Starting at 23

[corueda]

Hello, mi name is Carlos Rueda. I always love the music but I never started to play any instrument. Do you think that I could start to play piano first? Or, there are some skills that I should have learned before? I´m 23 and able to dedicate to the music. -sorry for the english-

[lostinidlewonder]

If you have had no instrumental experience to dedicate yourself to music now is risky because you have many many years to catch up, so hopefully you can generate income in another way, that also brings up problems because if you work to make money to live that takes time away from your music, so it is hard. So short answer no, long answer no, but
If you want it enough and know how to give an audience/student what they didnt know they needed, then go for it! If you think you can't give anything special, then don't even try it. Make it a hobby.

[timothy42b]

Piano can't be learned in ten minutes. 

Therefore there is an upper limit on how old you can start.  For example, if you are going to want to get to the level of skill of someone who has studied for 8 years, you need to be young enough to have 8 years left.

At your age unless you have a terminal illness there is nothing to stop you.

It is unlikely you will make a career out of being a concert pianist, but possible to get to almost any skill level you want below that.

If you've never played any instrument piano is an ideal one to start with.  It will teach you the entire musical language, which then applies to every other form of music. 

It is true in my opinion (though some argue) that older people learn more slowly.  You however are not yet old.  I would not recommend waiting until your 50's, I can tell you from experience it is frustrating learning at that age.  But not impossible, just somewhat more difficult. 

[pianowelsh]

I had a pupil aged 70 who had never touched the instrument before and they learnt. It was very slow and they took to reading slowly (new concepts become harder to integrate) but there is no rewason why you shouldn't become quite good. Have you studied (a student) at 23 you are still very receptive and should be able to handle new skills quite easily - Go for it and enjoy! Don't set aims to high to begin with enjoy it first and see where it takes you!

[lagin]

Hey there,
Don't feel discouraged.  I started taking piano lessons a year and a half ago at age eighteen with only very basic concepts of rhythm and note--Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge!   By practicing around 4 hours a day, I'm already in grade nine Royal Conservatory and have three students.  Mind you, I can't take the credit, because I know it's all because of God.  I'm not just saying that, I really know it's true.  If music is a gift, then it must have a Giver!  I did spent alot of time doing theory courses, too, but they're not that hard.  I don't know if it would go that fast for you, but you could always give it a try.  Make sure you find a good teacher though.  It's way easier than trying to teach yourself.

[key of c]

You are very young and you can learn what ever you want.
If you are able to dedicate yourself to music - and your interest is high - you can learn very much!

I am much older than you - and I have learned more in the last few years than I dreamed possible and am still learning and teaching too.

There are many different avenues in music besides concert pianists!  I did not hear you say that was your desire anyway.   There are music teachers, music therapists, performers at weddings, etc.  You may desire to be play piano at church and lead worship some day.  But you may not want to do it for an occupation anyway.  If it is in your heart - that is something directing you.

Even though I teach piano,  the most important thing to me is that through music I have learned how to pray and experience great peace through music.  There is nothing like being alone and playing the piano with your heart to the Lord.  He touches music that is given to Him.

[Kenasam]

I am dismayed at some of the responses here regarding adult beginners on piano. Some of you make it sound hopeless! 
I have been teaching piano for over 30 years, focusing on adult learners and I love teaching adults.  With good instruction and student self-motivation and perseverance (as well as diligent practice), adult beginners on the piano can make enormous strides.  No prior knowledge of music is necessary, as concepts and theory can all be taught at the same time the student learns how to play the piano.  Some students progress to very difficult music.  It all depends on one's goals and patience. 

I have taught all ages, from the very young up through around 80 years old.  I think that as people get older, some put "barriers" in the way.  A good teacher is aware of this and will work around these "barriers" to help the student to achieve.  Don't ever think that an older person is incapable or dumb!!  No way!

Nowhere in the original posting did I see anything about the 23 year old wanting to become a concert pianist.  I doubt that that is her goal.  Certainly she is of a fine age to learn piano.  I have no doubt about that!

Currently I have a 22 year old man in one of my college piano classes.  He was previously told by an unnammed piano teacher that he was too "old" to learn to play the piano, that it was hopeless etc.  What horrible things to say to a student!  I am glad to report that after a few weeks with me, he is doing quite well, thank you.

I just had to get that off my chest!  I really get irked with some of the preconceived notions of teachers out there...

 
 

[m1469]

Well this happens to be a subject that I feel quite passionately about.  Deep down I am persuaded that it is never too late for a person  to achieve a masterful piano experience.  In my experience the main barriers for people regarding progress are:

mentality
time/commitment
motivation

If an individual has the mentality of achievement, they will achieve.  If an individual has the time and motivation to put forth energy toward a desired goal, they will claim it.  I would also note that one's expectations and preconceptions about what exactly one wishes to achieve and what we actually achieve are perhaps always very different from each other (or if they are the same, we don't necessarily know it).  In other words, there is really no way to know exactly what a person is actually achieving by reaching any particular goal, other than some form of movement in life.  This is not an argument in favor of not setting goals, just a thought toward setting realistic ones.

By "realistic", I do not mean shallow and meaningless but quite the opposite.  If making music is a goal, a concert pianist (btw, what does that really mean anyway, to be a concert pianist?) is not necessarily achieving any greater heights than is the five year old beginner with "Mary had a little lamb".   Sure there are differences in the complexity of the music itself, but not for the individuals playing the music to match their levels.  So for a 5 year old beginning learner, "Mary had a little Lamb" may be some version of complexity as is Rachmaninov's 2nd piano sonata for an "advanced" learner.   

So what is the goal when one decides to study the piano long term?  What are we really talking about when we speak of music as an occupation (he he)?

Furthermore, whether a person has an invitation for a concert career or not, there is nothing stopping a person from setting up their own performance engagements, and lostinidlewonder you have been an encourager in the past on this front.  Also, there are amateur competitions that demand a high level of musicianship with open ends on the higher age caps.  These types of things can be great events to aim for if it is motivating an idividual to learn about music (again, what is one really achieving?).

corueda, I think probably you would just like some encouragement.  I would encourage you to do what you wish, set some specific goals and set out on a path with a knowledgeable teacher (if possible) to reach those goals and actually, you are already on it!   Probably one of the main points is to enjoy the process and see what kinds of things you discover along the way. Ultimately I think  it is all and only a path of discovery with glimmers of arrival points.

In the broadest sense, an idividual's goals will either pertain to committing to a lifetime's worth of study including repertoire that would require a good amount of preparation, or they do not.  I do not think there is any form of in-between for anybody.  And why would either of these types of goals be unrealistic for anybody at any age?

This is maybe helpful and maybe not (just ignore me if it is not  ), either way it is only food for thought.

Here are some links to threads where topics similar or pertaining to this one have been discussed.  You may find them inspriring and helpful in your endeavors.

Sincerely,
m1469




https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=7281824873422c2b3e470cc094ea95af&topic=2125.msg17864#msg17864
(It does not matter what is the actual relationship between age and accomplishment. What matters is that the only correct philosophy is to believe that age does not matter at all. If you believe otherwise your own belief will be the source of your limitations. - Bernhrard)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2976.msg26082.html#msg26082
(benefits of starting later)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,143.msg35967.html#msg35967
(comparison between adult beginner and a child)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3992.msg36199.html#msg36199
(Do children really learn faster than adults?)

[intervals]

Do it Carlos, and do not let any fears stop you!

I was gratified to read the last few posts, which offer similar encouragement.

A good teacher will help you immensely.  The hard part will be finding a teacher who is best for you and can help you accomplish what you want.

Piano has a distinct advantage over other instruments in that every note you've heard is laid out before you.  Also, the repetitive sequence of 2 black keys and 3 black keys gives an instant reference to help you know what note you're playing.  (I've always had trouble with other instruments because, to my eye, they don't have a pattern).

Do you have an ear for music?  If you can hum or whistle, you have an ear and will be able to play songs from memory.  But be warned that on a piano (or any instrument), this will take work to develop and refine, and it's a separate talent from learning to sight read.

Again, I say go for it.   And don't worry about your English -- it was perfectly clear to me, AND it was far better than my Spanish!

[sonatainfsharp]

If you are serious, then 23 is a perfect age!

[MasterTuner]

Do it. Do it. Do it.  Don't ever let anyone tell you can't.  It is very possible to reach the highest levels possible.  The "late starter" myth is all superstition.

[ranakor]

i just started at 20 & i don't feel like i'm being held back by my age

keep in mind kids who start at age 10 are 10 years over you but... are those the same years as those you're planning to put in piano? most of them played maybe 1 hour a week total in theyr early years so keep in mind that catching up at least the 1st few years will come very fast if you are serious about piano (& even more rewarding than it would be to them due to the fast progression)

[lostinidlewonder]

I find when I teach people who say they have had ZERO musical experience at all (that includes listening experience which is the worse inexperience you can ever have imo), it can be a very very tough uphill battle. Some people just cannot develop the co-ordination required for a musical instrument and I have really learnt to accept peoples limitations in that respect. But in saying that, I am still to meet someone who is an utterly hopeless case! I like to believe everything can be learnt, it's just at different rates. If the rate is snail slow then maybe they should learn a different instrument, or maybe become a music academic, if you are not angry enough to become a music critic that is

What I do with a lot of my adult students is make them do co-ordination excersises. For example forget about playing a tune, but focus on playing different combinations of taps in each hand. Like x notes in RH against y notes in LH  played together. Increase the complexities of the beats and rhythms. From that I have found a lot of late starters who have coordination problems at the piano can gather some confidence in their ability to tackle their initial pieces.

Each person has unique coordination difficulties and it is always important to know what they are even for experienced players. Jazz music would definatly be great to develop a more advanced sense of rhythm, since it is afterall music of rhythm! Listen to some of it and see if you can tap with your hands lines that you are listening to, if you can do that it will only further improve your ability at an instrument.

[c18cont]

Let's be less elitist.

Any can learn piano...nobody says they will be a master...but most of you are not either...!  Why not encourage this hopeful student?

John Cont

[xvimbi]

Carlos, what are you waiting for? I hope I won't see a post in the future "Hi, my name is Carlos, I am 24 years old, and I am wondering if I should start to learn the piano."

At this age, you have some very significant advantages over young kids. One is that you know you love music, so you are already motivated. The other one that I find very valuable is that you can approach the piano with a rational attitude. The intellectual interactions between you and your teacher will be on a completely different level. You are able to grasp abstract concepts, evaluate things critically, give solid feedback; in short - you will be the delight of any teacher. Teachers love students like you. They really see that their work has an impact.

There is only one thing that will be very frustrating to you: you probably know already what pieces you would like to learn and how you would like to play them if you could play. Your musical imagination will likely be on the level of many a concert pianist, but your technical skills are non-existent. You know you must bring out that top note in this chord, but you have no idea how. Don't get discouraged by this. Looked at this "problem" the right way will give you tremendous additional motivation. And again to the delight of your teacher, you will be able to play beginners pieces in a musical way. Teachers usually don't like teaching Fuer Elise or a simple Bach Minuet to a kid, because they butcher these pieces, but they love working on them with adults.

Finally, because you can approach a new topic in a rational way, I'd like to give you one piece of advice for your pianistic education: focus on proper, healthy technique from the start.

Enjoy 

[pianowelsh]

Its true the major criterior is application if its what you love and really want to do then people are capable of remarkable achievements but it has to be Realistically faced that whether you start at 3 or 23 or 43 the chances of making it at the highest level are to but it brutally VERY slim - thats not to decry anyones ability/talent/enthusiam but it is a FACT of life that there are way too many talented pianists and way too few audiences to support them. Every year thousands of extremely talented students graduate from the worlds best schools and try to get into performing careers - and don't - dose this mean they are bad? does this mean they didnt work hard enough? dose this mean they didnt want it enough? - give me a break ! of course it dosent but NOone can say - this one will make it or that one will make it ! its not that simple - therefore my reaction would be a cautious one. Carlos we'd love you to make it and you should definately devote time to it if you enjoy it but dont let striving after the pinnacle consume you because frankly life is more! and the chances of anyone making it are miniscule.  My honest advice to all students is to take your studies seriously - work hard where your at and enjoy the learning process  always aim to be better but be ready to accept ok - this is where im at! Its incredibly sad to see a dedicated piano major who has given literally their life to studying the piano for years and years turn round at the end of a DMus and realize that they arent going to make it and then work through the fact that really thats all they were good at and it wasnt enough. Be rounded and enjoy life - if it works out great but honestly dont let it consume you.

[m1469]

If an individual is not consumed with reaching the highest levels, what exactly are they consumed with then?  I suppose it all depends on what one deems as the "highest levels".  Just because something looks and seems a certain way, does not necessarily make it so.

In my opinion a person does themselves well by being most certainly consumed with striving for what is the highest levels for them.  What challenges an individual to keep discovering deeper and deeper aspects of life and their unique expression of it.  This is what I think of as anybody's highest level anyway, and that is realistic for anybody; the only way to get there is through a constant effort toward it.

I have a feeling that even those people whom have achieved things that others choose to worship, have not reached their full potential either.  I thnk the vision is forever greater than the achievement in the long term and probably the reverse is true within the moment.    Again, I think that what one is actually achieving and what one may appear to be achieving may be two somewhat different things.

Just thought I would throw a little passion into the conversation.

m1469

[abell88]

An interesting discussion...especially since the original poster has not been active on the board since the day after he asked his original question

[c18cont]

Hey Abell,

You noticed that also...

John Cont

[m1469]

Well, I don't think these discussions are really about just one person and at a certain one point in time.  Regardless of the original poster, the ideas are important and will come up again and again.  Perhaps somebody has already read this thread when it would have otherwise been missed and it may even have helped them in some way.

Besides, now there is another thread capable of inspiring people who feel they are starting late, for me to neatly index  .

m1469

[Torp]

There is no time like the present, and the present is always NOW!!

Jef

[Kenasam]

I find when I teach people who say they have had ZERO musical experience at all (that includes listening experience which is the worse inexperience you can ever have imo), it can be a very very tough uphill battle.

I beg to differ.  Granted, only having listening experience versus playing experience is not the same.  But, I tell my adult students that it is still helpful.  One has to apply what they've heard to piano playing.  Such things as steady beat, melody, harmony, rhythms, etc.  To recognize it from hearing it and then applying it into their actual piano playing

Some people just cannot develop the co-ordination required for a musical instrument and I have really learnt to accept peoples limitations in that respect.

That remark seems like a mindset in advance, already ruling out any other possibilities.  I have found that aside from congenital deformities, adults just have to be shown how to accomplish the coordination to which they are as yet unaccustomed.


Each person has unique coordination difficulties

Again, I detect a mindset that assumes adults have difficulties.  When adult students are properly shown how to accomplish tasks at the piano keyboard, there is usually an expression of "oh!" and the light goes on.  From there, it is all downhill.  I don't think that adults have coordination difficulties.  It's just that they have yet to be shown the correct techniques, just as anyone of any age has to be shown

[/color]

[m1469]

By the way, here is a site I have found to be pretty interesting (haven't finished yet, but then again, I rarely finish anything  ), with many interesting articles.  It is aimed toward adult students and teachers who are teching adult students.

https://musicalfossils.com/
(home site)


Happy reading, 

m1469

[nanabush]

I would learn faster if I started when I was 15 than if I was 9, which is when I started at, but also went through all the beginner books, some ppl start at like grade 3 or 4 have lotsa trouble, but after that the hardest part is over... it's way easier to start at a young age when you don't need to play difficult pieces, and anything sounds good, and you slowly improve, but starting older you will be more 'hard core' if you really want to learn, this is just going in circles...Just go for it...

[bachs_homegurl]

Omg! You should go for this but without the intentions of becoming the best pianist or something along those lines. (I'm aware that was drastic) I started very young...maybe too young and i'm sure that you could catch up to my level in no time. Maybe that just looks bad on my part but it is simply because I enjoy what I play and how I play. It sounds like you want to just enjoy playing music, particularly the piano. That is AWESOME! My best wishes to you!!!

[happyface94]

In around 7 years, you'll be good enough to play any popular accessible material.

[timothy42b]

If an individual is not consumed with reaching the highest levels, what exactly are they consumed with then?  I suppose it all depends on what one deems as the "highest levels".  Just because something looks and seems a certain way, does not necessarily make it so.


m1469

I dunno.  Maybe they just want to have fun?

You see this a lot on other instruments.  People work hard enough to be able to play with a group, which they enjoy for all sorts of social and other rewards, but they don't work hard enough to maximize their own potential, whatever that is. 

Similarly, people play golf badly every Saturday, never intending to become the next PGA champion, or even get rid of their slice. 

This isn't necessarily wrong.  The world of music is big enough for the hackers, too. 

I can prove it.

Two words.

American Idol.  <grin> 

[m1469]

Maybe for some people, accomplishing "fun" is reaching their highest level.

[|Ridzick|]

i'm 18 and i started playing piano since only one month ago. I can tell you that if you really like the instrument, you can easily start its classes by 23. i think you can start playing it in any age.

[ChristmasCarol]

Read John Holt's book "Never Too Late".  He learned to plaly the cello at 50.  The book details the process. Since he was a teacher and wrote books about children's learning difficulties he articulates his process very well.  Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't.  My goodness at 23 you're still very young.  Go for it!

[lostinidlewonder]

Liiw said: I find when I teach people who say they have had ZERO musical experience at all (that includes listening experience which is the worse inexperience you can ever have imo), it can be a very very tough uphill battle.

Kenasam said: I beg to differ.  Granted, only having listening experience versus playing experience is not the same.  But, I tell my adult students that it is still helpful.  One has to apply what they've heard to piano playing.  Such things as steady beat, melody, harmony, rhythms, etc.  To recognize it from hearing it and then applying it into their actual piano playing

What are you differing on? With 0 experience you cannot recognise what you hear, you cannot understand a steady beat, melody, harmoy or rhythm because you haven't exposed yourself to it. Whether you have been living under a rock with your fingers in your ears or whatever. I have had the impossible task of giving one lesson to a deaf girl before, someone who has never heard music. Do you realise how impossible it is? Now for someone who also has never taken time to listen to music it is the same as being deaf. That is a big challenge ahead of any teacher.

Liiw said:Some people just cannot develop the co-ordination required for a musical instrument and I have really learnt to accept peoples limitations in that respect.

Kenasam said: That remark seems like a mindset in advance, already ruling out any other possibilities.  I have found that aside from congenital deformities, adults just have to be shown how to accomplish the coordination to which they are as yet unaccustomed.

Note how I said some. This is just a warning and something to think about, not a general truth applied to everyone. The co-ordination ofm usic is much harder when you start syncopating things, playing uneven number of notes in one hand to the other. I have found adults who have never had this experience find this very tough at first.

Liiw said: Each person has unique coordination difficulties

Kenasam said: Again, I detect a mindset that assumes adults have difficulties.  When adult students are properly shown how to accomplish tasks at the piano keyboard, there is usually an expression of "oh!" and the light goes on.  From there, it is all downhill.  I don't think that adults have coordination difficulties.  It's just that they have yet to be shown the correct techniques, just as anyone of any age has to be shown

Everyone, not only adults, does has some form of coordination problems. If you ask me to improvise with a 12 against 16 note for both I would have a lot of trouble. Ask me something easier and i could do it all day. Everyone does have difficulties in everything they do, piano is no walk in the park. You have to identify what are you limitations or you just fake your way through piano and play deceitfully.