My Donald Trump Thread

[georgey]

Hello Pianostreet members.  As some may know, I am not the biggest Donald Trump fan.  I have issues with both his style and substance.  I apologize for my snarky remarks made recently on this subject.

Political and religious discussions are not allowed in the piano boards. If such issues are discussed in the “Anything but piano” board it is of extreme importance to avoid any kind of personal attacks or offences as well as such intended against a group of people. Only postings that are objectively discussing the issue with well backed up facts are allowed.

[mjames]

...Donald Trump is dumb...

Source: Donald Trump

[perfect_pitch]

I'll admit - I'm from Australia, so we don't get the full details of what it's like in America under Trump... but the feeling is it's not good.

He seems to act like a petulant child. As someone who seems to resort to tweeting his message, I'd say he obviously doesn't respect people enough to talk to them face to face. It seems so uncommunicative to sit there tweeting all day.

Just my 2 cents though... as I said - Australian living - no idea what it's like over in America.

[Bob]

He seems to act like a petulant child.

Reminded me of this (from Reddit's Accidental Renaissance subreddit).
https://old.reddit.com/r/AccidentalRenaissance/comments/8pv3a3/the_petulant_donald/

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Don't like him and don't like people who don't like him even more

However the people with the worst kind supporters were the Hilary's and Bernies of the world...  even though the majority of them are  more tolerable than trump supporters

[visitor]

Reminded me of this (from Reddit's Accidental Renaissance subreddit).
https://old.reddit.com/r/AccidentalRenaissance/comments/8pv3a3/the_petulant_donald/

context lol

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I'd call him a c**t but he has neither the warmth nor the depth.

He's also a sociopath. Congratulations America on electing a halfwit crossbreed of Hitler and Ted Nugent.

[visitor]

i'm not political. am a politicat though lol

[ronde_des_sylphes]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JP26255434/status/1005918591571685378/photo/1

[mjames]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1009071403918864385?s=19

Right now the only ones who actually think he's not a racist are racists themselves. It's as simple as that.

[thalbergmad]

He is probably a complete imbecile, but I am impressed with how he is dealing with illegal immigrants. Could do with him over here in Europe.

Of course, left wing twats are foaming at the mouth and comparing him to Hitler.

He won an election, which probably says as much about the opposition as it does him. I will judge him on his actions and not his words.

Thal

[mjames]

Could do with him over here in Europe.

Indeed, Europe could use another era of human rights violations.

I will judge him on his actions and not his words.

>I would want to murder white people and extinguish them from this planet...

Thal: Hey now look I'm about to judge yo-

>...but I wouldn't do it because it'd cause a political, social, and economical crisis.

Thal: Ah okay carry on chap.


You're an absolute cumdumpster of a twat.

[thalbergmad]

You failed to mention concentration camps and the holocaust you fairy cake spastic. Penises like you think that Trump is going to incinerate millions.

Have a nice day.

Thalxx

[ronde_des_sylphes]

"Oh look Donald, they're playing the Schumann piano concerto on the Gorilla Channel"

[mjames]

I still cannot fathom how anyone can legitimately claim they don't care about the opinions and views publicly expressed by politicians. Like what the ***?

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Imo his words, even though they are regularly self-contradictory, give encouragement to redneck racism which is a throwback to the days of lynchings and the KKK. His actions are no better. Incidentally I don't see this as a left v right thing, just basic decency.

[klavieronin]

Given his willingness to lie at every turn I'd say it's difficult to say anything about him other than that he is a narcissistic egomaniac who knows nothing about the job he is doing, for which he has claimed many times to be the most qualified. It would be funny if only so much wasn't at stake.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Mjames...

Thal doesn't even like black people idk why you tried talking to him about human rights

ANYWAYS...

To the people in this thread who don't have a clear hatred for people who aren't of the Aryan race.  Not Thalcolonizerberg

In case you don't know, the Hitler Trump comparisons is due to the idealogy behind his actions, not his ACTUAL actions.  Like is he gonna put minorities in gas chambers?  Probably not.  BUT his ideology behind his mistreatment of minorities are similar.

People who make the comparison don't really explain this well or even at all but that's what the comparisons are SUPPOSED to be about whether or not they realize it.  Comparing trump to Hitler is kind of the new trendy thing so a lot of people just say it without knowing why just to hop on the bandwagon

[mjames]

Don't worry I already know Thalberg's an incoherent babbling waste of sperm, my expectations of having any reasonable political conversation with him are as low as his IQ.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

In case you don't know, the Hitler Trump comparisons is due to the idealogy behind his actions, not his ACTUAL actions.  Like is he gonna put minorities in gas chambers?  Probably not.  BUT his ideology behind his mistreatment of minorities are similar.

Of course, and he's doesn't seem especially anti-Jew either (though I bet a fair percentage of his hardcore supporters are). No gas chambers, just cages..

People who make the comparison don't really explain this well or even at all but that's what the comparisons are SUPPOSED to be about whether or not they realize it.  Comparing trump to Hitler is kind of the new trendy thing so a lot of people just say it without knowing why just to hop on the bandwagon

Well, it's as much an easy metaphor as anything. I would categorically class him as a fascist (incidentally there's a fair amount of that in Europe atm) and to my mind he meets most of the standard definitional aspects (authoritarianism, racism, aggressive nationalism etc) other than that he's not an actual dictator and can still be removed democratically. I don't use the term fascist lightly either; it's not a term which should be bandied about loosely otherwise it starts to lose its meaning.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

And I might add that the current fad whereby the right wing seeks to define migration as the bane of civilised society is *exceedingly* ironic.

There would be almost no migration if there was less global inequality, less bombing the crap out of countries for short-term geopolitical gain, the CIA didn't go around trying to destabilise South American countries by turning them into failed narcostates, etc etc. You reap what you sow.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Given his willingness to lie at every turn

Yeah but every candidate that ever ran for anything in a democracy ever was like that.  That's the way a democracy is set up.  The only way you can win is to lie and not have everyone notice.  Imagine if I'm running for ps president...

Me:  hey klavieronin if you vote for me I'll give everyone free  membership

You:  yeah I'm down... But I don't really like mjames that much

Me:  man *** mjames he's a ***

Now I need both of your votes in order to win the election.  

Me:  hey mjames if you vote for me I'll only give you a free memembership

Mjames:  yeah I'm down but I don't really like Klavieronin that much

Me:  naw man *** Klavieronin he's a ***



See what I mean?  I don't like Trump but I don't consider his flip floppyness something to hate on because that's the ONLY way you can win an election in the US.  That's why all of the good candidates don't make it far

[rachmaninoff_forever]

And I might add that the current fad whereby the right wing seeks to define migration as the bane of civilised society is *exceedingly* ironic.

I wouldn't call it a fad though it's always been like that.

One thing I don't like about non trump supporters is that they waited until trump showed up and then all the sudden became human rights activists.  The US has been wrongfully separating families and caging people during the Obama administration and before but nobody cared.

I personally know someone who's been locked up in prison for three years without trial.  I ALMOST went to jail for a stolen car (it was my car) and got threatened with a year in prison for speeding.  But now that Trump became president all of the sudden people care about policing black people and prison reform.  Since 911 middle eastern people are always "randomly" checked in airport security.  But now people wanna talk about tolerance of religion and culture.  Caught "illegal" immigrants have been put in solitary confinement for years (In Illinois the limit is like 1000 days) waiting trial under the Obama administration (he has more deportations than any other president) but NOW people wanna talk about "no human is illegal".

So in other words, a lot of these left anti trumpers don't actually care about minorities and human rights...  Unless they need the black vote.  Which makes them worse than Trump supporters.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Well, yes, I agree with much of that and the US police have been no angels since time immemorial. I'm old enough to remember the Rodney King riots, and I'd hope that my comments in the lengthy Brexit thread which predates the current outrage indicate that my moral stance on refugees etc isn't dependent on who I'm criticising.

Do however see this: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/was-law-separate-families-passed-1997/?utm_source=sumome&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=sumome_share

I think Obama did many things which were wrong, but to me Trump is actively courting racists because they are a core part of his vote.

Not to you, but to the wider forum I pose the question  "if you, or your family, lived in one of these 'shithole countries' [sic] / war zones, wouldn't you be doing your damndest to get to somewhere where you could make a better life?"

Meanwhile in Europe we have militant groups actively trying to DROWN African refugees as they try to cross the Mediterranean.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I think Obama did many things which were wrong, but to me Trump is actively courting racists because they are a core part of his vote.

+1
I think that's the deadliest thing that Trump has done

[mjames]

You have the memory of a fish. Debates about structural racism against black people and other ethnic minorities, alongside accusations of human rights violations by the US especially on foreign soil (middle east campaigns) were a common topic of debate during Obama's campaign. To state otherwise is categorically false, and it's seriously annoying that people are obsessed with mischaracterizing liberals and progressives as only caring about liberal values when opponents like Trump violate them.

Meanwhile in Europe we have militant groups actively trying to DROWN African refugees as they try to cross the Mediterranean.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/03/far-right-raises-50000-target-refugee-rescue-boats-med

Why is this important? There are so many internet personalities like her; far-right people being "politically correct" about their views either due to self-delusion (no way I'm a racist, its not like i want to lynch X minority) or being deliberately nefarious. It's not "white genocide" it's "great replacement", it's not "I don't want Africans at all in my country" it's "Africans are culturally incompatible with our values", it's not "I'm deliberately drowning refugees" it's "I'm protecting Europe from migrants."

They brand (either knowingly or not) their far-right ideas under prettier and more seemingly 'harmless' language, while that definitely courts actual hard core racists (people willing to admit they hate 'niggers') it also courts impressionable people (especially young men) into adopting vile racist beliefs while under the impression that they're not racists.

Plenty of people like Sargon of Akkad, Lauren Southern turning people into far-right fascists because of their careful manipulation of language. It would be so much easier to fight this if they just went ahead and said "i hate niggers."

[klavieronin]

Yeah but every candidate that ever ran for anything in a democracy ever was like that.

I have no doubt most politician are dishonest but not the way Trump is. Or maybe other politicians are just better liars. Most politicians lie like a sniper. Trump's lies come out as if from a machine gun.

[mjames]

I have no doubt most politician are dishonest but not the way Trump is. Or maybe other politicians are just better liars. Most politicians lie like a sniper. Trump's lies come out as if from a machine gun.

It's a false equivalency at best.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

You have the memory of a fish. Debates about structural racism against black people and other ethnic minorities, alongside accusations of human rights violations by the US especially on foreign soil (middle east campaigns) were a common topic of debate during Obama's campaign. To state otherwise is categorically false, and it's seriously annoying that people are obsessed with mischaracterizing liberals and progressives only caring about liberal values when opponents violate them.

One thing I don't like about non trump supporters is that they waited until trump showed up and then all the sudden became human rights activists.


So in other words, a lot of these left anti trumpers don't actually care about minorities and human rights...  Unless they need the black vote.  Which makes them worse than Trump supporters.

Oddly I think both of you have a point (though I'm wary of getting into too much detail on the politics of a country I don't live in).

It wouldn't surprise me if the anti-Trump side is divided into principled opposition (you know, for example the sort of people who were pretty pissed off about Obama upping drone activity, etc) and opportunists, ie what r4 is talking about even if the opening generalisation is over the top.

But Trump (and the likes of Wilders, Farage, Orban et al) are giving validation and encouragement to racists in a way that conventional politicians rarely have. Peculiarly, they need the refugee / immigrant issue in order to exist.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Why is this important? There are so many internet personalities like her; far-right people being "politically correct" about their views either due to self-delusion (no way I'm a racist, its not like i want to lynch X minority) or being deliberately nefarious. It's not "white genocide" it's "great replacement", it's not "I don't want Africans at all in my country" it's "Africans are culturally incompatible with our values", it's not "I'm deliberately drowning refugees" it's "I'm protecting Europe from migrants."

They brand (either knowingly or not) their far-right ideas under prettier and more seemingly 'harmless' language, while that definitely courts actual hard core racists (people willing to admit they hate 'niggers') it also courts impressionable people (especially young men) into adopting vile racist beliefs while under the impression that they're not racists.

Plenty of people like Sargon of Akkad, Lauren Southern turning people into far-right fascists because of their careful manipulation of language. It would be so much easier to fight this if they just went ahead and said "i hate niggers."

Absolutely agreed. It's the "protecting our society" which is particularly insidious.

It's camouflaged racist sh*t-stirrers like THEM who our society needs to be protected against.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

You have the memory of a fish. Debates about structural racism against black people and other ethnic minorities, alongside accusations of human rights violations by the US especially on foreign soil (middle east campaigns) were a common topic of debate during Obama's campaign. To state otherwise is categorically false, and it's seriously annoying that people are obsessed with mischaracterizing liberals and progressives as only caring about liberal values when opponents like Trump violate them.

Maybe I should clarify I'm talking about white liberals...  which btw is most of the liberal population.  So yeah liberals.  But dude it's always been like that white liberals only care about race relations if it benefits them.  Malcom X even said that and that was way before either of us were around so don't say it's a false categorization.

And I never said anything about progressives I was only talking about liberals.  It's weird in the US the meaning of liberal and conservative is flip flopped and people automatically associate conservative with non-progressive and progressive with liberal.  When all four of those things are separate.

[mjames]

I refuse to concede on that point. "White liberals" do genuinely care about liberal issues.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

It wouldn't surprise me if the anti-Trump side is divided into principled opposition (you know, for example the sort of people who were pretty pissed off about Obama upping drone activity, etc) and opportunists, ie what r4 is talking about even if the opening generalisation is over the top.

I remember when there was a drone strike in some village in the Middle East tryna get some terrorist (I think Bin Laden) and they just blew up a building or something killing EVERYONE and LIBERALS WERE SILENT because Obama is their perfect candidate and how in the world could they ever criticize their wonderful savior sent straight from heaven in Obama

But when trump bombed syria and had a zero innocent kill count all the liberals were like 'Hey look at me I'm a human rights activist blah blah blah'

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I refuse to concede on that point. "White liberals" do genuinely care about liberal issues.

Dude I can give examples all day about issues that happened under a democratic president (whether or not it's the presidents fault) where liberals were completely silent about but when a similar issue pops up again when trump is in office everyone is captain equality.

What about that march for lives movement?  When they shot up that upper middle class white school Everyone was like 'omg they shot up a highschool blah blah blah' but like a week or two later two cops shot a black dude in the back seven times.  [size=500pt]SILENCE[/size]

thats why they can be more dangerous than conservatives.  You don't really know who's an Ally or just hoping on the bandwagon

MLK and Malcom X was saying this about liberals WAY before us so if this is your first time hearing this it's not something I just made up

[ahinton]

He is probably a complete imbecile

I accept this as a probability indeed.

but I am impressed with how he is dealing with illegal immigrants

The fact that many people are equalyy UNimpressed with this is doubtless why he has rescinded / replaced his recent highly unpopular "executive order"[/quote]

Could do with him over here in Europe

Who could? Those who might want to do him some damage, perhaps; it's hard to figure out who else.

Of course, left wing twats are foaming at the mouth and comparing him to Hitler[/quote]
As I mentioned elsewhere, I've encountered no such reactions other than that comparing Trump to Hitler is insulting to Hitler. That said, such comparisons are in any case still, not least because what Trump has done so far and wht Hitler did over several years cannot realistically be compared; moreover, Trump was not even born when Hitler ended his days.

He won an election, which probably says as much about the opposition as it does him. I will judge him on his actions and not his words.

He "won" that election only because of the way the US Electoral College system "functions" or rather malfunctions; The Democrats actually polled more votes that the Republicans so, had that election taken place in UK, his party would not have won. Whether or not there was outside interference in that election or in the last UK General Election or in the first UK/EU referendum - and whether any such interference was sufficiently effective to influence or even change the results - whilst an interesting question, is another matter altogether.

We'll all have to judge Trump on his actions and inactions as they become apparent and, of course, we won't all judge him in the same way for them; what is in no doubt in the meantime - and here I agree with you - is that judging him of all people on his words would be foolhardly in the extreme.

Best,

Alistair

[mjames]

Dude I can give examples all day about issues that happened under a democratic president (whether or not it's the presidents fault) where liberals were completely silent about but when a similar issue pops up again when trump is in office everyone is captain equality.

thats why they can be more dangerous than conservatives.  You don't really know who's an Ally or just hoping on the bandwagon

MLK and Malcom X was saying this about liberals WAY before us so if this is your first time hearing this it's not something I just made up

This just reeks of paranoia and distrust, no offense. I will never concede that the majority of "white liberals" are as manipulative, two-faced, and nefarious as you're making them out to be.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

"Of course, left wing twats are foaming at the mouth and comparing him to Hitler"


As I mentioned elsewhere, I've encountered no such reactions other than that comparing Trump to Hitler is insulting to Hitler.

Seriously? Hitler is obviously worse than Trump. Give Trump 12 years though, and that might not be the case.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Dude I can give examples all day about issues that happened under a democratic president (whether or not it's the presidents fault) where liberals were completely silent about but when a similar issue pops up again when trump is in office everyone is captain equality.

thats why they can be more dangerous than conservatives.  You don't really know who's an Ally or just hoping on the bandwagon

MLK and Malcom X was saying this about liberals WAY before us so if this is your first time hearing this it's not something I just made up

Depends on who you consider a white liberal, I guess. I know white Americans who despised Clinton, and not from a Republican perspective either. Malcolm X is imo not the most reliable voice either, I'm pretty certain he went through a phase where he was actively black supremacist.

[mjames]

It is necessary to view Malcom X's claims in context, him and the Nation of Islam did advocate for the segregation of African Americans and white Americans. I honestly advise you not to use his paranoia as a means to make a wide cultural diagnosis on "white liberals", it's not only insulting but also extremely discriminatory; you're essentially saying they're incapable of expressing genuine empathy for protected classes.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

This just reeks of paranoia and distrust, no offense. I will never concede that the majority of "white liberals" are as manipulative, two-faced, and nefarious as you're making them out to be.

AFTER BERNIE DIDNT WIN A TON OF HIS VOTES WENT TO TRUMP

[rachmaninoff_forever]

You wanna discredit Malcom x okay fine but MLK and a lot of their other contemporaries felt the same way.

I don't know how many Bernie supporters went to trump, and I'd imagine it's not that many.  But the point is you don't know for sure who's an ally or not

[rachmaninoff_forever]

It is necessary to view Malcom X's claims in context, him and the Nation of Islam did advocate for the segregation of African Americans and white Americans. I honestly advise you not to use his paranoia as a means to make a wide cultural diagnosis on "white liberals", it's not only insulting but also extremely discriminatory; you're essentially saying they're incapable of expressing genuine empathy for protected classes.

Well no not all.  For example Tim Wise.  I like him a lot.  But even he acknowledges that there is a population of liberals that only pretend to be captain civil rights when it benefits them.  And he's a white liberal!!!  A white liberal that admits that white liberalism (as a concept) is a real issue wow who would've thought a man like this could even exist.

Dude just watch a video of a BLM protest and a march for all lives protest.  They shot up an upper middle class school and everyone was like 'omg let's start a movement' and a week or two later Stephen Clark got shot in the back 7 times.  Look at his protests.

dont tell me all liberals are like 'omg we all care about everyone rainbows and sunshine and sunflowers and happiness forever yay'

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I remember when there was a drone strike in some village in the Middle East tryna get some terrorist (I think Bin Laden) and they just blew up a building or something killing EVERYONE and LIBERALS WERE SILENT because Obama is their perfect candidate and how in the world could they ever criticize their wonderful savior sent straight from heaven in Obama

But when trump bombed syria and had a zero innocent kill count all the liberals were like 'Hey look at me I'm a human rights activist blah blah blah'

The wedding incident perhaps? I can assure you the UK Stop the War movement was a very long way from silent about that and similar stuff, didn't matter whether it happened under Bush, Obama or Trump. I don't know what it was like in the US, of course.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

The wedding incident perhaps? I can assure you the UK Stop the War movement was a very long way from silent about that and similar stuff, didn't matter whether it happened under Bush, Obama or Trump. I don't know what it was like in the US, of course.

Yeah idk what it was like in the U.K. either lol

I don't remember the incident that well though it was in the news for only a couple days

I don't really blame either bombings on either presidents but I don't see any consistency here

[ronde_des_sylphes]

.. that there is a population of liberals that only pretend to be captain civil rights when it benefits them.  

I think the word you're looking for is affects, rather than benefits. And yes such people undoubtedly do exist.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I think the word you're looking for is affects, rather than benefits. And yes such people undoubtedly do exist.

That's fine I'll take that

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Sorry, it occurs to me my post comes across as patronising when that's really not the intention.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Sorry, it occurs to me my post comes across as patronising when that's really not the intention.

Naw you good didn't come across that way to me

[ahinton]

Given the sheer number of Donald Trump threads that there must be elsewhere - all over the internet, surely? - the very prospect of yet another one on a forum devoted principally to matters pianistic seems to me to be especially redundant. What exactly is Donald Trump known to care about piano composition and performance? What views might he have as to whether, for example, the mid-20th century piano sonatas of Copland, Barber and Carter (one each) and Sessions (three) can be regarded as contributing today to his much-vaunted notion of "making America great again"?

Best,

Alistair

[klavieronin]

Given the sheer number of Donald Trump threads that there must be elsewhere - all over the internet, surely? - the very prospect of yet another one on a forum devoted principally to matters pianistic seems to me to be especially redundant. What exactly is Donald Trump known to care about piano composition and performance? What views might he have as to whether, for example, the mid-20th century piano sonatas of Copland, Barber and Carter (one each) and Sessions (three) can be regarded as contributing today to his much-vaunted notion of "making America great again"?

Best,

Alistair

Well, it's not exactly piano related but it's pretty close;