Chopin op.10/5 fingering help?

[pover]

So I've been working on this for a few days now, and it seems to be going well except for a few places. The first potential problem I see is in measure 45 where I have to go Db Eb Db (upper octave) Eb Db (upper octave) Eb Db etc. I'm using 121 41 54etc. The fingering in my score is 121 51 54, and I'm using the same concept for fingering going down as well. I was wondering if according to your experience, would this work at tempo? Or should I go for the 5-1 even though it feels less reliable but maybe a bit "looser"? And would using 4-1 hinder ability to gain speed later on?

The other trouble spot is measure 65, where I have to go down the all-black note scale. Does anyone have fingering suggestions for this? The Mikuli edition has 5 on Db, and basically goes 54321 54321 5. I can't imagine doing this evenly and reliably at tempo, but then again I don't have any other good options. Any ideas?

Finally, I haven't spent any considerable time on the piece yet, but in anticipation of the octaves in the coda, are there any tips to keep in mind? I'm assuming i should think "up" on each octave and practice thumbs/pinkies alone etc. Anything else I shouldn't do at slow tempo that will be counterproductive when I try to increase speed?

I know the questions are a bit long and unorganized, but any help or any other tips are appreciated 

[soultrap]

Op. 10 No. 5 is my best etude out of the entire set, so I'm speaking from my personal experiences.

1. Measure 45: Go for the 5th finger. It's always best to avoid the fourth finger if possible in these fast etudes that require a sparkling touch, because the fourth is the weakest finger by itself. Not the fifth, the fourth. Since it lacks its own tendon, it's very much dependent on the third finger. It's incredibly difficult to produce a smooth, clear sound in that specific passage. Make sure to put a little emphasis on the top note with the fourth finger, the Db.
It does feel less reliable at first, but it will help when you get to the correct speed. 4th finger will drag you down, most of the time.
Going down is the same story.

2. mm 65: Rubato is your friend. Don't rush it. Make the top Eb light and sparkling, then play the passage. I use the soft pedal for the passage, makes it more warm. My fingering is to play the top Eb with any finger, and play 4321 321 4321.  It's the fingering that works for me, not the 54321 or its variants. 54321 rarely works in the performance speed, as there's too much pivoting going on.

3. The octaves, when played right, can be the star of the etude. I think the key is your wrists. It should feel like you're clapping. Clap for a few seconds, and examine how your wrists move. Replicate the same motion, except on the keyboard and on the notes. It's  very awkward at the beginning if you're not used to it, but it's necessary for speed and clarity.

Just something else: Your left hand has a lot of melody as well, in the thumb. Don't neglect it, for example from measure 65 onwards. (Gb---Ab-F-Gb---Ab-F-Gb) etc.

Practice the right hand routinely, staccato, legato, dotted rhythms etc.

[pover]

soultrap, thank you for the amazing reply! I've been practicing with the 4 instead of the 5 on that measure so now I think I'll go back and try to re-learn that passage with 5.

The octaves still need a lot of work, especially in the left hand. And the passage right before it. But everything is slowly getting along

Thanks again for the tips! Appreciated.

[soultrap]

Good to know. I agree with you, the final few lines are the most difficult in the etude.

I hope my reply was clear enough to understand. Good luck!