Playing "Popular" Piano

[tsarchitect]

Hi, everyone --

Does anyone on this forum play "popular" piano or use "fake books?"  I know most of you play classical music, which is commendable -- surely, I'd like to become a member of that club.  I just thought I'd ask, since I haven't seen much discussion of this topic.

If anyone does play in this manner, perhaps s/he can give me some advice on how to make better-sounding arrangements from "lead sheets" -- melody and chord changes.  I'm sort of "stuck in a rut" by playing chords "on the beat" or sometimes arpeggiating them (BORING!!!)  My right hand has been relegated to playing a one-note melody (also BORING!!!).

I've been a subscriber to Sheet Music Magazine for about 20 years now -- they usually include the "standards" in every issue.  Their arrangements look interesting.  I can read sheet music fairly well, although I'm kind of "rusty," so I resort to playing them in this so-called "fake" style.  By the way, I just play for fun -- not anything serious!

Any tips out there?  Thanks!

Tom

[rlefebvr]

I doubt you get any response, but I think this is an interesting topic that could really be helpfull.

I have been doing alot of Base note / Chord work lately on the left hand.

C note on first beat - C Chord on second beat and so on.

[bernhard]

Why not do what the classical composers do?

For instance, look at the accompaninment of a Chopin nocturne, and use the same broken chord pattern.

With Mozart you can always break down the chords in Alberti patterns.

Schumann has some very interesting ways of sharing the accompaniment between both hands.

You get the idea. This will also force you to look anew a piece of classicla muisc, not so much about technique and how to play the right notes at the right time, but rather, what is the composer doing and what effect does it have?

You can then come up with different arrnagements of a pop piece in the style of a certain composer.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[crotchet]

I really liked your reply Bernhard.  I am also interested in playing 'popular' music and two books that I find helpful are  both called How to Play From a Fake Book.  One is by Michael Esterowitz and the other by Blake Neely.  I am thorougly enjoying this approach to music as opposed to only classical. 

[rlefebvr]

I really liked your reply Bernhard.  I am also interested in playing 'popular' music and two books that I find helpful are  both called How to Play From a Fake Book.  One is by Michael Esterowitz and the other by Blake Neely.  I am thorougly enjoying this approach to music as opposed to only classical. 

If you had to choose one over the other, what would be your first choice

[Motrax]

There is a method to teaching jazz improvisation which I believe could apply here as well.  With a given theme (from a fake book, for example), take a blank sheet of ledger paper and write some simple variation on the theme. You could just arpeggiate chords, or syncopate the melody with the left hand - and then play it back in a "theme and variation" style, playing the original music first and then the variation. Continue to add a few different variations, exploring different ways to alter the melody and accompaniment in interesting manners. It is important that you try not to repeat any variation style, no matter how many themes you've gone over. Always try to explore different ways of looking at themes (Bernhard gave very good suggestions for this), and eventually you will be able to come up with variations at the keyboard.

Another thing which may help is that back in the days of Mozart and Beethoven, improvisation at the keyboard was something any pianist would be expected to do. Many pianists had a number of "carbon copy" variations that could be applied to nearly any melody - adding octaves, syncopating the melody, using 3rd or 6th intervals, etc. If you have a number of readily available variations that can be applied to any melody, you'll find it to be much easier to invent more complicated and interesting aspects to what you play.

Hope this helps!

[ted]

I have a run through my fake books every now and then. With me it's a nostalgic association. I like those old tunes, the ones from the first half of the twentieth century. When I was young my teacher used to make me play them in all keys as chord exercises and to develop swing basses and various other patterns.

As most popular tunes depend on ad lib syncopation to be truly effective I would tend to listen to modern players rather than examine classical structures. The old masters, however great they were in other ways, had absolutely no idea about prolonged syncopation. If you hunt around you can probably find a number of very fine professional pianists playing in various venues who have become pretty good at doing this. Listen to them and absorb what they do.

Ones you could listen to on CD are Tatum, Waller, Earl Hines, Teddy Wilson, Ray Turner ... very many. They all used chords, rhythms and figures peculiar to themselves. A contemporary player of old tunes well worth hearing is John Gill. I think he lives in Perth but he plays at ragtime festivals elsewhere. He doesn't use  substitute chords all the time like Tatum and the rest but he is very good indeed at what he does. Another one is Rod Miller, the resident pianist at Disneyland. I heard him play at a shopping mall here in Auckland a few years ago - top notch player of popular tunes with a brilliant keyboard vocabulary all his own.

Playing popular tunes is not a "second best" musical activity. I think that to do it really well demands a much higher order of musicianship than it takes to play a Chopin study; no doubt many would disagree.

[bernhard]

Playing popular tunes is not a "second best" musical activity. I think that to do it really well demands a much higher order of musicianship than it takes to play a Chopin study; no doubt many would disagree.

I completely agree.

A lot of students of classical piano get so stuck in the right notes at the right time that they forget about the musicianship: the musical meanign of a piece (shich involves al ot of knoweldge about music theory and harmony) and the ability to improvise in that particular idiom. All the great composers in the past (from Bach to Rachmaninoff) were accomplished improvisers. However this is something that seems to be having a return. Many classical pianists are back into bith composing and improvising (Kissin, and Hamelin come readily to mind).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[puma]

I am currently studying jazz guitar and have been applying the theory to piano as well.  Let me give you a tip to get out of that rut: Inversions!  Try playing a piece using 1st, 2nd, (or in the case of 7th chords) 3rd inversions.  Say a tune is in G major.  Try all the chords in 1st inversion.  Then try again with a second inversion.  This helps to add flavor to the piece and also prevents you from jumping all over the keyboard.   You could also add chord tone coloring: taking tones from the chord and playing them, different inversions, for the melody.  The syncopation and octaves mentioned before is a good idea.  Walking bass is another important step towards playing popular music.  Good luck and have fun.

[crotchet]

In reply to rlefebvr.  Out of the two books on how to play from a fake book my choice would be the one by Blake Neely.  However both have their merits.

[tsarchitect]

AH-HA!!!  So I did find some "pop" piano players out there!

I have a few books on how to play from "fake books," too.  My favorite ones are How to Play the Piano Despite Years of Lessons by Cannel and Marx and The Do-It-Yourself Handbook for Keyboard Playing by the editors of Sheet Music Magazine.  I haven't "consulted" these books in quite a while, though.  I've probably been too anxious to play "my way" (no pun intended!) and now that I found this site, I would like to take advantage of what all of you might be able to teach me. 

Bernhard -- Thanks for your suggestions -- they sound great!  I haven't been "reading" too much classical music, perhaps because I've considered it too difficult.  I have some "fake book" arrangements of the more familiar pieces -- (the "hated" Fur Elise, for example! ) and I try to play them how I "think" they should sound .  Right now, I'm thinking of purchasing the "real" sheet music for these works.  Can you recommend any compilations which can get me started?  I would like to take this opportunity to say that I've really enjoyed reading your posts since I've become a member of this Forum.  You are extremely helpful to us!!!  Thank you!

As far as applying the style of a certain composer to "popular" pieces -- I would LOVE to do that!  Maybe I can become the next "pop" Victor Borge!   (Just kidding!) 

Tom

[Derek]

Bernhard, are there any recordings of kissin or hamelin improvising, and if so, is it really good?

[puma]

  It seems to be the consensus that classical music is the ONLY kind of music to be worth playing on the piano - jazz has gathered more interest, but I believe popular really takes a dive.  You could say - "oh, well that song only contains three chords, I can play it."  But remember that that song will be much better with correct tempo, dynamics, interpretation.  Would you be able to improvise a bit on it?  Popular music can sometimes be harder than classical, performing and interpreting.

[Muzikant]

Well I think that Classic music should not stop you from playing Popular music.  Here's my point some classical players don't know how to play E minor chord.... that is really sad. I play Classic music but I also play popular music and playing by chords.  If you know the chords you can compose your own music but if you will play only Bach who did not have reall pianos then well....too bad for you....

[Bartolomeo]

Hi Tom.  Great topic.

I have never learned how to play, convincingly, from fake books.

However, I have a couple of books of "pop standards" in jazzy, pianistic arrangements.  The arrangers include such luminaries as George Shearing and Art Tatum, among others.  I play these.  I doubt if I'll ever learn to improvise well enough to be able to improve upon a composition that Shearing or Tatum have written out and worked through with care, so I just play their stuff.

There is a lot of junk out there in pop piano sheet music so you do have to be careful what you buy.

[tsarchitect]

Hi, Bartolomeo --

Thanks for the compliment for starting this thread.

I, too, am not getting much satisfaction playing from fake books.  Lately I've been trying to play "pop" standards from written arrangements.  Although I'm a little "rusty," I'm sure that, in time, I'll be able to "breeze" through them!  As I mentioned earlier, most of these arrangements are in my 20-years-plus collection of Sheet Music Magazine.

Are you familiar with the Steinway Piano Stylings of the Great Standards - Volumes 1-4?  They contain the music I really like to play.  I was wondering whether the arrangements are (at this point) beyond my capabilities.  I'd like to purchase them not only to enjoy playing them but to sharpen my "sight-reading" abilities as well.

Any thoughts?  Thanks again!

Tom

[MusicIsSoul]

Playing out of fake books is something that takes time...  If you buy sheet music, you'll see how to play in a "pop" style based on the arrangements..... Then you can apply that style to fake book tunes....

Instead of playing single note melodies... try surrounding the melody with the other notes in the chord..... always leaving the melody as the highest note... for instance.... If the Lead Sheet calls for a C chord and the melody note is an E.... try playing a C in the left hand and a G-C-E triad in the right hand..... you don't need to play triads in the right hand on every melody note.... but try throwing them in every measure....

[lenny]

Bernhard, are there any recordings of kissin or hamelin improvising, and if so, is it really good?

YES, hamelin improvised on his Rzewski people united album

he improvises a long cadenza to the work, and it really is quite amazing

also - on the japanese documentary 'hamelin-supervirtuoso' there is footage of him playing this piece - including a different improvisation just for that concert

its really amazing to watch!

[puma]

  When it comes to popular tunes there are two things you can do: get the authentic, note-for-note transcriptions, or play from a fake book.  Note for note transcriptions can be a real pain - with some songs, you may as well sit down and learn a Beethoven sonata, because of all the notes they put in there - but don't fret, a lot of the patterns usually repeat.  If it's a jazz note-for-note transcription, you may have a difficult time - like some stuff by Thelonious Monk or Art Tatum.  But you don't necessarily have to follow it note-by-note - you could just learn some "licks" by the masters and fill in your own interpretation, however simple it may be. 
   It helps to learn the "lick," the signature tune of the piece, and the skeleton - the chord progression. Just with these two things alone, you can play the piece.  But then comes improvisation. There are no written rules with popular music, so even a few wrong notes here and there aren't the end of the world (more so for jazz, though - you can get away with A LOT, but you need the technical and musical foundation before you can approach much of the jazz canon).  Watch out for when publishers put out their transcriptions of pieces that are just recently released - a lot of times people rush to put these popular (think Britney Spears) pieces out so the kiddies will buy them, and they often contain: 1) incorrect rhythm 2)incorrect notes (!) 3) incorrect chordal progression and 4) the "easy" arrangements of these pieces sacrifice a LOT of the cool licks you heard form the tune that originally made you go out and buy them in the first place!  I've found that bad transcriptions (and it really kills me that these dudes at publishing, who probably have a whole team working on the stuff, can't get it right) happen more so with the recent popular stuff than standards and jazz. 
   Improvisation is not easy - it is, in fact, an art form unto itself.  The play from fake books series usually teaches you some cool tricks you can use to improv, and these will work on almost any tune (even classical pieces!)  There's a lot more to say, but just can't be said all in one post.  But enjoy and best of luck.