesung von Arinuschka.  Grade 1, but performance requires Grade 6 ability, I’d say.  

13.     Amy Beach’s Out of the Depths, Op. 130.

14.     Amy Beach’s By the still waters, Op. 114.

15.     There are several more pieces, some quite accessible for someone with Grade 5 to Grade 8 ability, in the CD by Elena Riu, Piano Icons for the 21st century.  Includes Tavener’s Ypakoe (which means “obedience” in Greek).

16.     I also agree with Belgedin who says that much of Bach is sacred in a sense.   Think of the symbolism in intervals common in that time – the tritone as the cross, etc.  The Sinfonia #9 in Fm would have been heard in Baroque times as having a strong religious sense.  The bad guys are the minor 9ths halfway through, which are finally overcome by good.  

17.     Hinson has put out 3 compendiums of works suitable for playing at church.  His famous book lists most of the pieces.

18.     There are more in Hinson which I’d noted when browsing.  If there is popular demand I can list those too.

Good luck.



Now we are talking!  Cheesy

Yes, Peter, thank you indeed for a most interesting list. I was beginning to wonder if the piano was more appropriate for “devilish” music (see the thread on “diabolus in music” started by EH Pianist).

You are right, the first 9 pieces you suggested are too difficult for her, but if she likes them we can prepare the way for them. I wil check the rest.

Could you give more details to the Hinson 3 compendiuns? (Title, publisher, etc.). I am not familiar with them.

Again thank you very much (feel free to list more! Wink)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.










Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2005, 02:10:56 AM »

Scriabin's Fifth sonata....perfect for the puritanical pianist Wink

Just curious, but roughly what level is your student at?

She is around grade 5-6.

Quote
You could perhaps give her some basic piano transcriptions of famous religious music-I'm sure you could find a good one of Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring, for example.

You could also find arrangements of famous hymns, like Amazing Grace, The Old Rugged Cross, etc.  Actually, I often find hymns to be good sight reading practice.

Yes, this is what I have suggested to her. Some she likes, some she does not. One problem is that she has some pretty fixed ideas about what "Christian music" is - namely the stuff they sing at her Church.


Quote
I'm afraid that your choices of piano music are limited to mostly very simple stuff.  With the exception of Messiaen and Bach, I haven't found much religious-type music to be very rewarding, and so am not terribly familiar with it.



Yes, I am starting to get this impression as well. Sad

Best wishes,
Bernhard.





Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2005, 02:23:11 AM »



I feel compelled to comment with respect to this.  Certain Christians simply don't like or have any interest in music other than overtly Christian music, perhaps your student is like this.  I agree with the above poster who suggested voice lessons if the student honestly loves Christian pop (which, IMO, is even worse than regular pop music).  Your best bet is to ask for the hymn book from her church, and teach her lots and lots of hymns.  They're fairly easy, so she should be able to learn many of them quickly.  Then, she can play them for her church's services.  This will give her lots of performing experience, let her "serve God," learn religious music, all at once.  She may be invited to play with the choir at other area churches if she's good enough.  Perhaps, she could move on and play as a pianist with a Christian ensemble.  Usually, I think, the ensembles are mostly vocal, with piano serving more as an accompaniment, so she probably won't need the technical assurance necessary to tackle the most difficult classics.

Yes. Your appraisal of the situation is correct.

Part of the problem is that she comes from China. She is not used to Western music (she had a lot of difficulty practising scales: she could not tell by ear where to stop!). She converted to Christianity as and adult and all she ever heard is this ghastly pop Christian music. She believes this to be the epitome of Western music, and would not believe me when I told her in no uncertain term that it was crap Grin

I have the music from her church. She got me a couple of CDs and the sheet music (actually fake books). I listened to it and was ready to confess any crime/secret! It was baaaaad!

Although she is now playing pieces of grade 5/6, she does not have yet the knowledge/skill to get a fake book and come up with noce arrangements. She wants to do what's on the CD, but this will take a while. This means, that if she wants to play this rubbish, I will have to sit down and write the arrangements myself. As far as I am concerned this will be a total waste of my time and a job I do not look forward to. So my (secret) plan is to improve her taste, teach her pieces that at least i have an interest on, and teach her how to do the arrangements herself so that she can do whatever she wants independently of me.

However to do that, I need some pieces that she is prepared to learn and that I am willing to teach. We must find some middle ground. Since I am not particularly interested in religious music per se (although I love stuff like Bach's Mass in B minor, I listen to it for its music, not for its religious program), I am (was) at a bit of a loss. But there have been many interesting replies to this thread (Thank you all! Cheesy), so at least now I have somewhere to begin.

Quote
I think one of the more popular Christian music pianists around today is a man called Anthony Burger:

  http://www.anthonyburger.com/home.htm

Maybe you could visit his contact page and email him, asking for some suggestions about Christian music that he plays.

Thank you for the suggestion, I will look into it. But if it is more drivel, then I will just stick with her own Church music.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2005, 02:25:49 AM »

This thread set me thinking. Is the piano, and music idiomatic to the piano not particularly appropriate for eliciting emotions of the “sacred”, “spiritual” (whatever religion/denomination) or for “contemplative” music? Is the piano more appropriate for “secular” programmes, or when religious, more amenable to depict the devil?

Any opinions/examples?

Best wishes,
Bernhard
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
ted
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 3277


« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2005, 02:29:03 AM »

Hey, just thought of a different angle. How would she like Johnson's "Carolina Shout" ? That's the most "Baptist" piano piece I could possibly think of and certainly religious, being a direct evocation of a Baptist service with its exhilarating call and response choruses.  
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

"It's a caution, grandson !"  -  My grandmother's reaction to almost any issue of the day.
op.109
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 16


« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2005, 02:38:02 AM »

You know, this may sound harsh, but if you don't want to teach the child this kind of music, perhaps you could just drop her as a student.  It would be better for the both of you-you could concentrate on music you like, and perhaps you could hook her up with somebody who could teach her pop music.  Maybe the official pianist at her church would accept her as a student.

I think there was a lady called Fanny Crosby (or something like that) who wrote lots of famous hymns.  Perhaps you could check some of those out.

Quote
This thread set me thinking. Is the piano, and music idiomatic to the piano not particularly appropriate for eliciting emotions of the “sacred”, “spiritual” (whatever religion/denomination) or for “contemplative” music? Is the piano more appropriate for “secular” programmes, or when religious, more amenable to depict the devil?

Any opinions/examples?

No, I don't believe that the piano is inherently diabolic or heavenly.  It can range the entire gamut: what could be more pure and beautiful than late Beethoven; hear the rage and motoric fury of some modern compositions-devilish music if there ever was any!  I believe that most great music is pretty much secular (again, with a few exceptions).  This probably stems from the fact that secular composers often compose for the instruments themselves, utilizing them to full capacity.  Religious composers, though must appeal to the masses of believers who will be their primary audience.  Their audiences want simple, easy to follow melody, something that they can sing (albeit poorly!) to.  Because the melodies are to be singable by those with no training, these composers cannot push their music to be anything difficult, complex, or revolutionary.  Just a thought, anyway...
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
ted
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 3277


« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2005, 05:30:16 AM »

All music is completely abstract and the listener is at liberty to see or hear anything in it he wishes.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

"It's a caution, grandson !"  -  My grandmother's reaction to almost any issue of the day.
galonia
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 472


« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2005, 11:04:32 AM »

Ah, Chinese Baptists... do you mean she likes music produced by the likes of groups such as this:

http://www.frontline.org.hk/frontline.htm

Unfortunately, they don't have any music on their site - I'll bug my sister about that... but I'll now stop ragging on her, or else she will stop giving me their CDs for free and I'll actually have to spend money on them (God forbid!)

 Shocked
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2005, 12:58:21 PM »

You know, this may sound harsh, but if you don't want to teach the child this kind of music, perhaps you could just drop her as a student.  

The "child" is in her mid thirties. Grin Wink
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2005, 01:01:09 PM »

Hey, just thought of a different angle. How would she like Johnson's "Carolina Shout" ? That's the most "Baptist" piano piece I could possibly think of and certainly religious, being a direct evocation of a Baptist service with its exhilarating call and response choruses.  

Ted, this certainly takes the prize for the most hilarious suggestion! Grin This is certainly something I am going to learn myself. Cheesy But I doubt it will meet with anything but disbelief from my student Roll Eyes he he.

And I aggree with you: music is abstract - perhaps a reason why overtly religious music is mostly for voice: You need the lyrics.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2005, 01:08:24 PM »

Ah, Chinese Baptists... do you mean she likes music produced by the likes of groups such as this:

http://www.frontline.org.hk/frontline.htm

Unfortunately, they don't have any music on their site - I'll bug my sister about that... but I'll now stop ragging on her, or else she will stop giving me their CDs for free and I'll actually have to spend money on them (God forbid!)

 Shocked

What a good idea! I googled and lo and behold, Hallelujah! here is the stuff!

http://www.sop.org/eng/products/SB.htm

Yes I want to steer clear (very clear) away from it. I want superior quality classical pieces by superior composers to replace it! Wink

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
op.109
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 16


« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2005, 01:56:36 PM »

Maybe you could convince her to play music by a semi "Christian" composer.  I'm not sure of the background/context of this quote, but I've read in several places that Rachmaninoff was quoted saying:

"No. I owe to God the gifts given me, to God alone. Without Him, I am nothing."

There!  Tell her that Rachmaninoff was a super-spiritual Christian, and mention Vespers, the all-night-vigil, to bolster your case.  Maybe then she'll try some of his music...
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
rafant
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 301


« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2005, 07:30:02 PM »

Prof. Bernhard, aren't you "afraid" that your student could access this forum and read this thread? Wink
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
rafant
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 301


« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2005, 09:08:58 PM »

Prof. Bernhard, here is one of the Peter_G_Moll's references in his excellent post:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0739013866/qid=1.

The autor, Prof Maurice Hinson, has a top job in a Baptist college and have an outstanding work about the piano repertory in many books.

Peter did an excellent introduction to the christian music. I was worried because I didn't know that there was more than enough classical christian repertory, as alternative to Hymns, and was thinking in playing some soft pieces of the non-religious repertory in my church. But I see it's not necessary. Thanks a lot Peter, I can plan better my future musical contributions to my church's cult when the ocassion arises.



Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
galonia
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 472


« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2005, 09:48:46 AM »



What a good idea! I googled and lo and behold, Hallelujah! here is the stuff!

http://www.sop.org/eng/products/SB.htm

Yes I want to steer clear (very clear) away from it. I want superior quality classical pieces by superior composers to replace it! Wink

Best wishes,
Bernhard.


Bernhard, your link is a classic!  It made me think, perhaps since I dislike this music so much, I should write better music for the purposes of worship and thus stop my sister from propogating her "drivel".

Then I realised, why doesn't your student do that herself?  She should write some piano music to glorify Almighty God.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
peter_g_moll
PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 45


« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2005, 01:07:46 PM »


Now we are talking!  Cheesy

Yes, Peter, thank you indeed for a most interesting list. I was beginning to wonder if the piano was more appropriate for “devilish” music (see the thread on “diabolus in music” started by EH Pianist).

You are right, the first 9 pieces you suggested are too difficult for her, but if she likes them we can prepare the way for them. I wil check the rest.

Could you give more details to the Hinson 3 compendiuns? (Title, publisher, etc.). I am not familiar with them.

Again thank you very much (feel free to list more! Wink)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.


I've given the full references in my original post above.  Good luck!

Peter
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

Peter Moll
peter_g_moll
PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 45


« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2005, 01:38:10 PM »

Prof. Bernhard, here is one of the Peter_G_Moll's references in his excellent post:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0739013866/qid=1.

The autor, Prof Maurice Hinson, has a top job in a Baptist college and have an outstanding work about the piano repertory in many books.

Peter did an excellent introduction to the christian music. I was worried because I didn't know that there was more than enough classical christian repertory, as alternative to Hymns, and was thinking in playing some soft pieces of the non-religious repertory in my church. But I see it's not necessary. Thanks a lot Peter, I can plan better my future musical contributions to my church's cult when the ocassion arises.

Dear Rafant,

Glad to be of help.  I've added a whole lot more references in my original post above.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

Peter Moll
pskim
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 124


« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2005, 03:37:23 PM »

Hi Bernhard.  If you are interested, I did some of my own transcriptions of my favorite hymns.  Some are hard and some are not too hard.  There are some other arrangements that I made on my SibeliusMusic.com homepage.  Take a look.

http://members.sibeliusmusic.com/pskim
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
rafant
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 301


« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2005, 07:24:25 PM »

Antonin Dvorak composed his Opus 99 called "Biblical Songs". They are 10 pieces based on the Psalms. It sounds to me as very suitable for a student interested both in singing and playing.
But I confess I don`t know the pieces, and I'm not aware of the level required to play them. A bigger problem could be the language of the lyrics, which I have no idea.
They are available in midi format in classicalarchives.com.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
Bartolomeo
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 23


« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2005, 06:57:59 PM »

Hi Bernhard

I play keys for a contemporary Christian band as well as playing piano and organ in church.  There is a great deal of disdain between performers in the pop/rock and classical styles, which is unfortunate.  The most skilled keyboard/organ/piano players in the pop/rock styles have classical training.

The suggestions thus far have been excellent ones, with regard to pre-1950s music that has a place in worship.  As a practical matter, most of the best classical music written specifically for use in worship was written for organ.  Some transfers well to piano while some does not.  When I am asked to play a service on piano, I prefer to seek out good classical music and incorporate it into worship where instrumental music is called for rather than trying to repurpose organ music.  Beethoven, Chopin, Schubert, any of the masters from the classical and romantic periods.

The Christian Board of Publication (www.cpb21.com) publishes a hymnal supplement called "Chalice praise" that has keyboard arrangements of many of the major contemporary worship songs.  It is now somewhat out of date but covers much of the "canon" of praise music.  Be sure to get the keyboard edition rather than the fakebook version.

Word Music (www.wordmusic.com) is another publisher to remember.  I have been very pleased with their arrangements in the sense that they appeal to listeners whose musical tastes may be limited to popular material but yet maintain a degree of artistic and musical integrety.  Looking over the titles, "25 Top Praise and Worship Songs for Solo Piano" covers much of the same ground as "Chalice praise," though they have a "volume 2" that has more recent stuff (last 5-10 years).

Word Music also have a series of graded piano solos for praise and worship that may be more suitable if your student needs simpler material, and they publish the "Celebration Hymnal" which is a combination of hymns and early '80s soft rock style praise songs.

Even though this music may not speak to you personally, your student may find it fulfilling and it may ultimately lead her both to greater skill with the piano and to a deeper sense of musical taste.

Kindest regards

Bartolomeo
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
heldig
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 11


« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2005, 03:16:11 PM »

An interesting discussion - I would like to add some more suggestions.

 I think Hinson's book "Liszt: Selected Intermediate to Early Advanced Piano Solos" would be very useful. In it are seven chorales, Christmas Song S102, Ave Verum Corpus (from Mozart), and The Shepherds at the Manger S186:3. These could easily lead to the many other pieces written by Liszt that have a religious name and/or theme.

Grieg's Lyric Pieces include a couple of Elegies, as well as "Bells", "Gratitude", "At Thy Feet" and "Wedding Day at Troldhaugen."

MacDowell's Sea Pictures No.3 A.D. MDCXX is a tribute to the Pilgrims.

Schumann's Op 68 includes the Chorale "Rejoice O My Soul."

Mendelssohn's Op.72 is Six Christmas Pieces.

Some of Burgmullers Op.100 Etudes have titles such as: Sincerity, Innocence, Sorrow, etc that could easily be incorporated into a Christian theme.

Gurlitt Op.140 n12 is "In the Church"

Rebikov wrote a colection of very easy pieces called The Christmas Gifts.

Many well known carols and hymns were written by composers such as Haydn, Mendelssohn. CH Parry wrote many works that could be used. Any work titled Elegie could fit into a religious theme. In addition, several earlier composers were members of the 'church' - Scarlatti, Soler, Vivaldi for instance.

I think it would be possible to use Spirituals and some Folk/National music quite effectively, e.g. Samuel Taylor-Coleridge's 'Deep River' and 'Steal Away'

Regards,
Elizabeth
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

What I do today is important
because I am giving up one day of my life for it.
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2005, 11:49:50 PM »

Prof. Bernhard, aren't you "afraid" that your student could access this forum and read this thread? Wink


You can drop the “prof.” Rafant! Wink

No, I am not afraid at all. Quite the opposite, I have printed the answers and gave to her for her to read (she thinks I am pulling her leg when I tell her that Christian pop is not the summit of Western art music Roll Eyes).

Quote
Prof. Bernhard, here is one of the Peter_G_Moll's references in his excellent post:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0739013866/qid=1.

The autor, Prof Maurice Hinson, has a top job in a Baptist college and have an outstanding work about the piano repertory in many books.

Peter did an excellent introduction to the christian music. I was worried because I didn't know that there was more than enough classical christian repertory, as alternative to Hymns, and was thinking in playing some soft pieces of the non-religious repertory in my church. But I see it's not necessary. Thanks a lot Peter, I can plan better my future musical contributions to my church's cult when the ocassion arises.

Thanks for the link. Indeed, Hinson’s collection is excellent. Most of the music is not overtly religious, but appropriate for Church (as the title says).

I also found this very interesting site, which discusses the subject of sacred music and makes a very useful distinction between sacred music and liturgical music (that is, music used in Church service):

http://www.nd.edu/~icl/piano-resource.html
(Liturgical and sacred piano music)

Quote
Antonin Dvorak composed his Opus 99 called "Biblical Songs". They are 10 pieces based on the Psalms. It sounds to me as very suitable for a student interested both in singing and playing.
But I confess I don`t know the pieces, and I'm not aware of the level required to play them. A bigger problem could be the language of the lyrics, which I have no idea.
They are available in midi format in classicalarchives.com.

I am not familiar with these pieces either, but I will have a look. Thanks Smiley.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2005, 11:51:21 PM »



Bernhard, your link is a classic!  It made me think, perhaps since I dislike this music so much, I should write better music for the purposes of worship and thus stop my sister from propogating her "drivel".

Then I realised, why doesn't your student do that herself?  She should write some piano music to glorify Almighty God.

This would be a good idea except for the fact that she is not at all dissatisfied with the music (I am!). She is quite happy with it! Roll Eyes
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2005, 11:52:40 PM »



I've given the full references in my original post above.  Good luck!

Peter

Thank you very much Peter Cheesy, your post has been very helpful. I am now looking at all these choices with my student so we can decide where to go next.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2005, 11:54:09 PM »

Hi Bernhard.  If you are interested, I did some of my own transcriptions of my favorite hymns.  Some are hard and some are not too hard.  There are some other arrangements that I made on my SibeliusMusic.com homepage.  Take a look.

http://members.sibeliusmusic.com/pskim

Thank you Pskim Cheesy.

I will have a look.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2005, 11:55:22 PM »

Hi Bernhard

I play keys for a contemporary Christian band as well as playing piano and organ in church.  There is a great deal of disdain between performers in the pop/rock and classical styles, which is unfortunate.  The most skilled keyboard/organ/piano players in the pop/rock styles have classical training.

The suggestions thus far have been excellent ones, with regard to pre-1950s music that has a place in worship.  As a practical matter, most of the best classical music written specifically for use in worship was written for organ.  Some transfers well to piano while some does not.  When I am asked to play a service on piano, I prefer to seek out good classical music and incorporate it into worship where instrumental music is called for rather than trying to repurpose organ music.  Beethoven, Chopin, Schubert, any of the masters from the classical and romantic periods.

The Christian Board of Publication (www.cpb21.com) publishes a hymnal supplement called "Chalice praise" that has keyboard arrangements of many of the major contemporary worship songs.  It is now somewhat out of date but covers much of the "canon" of praise music.  Be sure to get the keyboard edition rather than the fakebook version.

Word Music (www.wordmusic.com) is another publisher to remember.  I have been very pleased with their arrangements in the sense that they appeal to listeners whose musical tastes may be limited to popular material but yet maintain a degree of artistic and musical integrety.  Looking over the titles, "25 Top Praise and Worship Songs for Solo Piano" covers much of the same ground as "Chalice praise," though they have a "volume 2" that has more recent stuff (last 5-10 years).

Word Music also have a series of graded piano solos for praise and worship that may be more suitable if your student needs simpler material, and they publish the "Celebration Hymnal" which is a combination of hymns and early '80s soft rock style praise songs.

Even though this music may not speak to you personally, your student may find it fulfilling and it may ultimately lead her both to greater skill with the piano and to a deeper sense of musical taste.

Kindest regards

Bartolomeo

Thank you for your suggestions and insights Cheesy. I will look into it.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
bernhard
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5078


« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2005, 11:56:45 PM »

An interesting discussion - I would like to add some more suggestions.

 I think Hinson's book "Liszt: Selected Intermediate to Early Advanced Piano Solos" would be very useful. In it are seven chorales, Christmas Song S102, Ave Verum Corpus (from Mozart), and The Shepherds at the Manger S186:3. These could easily lead to the many other pieces written by Liszt that have a religious name and/or theme.

Grieg's Lyric Pieces include a couple of Elegies, as well as "Bells", "Gratitude", "At Thy Feet" and "Wedding Day at Troldhaugen."

MacDowell's Sea Pictures No.3 A.D. MDCXX is a tribute to the Pilgrims.

Schumann's Op 68 includes the Chorale "Rejoice O My Soul."

Mendelssohn's Op.72 is Six Christmas Pieces.

Some of Burgmullers Op.100 Etudes have titles such as: Sincerity, Innocence, Sorrow, etc that could easily be incorporated into a Christian theme.

Gurlitt Op.140 n12 is "In the Church"

Rebikov wrote a colection of very easy pieces called The Christmas Gifts.

Many well known carols and hymns were written by composers such as Haydn, Mendelssohn. CH Parry wrote many works that could be used. Any work titled Elegie could fit into a religious theme. In addition, several earlier composers were members of the 'church' - Scarlatti, Soler, Vivaldi for instance.

I think it would be possible to use Spirituals and some Folk/National music quite effectively, e.g. Samuel Taylor-Coleridge's 'Deep River' and 'Steal Away'

Regards,
Elizabeth

Thank you for your suggestions. Cheesy

For those of you that are interested, here is the list of pieces in vols. 1 and 2 of Hinson’s collection mentioned above:

Entrance composed by Anonymous
Aria BWV 515, composed by Johann Sebastian Bach
Choral BWV 514, composed by Johann Sebastian Bach
Pastorale Op. 100, No. 3, composed by Johann Friedrich Burgmuller
Tender Flower Op. 100, No. 10, composed by Johann Friedrich Burgmuller
Arietta composed by Johann Heinrich Buttstedt
Prelude Op. 28, No. 20, C Minor, composed by Frederic Chopin
Melody Op. 176, No. 3, composed by Victor Alphonse Duvernoy
Old Christmas Carol composed by Cesar Franck
Prayer composed by Cesar Franck
Song composed by Cesar Franck, from the Creuse.
Dedication Op. 1, No. 1, composed by Enrique Granados
Lullaby composed by Edvard Grieg, from Valders.
Andantino Op. 205, No. 1, composed by Cornelius Gurlitt
Moderato Op. 205, No. 2, composed by Cornelius Gurlitt
Sarabande composed by George Frideric Handel
Prayer composed by Genari Karganov
Album Leaf Op. 7, composed by Theodor Furchtegott Kirchner
Tranquil and Expressive Op. 62, No. 8, composed by Theodor Furchtegott Kirchner
Moderato composed by Johann Philipp Kirnberger
Andante Sostenuto Op. 72, No. 2, composed by Felix Mendelssohn
Allegro K. 3, Bb Major, composed by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
Canzonet (Song) composed by Christian Gottlob Neefe
Air D Minor, composed by Henry Purcell
Andante Op. 2, No. 2, composed by Alexander Reinagle
Elegy Op. 183, composed by Carl Reinecke
Prelude Op. 183, composed by Carl Reinecke
Song Op. 183, composed by Carl Reinecke
Larghetto K. 34, composed by Domenico Scarlatti
Sonata K. 32, D Minor, composed by Domenico Scarlatti
Andante composed by Franz Schubert
Chorale Op. 68, No. 4, composed by Robert Schumann
A Famous Melody by Beethoven composed by Robert Schumann
Litttle Cradle Song Op. 124, No. 6, composed by Robert Schumann
Little Study Op. 124, No. 6, composed by Robert Schumann
Melody Op. 68, No. 1, composed by Robert Schumann
Norse Song Op. 68, No. 40, composed by Robert Schumann
In Church Op. 39, No. 24, composed by Peter Ilyich Tchaikovsky
Morning Prayer Op. 39, No. 1, composed by Peter Ilyich Tchaikovsky
Serious Feelings composed by Daniel Gottlob Turk
Andantino composed by Johann Georg Witthauer

Song of the Shepherd Boy composed by Samuel Arnold
Prelude BWV 943, C Major, composed by Johann Sebastian Bach
Prelude BWV 934, C Minor, composed by Johann Sebastian Bach
Theme from Variations on "God Save the King" WoO 78, composed by Ludwig van Beethoven
Harmony of the Angels Op. 100, No. 21, composed by Johann Friedrich Burgmuller
Ave Maria Op. 100, No. 19, composed by Johann Friedrich Burgmuller
Largo BI 109, composed by Frederic Chopin
Prelude Op. 28, No. 6, B Minor, composed by Frederic Chopin
Prelude Op. 28, No. 4, E Minor, composed by Frederic Chopin
Poco Allegretto composed by Cesar Franck
Maestoso composed by Cesar Franck
Prayer Op. 43, No. 2, composed by Reinhold Gliere
Elegy Op. 46, No. 29, composed by Alexander Goedicke
Prelude composed by Charles Gounod
Arietta Op. 12, No. 1, composed by Edvard Grieg
Romanze composed by Franz Joseph Haydn
Rondo composed by James Hook
Andantino composed by Aram Khachaturian
Evening Song composed by Aram Khachaturian
Intermezzo composed by Theodor Kirchner
Consolation No. 1 G. 172, No. 1, composed by Franz Liszt
Song without Words Op. 30, No. 3, composed by Felix Mendelssohn
Charakterstuck Op. 7, No. 6, composed by Felix Mendelssohn
Etude Op. 91, No. 10, G Minor, composed by Moritz Moszkowski
Idylle Op. 94, No. 3, composed by Moritz Moszkowski
A Tear composed by Modest Moussorgsky, from Pieces Diverses.
Larghetto F Major, composed by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
Menuet composed by Jean-Philippe Rameau
Reconciliation Op. 17, No. 20, composed by Max Reger
Andante D. 29, C Major, composed by Franz Schubert
Theme Op. 145, composed by Franz Schubert
From Foreign Lands and People Op. 15, No. 1, composed by Robert Schumann
Mignon Op. 68, No. 35, composed by Robert Schumann
Theme with Variations Op. 188, No. 2, composed by Robert Schumann

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)
keys
PS Silver Member
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 221


« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2005, 12:29:52 AM »

Wow, what an amazing thread! I’ve played in church for years and haven’t touched half of those songs. Sacred music has really taken a turn for the worst just lately, the church used to have such a distinctive sound. Now everyone is trying to copy the flavor of the week bands. When you look back forty years ago, were the congregations singing Elvis-style tunes? Nope. Elvis was singing hymns.
Do you find this post useful? Yes / No
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  


Need more info or help?


Search pianostreet.com - the web's largest resource of information about piano playing:



 
Jump to:  


Most popular classical piano composers:
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!

o