I agree only with one part: the "dinosaur brain" that lets us carry a glass of water without spilling it, and the fact of intellect vs. this "brain", there being a question about which leads when. But I'd like you to be open to a larger view that I will try to set out. Consider the fact that having done piano in Russia from childhood, you will also have received physical training that has become part of you which we in the west won't necessarily have, so we're working with different parameters. Your model is to simply play slowly, repeating many times. I want to expand this.When I was a child I was given a piano, a relative's music (mostly sonatinas), and learned to play totally on my own, without ever even seeing a pianist. I was totally free, nobody making me feel self-conscious, and my physical playing evolved in this way. Then for 35 years from age 20 - 55, I had no piano. When I returned to piano, the reflexes I had built as a child were in my body and "dinosaur brain". I began to work with a teacher - remotely - trying a first piece, and my LH repeated chords were harsh and uncontrolled. My existing habits made it so at any speed. Watching me, my teacher saw that I kept my hand in a kind of "chord-shaped claw" which locked up much of the arm mechanism. By telling me "do this", "do that", he brought me into a new habit. THEN the "dinosaur" part could be applied. I left the lesson, held on to those sensations, those motions. It was a very physical, "dinosaur" oriented work.If we have engrained poor physical reflexes, then if we simply practise slowly, but automatically move in ways we have always done, nothing is solved. We must get out of this programming into something that works in a natural way with the human body. A young child deftly taught by a good teacher will come into these good motions unthinkingly, and then all you have to do is say "practise slowly, often enough". But not in these cases.I know that you have seen students who were "over-taught" in the wrong way, i.e. the "hand posture" thing, so that they come to you crippled. You wrote about it elsewhere. That is just as bad - in fact, maybe worse. But I am saying that with physical difficulties, when there are underlying things such as has been in my case, then those underlying things will continue until they are turned around. The teacher who does that turning around has to be very good. There aren't that many who can do this. I have been lucky to have found two such teachers. Anyone who would deny the existence of these things, and go ONLY for "practise slowly" - such a thing makes me uncomfortable on behalf of students.
If we have engrained poor physical reflexes, then if we simply practise slowly, but automatically move in ways we have always done, nothing is solved. We must get out of this programming into something that works in a natural way with the human body. Anyone who would deny the existence of these things, and go ONLY for "practise slowly" - such a thing makes me uncomfortable on behalf of students.
I am confused by your Richter reference that the two of you attended adjacent classes at the Moscow conservatory. These are the dates that I have found:He attended ca. 1937 You graduated in 1968 Richter recorded the Wanderer in 1953
You have not addressed anything that I wrote.
Thanks keypeg, well put.
What an empty post not even defining how one can practice mindfully merely using generalisations with no knowledge to elaborate. 500 repetitions is idiotic no matter how you do it. Congratulations on wasting your time and encouraging others to do the same. Strong delusions of grandeur.
Richter lived in an ordinary multi-storey building, on the topmost floor, half a kilometer from the Conservatory. It is unlikely that the rest of the tenants were happy with his daily 12-16 hours of practice, especially at night.Therefore, he came to the conservatory to practice quite often.Maybe, he was preparing for a new recording or just a concert that evening in 1967.
I call baloney response!Your original anecdote stated you were both conservatory students at the same time. Now, you have implicitly acknowledged that was not true.... fabricated
If i played any part of a piece 500 times, i would hate it so much i could never play it.If i sounded like Richter, i would blow my brains out.Thal
Instead of wasting time and energy in verbal battle, bring here 1 page of the most difficult piece you know (by YOUR choice) together with the recording of your performance of this page. I will learn this page in my way and post it here back for comparison. Let all the rest to decide: who's performance will be more "idiotic"?
Lostinidlewonder, thank you for the voice of sanity. Do you want to change your name to Listinidlewonderbutnotlost?
From 7 to 11 pm, I repeated these 16 bars SLOWLY at least 500 times. And if you wake me up today, 50 years later after this evening and ask me to play these bars, I will definitely play them without mistakes at any tempo.
Honestly, did you try at least once in your life to repeat a difficult place slowly 500 times?
I have hesitated in responding, since I don't want to give more voice to these things by quoting them, but I feel a sense of responsibility toward any fellow students who may be reading these threads.My music studies had two periods - one when I didn't have understanding, and the other when I did and also began to have decent teachers. Two instruments.During the ignorant period, and another instrument, yes, I did repeat difficult places slowly, countless times. There is one passage in particular which never worked out. I dropped the instrument for over a decade. I started to relearn. In particular, I learned that if you press too heavily on the strings, your hand locks up. So I worked on lighter pressure, random notes, short periods. Then I picked up the music with the "impossible passage" out of curiosity. I played it through, without having practised it, problem-free.The "500 times" is the one that did not work, and there were reasons.In my anecdote, I applied what I had learned from my good teachers. 1) You find the source of the problem, and address it. 2) Short practice periods so the "learning system" (body, mind, senses) stay fresh.My "500 repetitions" did not work, because I was repeating the same bad movements, which were entrenched in my body - in this case, locking up my hand. The purposeful, problem-oriented (solution-oriented) practise did move. A physical retraining was needed.If you are a student who cannot do what a teacher is telling you to do and modeling, don't keep trying and trying and trying; and don't beat yourself up because what this teacher is saying isn't working; above all, don't persuade yourself that if the teacher says it will be easier for you, and it is not easier that it must be, quashing authentic observations that it isn't. Any solution has to match the problem. If elevator shoes help a short person reach a desired height, they won't do the same for a tall person. That is what good teaching is about. And if it's via the Internet, be especially careful because some things work better, and some work worse. And I do have a lot of experience working with teachers remotely.
Hi Vladimir, I will take up this offer.I think this is a fair challenge, as my recording is assuredly imperfect, and there may well be educational elements in this. I recorded this live in 2002, and I was a worse pianist then than I am now. It is also the most difficult thing I have ever played in public But enough excuses. It is variation XVIII from Alkan's "Festin d'Esope", sheet music https://imslp.org/wiki/Special:ImagefromIndex/03627/tofpg
Could you send a normal page instead of this "monitoring service"?
I don't know much about playing strings. I play the piano. But just from the great violin teachers I read that the most important and decisive in teaching is the "sound-making will". If the right musical image is formed in the head, then the body will inevitably create it in reality. If this musical image is not there, then no effort and methods will replace it.