Pianostreet Forum dying, how can we help?

[thalbergmad]

I know what we could do, let's invite Susan back ! Good idea Thal ? I reckon she’d fancy you with your new body.

She wouldht come anywhere near me unless i converted.

Would certainly increase the forum post count though.

Thal

[quantum]

A platform to do collaborative music would be a nice feature - realtime online duets, with the option of posting the result in the audition room after the fact.  Being able to do 2p4h across the internet within a community that truly appreciates the music and can bring forth meaningful discussion from it would be something quite valuable.  I would be interested improvising alongside a number of people on here. 

I've always liked the dark theme here at Pianostreet, out of all forums I regularly visit, this one is the most comfortable on the eyes.  Besides, dark mode appears to be in fashion - just look at the latest versions of macOS and W10. 

One of the aspects I really enjoyed about Pianostreet over the years, is the ability for detailed philosophical debate to take place without over moderation.  Tolerance and appreciation for alternate perspectives, over suppression upon discussions that reach a subjective threshold. 


***

With regard to locking editing of posts, I've voiced my concerns about this in the past but the currently policy brings the issue back.  Having a 10 day window to edit is certainly better than the period in the past when absolutely no editing was allowed.

For most sections of the forum it is probably a suitable solution, for the exception of the audition room.  The audition room contains intellectual property, in the form of our recordings, compositions and improvisations.  As this is a music focused forum, people here can appreciate the importance this intellectual property to the artists.  IMO creators should maintain control of their creative work at all times, and the editing lockout impedes this ability. 

There are some people who may have joined Pianostreet many years ago, and remain with the forum as they transition into different phases of their musical journeys.  What these people want to do with their old recordings posted in the audition room may change over time - it is a natural part of the artistic workflow.  At the very least Pianostreet should allow posters to edit audition room musical content without the need to contact customer service.

Personally, I have been hesitant to share my own music on here due to the editing lockout polices.  It does not mean I wish to stop sharing my music on here, it just means I think about it a little bit more before I do.  Out of all the music forums I frequent, this one has the most open ears and minds.  Pianostreet, has something special in that respect, and I hope this community of musicians will continue forward.

Understandably, there were some users in the past that abused editing posts, but those instances could be considered vary rare.  I urge the admins to consider updating the edit policy. 

[ted]

A platform to do collaborative music would be a nice feature - realtime online duets, with the option of posting the result in the audition room after the fact.  Being able to do 2p4h across the internet within a community that truly appreciates the music and can bring forth meaningful discussion from it would be something quite valuable.  I would be interested improvising alongside a number of people on here. 

How exactly would we make duet recordings of improvisation, Neil ? Leaving aside the musical aspect and my likely incompetence, what apparatus would I need ? Would I stick my iPad on the tripod and have a Skype connection ? How would the recording of it actually take place ?

[quantum]

It's just brainstorming at the moment, but I've seen bits and pieces of tech that makes me think this is possible, with all the individual components brought together as a whole. 

The following might be a starting point.  It uses MIDI data for the music, and a Skype link for communication.   What is happening is one person is playing a MIDI keyboard in one location, and that is controlling a Wurlitzer on the other end.  This is all happening across the internet in real time.  Watch both videos so you can see what happens on each respective side. 

[ted]

Thanks Neil. That is well beyond any apparatus I have at present. The only setup I can think of quickly, with what I have, is to improvise a duet live on Skype. That part would be easy, provided I could hear him decently and without a delay and he could hear me in similar fashion. It might prove necessary to redirect his playing through my hi-fi, and my playing through his, but that also is easy with bluetooth. If that turned out to be practical without feedback the recording could be done simultaneously using a separate device such as a Zoom, placed between my piano and my speakers, or similar at the other end of course. The other way would be to have both players use headphones, but then how would the recording happen ? I have insufficient knowledge of these matters.

[ranjit]

If I recall correctly, it is impossible to avoid some amount of lag video conferencing over the internet (about a second or so). I believe the reason had something to do with the speed of light.
This won't pose an issue if you're simply giving a performance over the internet, but would be a dealbreaker if you are trying to play a duet.

[ranjit]

Understandably, there were some users in the past that abused editing posts, but those instances could be considered vary rare.  I urge the admins to consider updating the edit policy.

+1
I've seen only one prominent case of this happening on Pianostreet (m1469). Other than that, I don't think misuse of editing privileges has been commonplace at all.

It appears that people still can't make unpaid accounts on this site. I don't see the situation improving until that comes back. Why would people pay for a largely dead forum when you have facebook, reddit, etc.? Sheet music can be found on imslp and even concert pianists don't buy sheets a lot of the time anymore. I don't see any reason why you'd sign up for a membership. Their only selling point seems to be the Audiovisual Study Tool, which doesn't make it worth a paid subscription imo

Around 300 people are online most of the time, out of which less than a dozen have posting privileges. Change that, and you will see a lot more activity on the site.

[Bob]

It appears that people still can't make unpaid accounts on this site.

Whoa, yeah.  I just checked... dang.  You have to put a credit card or paypal in and pay for a membership option.

[lostinidlewonder]

According to Nils earlier on in this thread:

"The free Silver membership with forum access will be back later this year in a new version. But we will investigate the possibility to temporarily re-open the legacy version soon or turning some other knobs in order to increase the activity in the short term."

So perhaps we will hear something about this sooner now.

[pianoman53]

What got me into the forum was the audition room. Now that's completely dead, and "the last post wins" is super active. If the members don't care about the core of it, then what's the point?

[ronde_des_sylphes]

The audition room is the best part of the forum. It is a treasure trove of good and, sometimes, quite excellent recordings made by people who on the whole don't have significant public exposure.

The amount of utterly inconsequential drivel which clutters up some of the other parts of the forum is a shame, but an inevitable facet of the internet.

[ted]

The audition room is the best part of the forum. It is a treasure trove of good and, sometimes, quite excellent recordings made by people who on the whole don't have significant public exposure.

The amount of utterly inconsequential drivel which clutters up some of the other parts of the forum is a shame, but an inevitable facet of the internet.

The ability to upload recordings directly also presents a major advantage over Pianoworld which, aside from the very small uploads permitted in the quarterly adult beginner recitals, does not allow this.

[lostinidlewonder]

There has been no word on turning back on the free membership option which I think is what has the most strangling effect on posts. *edit I noticed there is a new silver member who posted https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=65997.msg695708#msg695708
no idea how they created a silver account, I can't see any option for free account if going through new membership procedure.

... If the members don't care about the core of it, then what's the point?

It's just that there are not enough posts being generated for me to care most the time. I'm still responding to posts on other piano groups becasue of lack of new content here.

[nilsjohan]

There has been no word on turning back on the free membership option which I think is what has the most strangling effect on posts.

The free membership with forum access is finally opening up step by step. At the moment it is possible to sign up here:
https://www.pianostreet.com/signup_silver_special.php?ad=piecepage

[lostinidlewonder]

Any news on the official reactivation of the free subscription?

[timtim]

For many years I was only a lurker here, but registered some time ago. PianoStreet vs Pianoworld, looks like dying organism. There are few problems which I see vs the other successful forum, even though they have quite controversial and not too nice (to put it in delicate words) moderation team. Things which are a definite no here are:

1.   Forum is all black with white letter and small font. It’s really hard to read posts here (white on black) and it’s even harder to due small font. It really puts off when you have to concentrate a lot when you want to read.
2.   Forum needs paid registration, but this was discussed above. There should be “no credit card given” free only forum access. Many of us do not need all the extras.
3.   What you can read on PW in a week, here is like half year to year. Noone comes here.
4.   On PW there are internal competitions, recitals, live meettings, there is Kawai employee (but he acts as private person though) in the digital area.
5.   Why should anyone come to the forum where you have to wait for the reply for few days, when on another you have few replies within few hours?


Unfortunately PW is the biggest piano forum right now, and is only place where it lives as it should be, unfortunately. I do not know how to make people starting writing here, but there are also professional and advices. I think many good pianists went there. They have also very active technicians forum and top reputable piano rebuilders and consultants are posting there.

And it’s all easier for them, just because it’s American forum, therefore it’s easier to gather people.

And I just read both Sorabji's thread. No wonders that this forum is empty. And will be even more. All of you are sitting in your own bunkers and throwing grenads to each other, and thinking that this is funny. Each of you posting there thinks "my word is perfect and if someone thinks differently is an idiot whom I do not even want to try to understand".
If I would be new, and find this topic, I would go away and go to another forum (PW, ABRSM). On PW if do not kiss your opponent ass you will be kicked off, but tha'ts another story.

You, members are killing this forum.

[lostinidlewonder]

It's just the free membership that is killing this forum really. Pianoworld has members who chuck hissy fits and are very insecure, just have a look at how they responded to me in this thread: https://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2843617/always-build-up-never-break-down.html
So the way people interact is no different really.

[timtim]

It's just the free membership that is killing this forum really. Pianoworld has members who chuck hissy fits and are very insecure, just have a look at how they responded to me in this thread: https://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2843617/always-build-up-never-break-down.html
So the way people interact is no different really.

It's bit better, but everyone knows here how they treat people, so it's rather due to their KGB-like administration than people itself.

Few days ago I was banned there and called “stupid” and “sexist”, because there was one oversensitive girl who claimed that there is gender inequality in Amateur Cliburn 2020, and I asked by what is her problem, and the problem in that case is artificial and if she is so much for gender equality she can go work in the coal mine, and to look for inexisting things in piano competition. I was banner, called sexist by moderator and was accused of personal attack. When I did post where they see my “post full of sexism” no one of those stupids could shown it, they were just repeating themselves as parrots.  They will blame you of everything, thinking that they are omnipotent gods, and do not give you chance to answer, instead will hit you harder. Later on I found on SoundCloud and wrote what I think of her. Dunno whether she read it.  But she plays piano awfully btw

[lostinidlewonder]

Pianostreet is moderated much better than pianoworld imho, at least here the admin don't limit freedom of discussion or contribute to threads just to impose their authority, on pianoworld have enough cry babies on there who band together and they can influence moderators (especially when they are buddies, hows that for unbaised moderation?) Sure we have useless arguments here but thats no different to other places online, it shouldn't surprise users.

I had those parrots try to overtake my thread I showed above, I think they got very angry when I responded constantly and added to my thread some free knowledge to share with others. Funny that on a teachers forum they want to limit free knowledge and cry and complain, like I said, so many delicate petals and insecure people on pianoworld who like to cry to moderators so they can have their safe space lol.

[timtim]

Pianostreet is moderated much better than pianoworld imho, at least here the admin don't limit freedom of discussion or contribute to threads just to impose their authority, on pianoworld have enough cry babies on there who band together and they can influence moderators (especially when they are buddies, hows that for unbaised moderation?) Sure we have useless arguments here but thats no different to other places online, it shouldn't surprise users.

I had those parrots try to overtake my thread I showed above, I think they got very angry when I responded constantly and added to my thread some free knowledge to share with others. Funny that on a teachers forum they want to limit free knowledge and cry and complain, like I said, so many delicate petals and insecure people on pianoworld who like to cry to moderators so they can have their safe space lol.

Perfectly said. Nothing to add. They once told me that "pianoworld is not a place for free speech" and then banned. Of ourse those idiots cannot recognize you if you will make a new account 10minutes later.

meh, is doesn't make sense to discuss it anymore.
Thanks for warm words, you just made me feeling much better, because there are many more people thinking like us ( I received many words of support there in PM's just before they banned me), so that means that I am not wrong in my opinion.

Lets just make this place better and easier to read, so people will come here.

[ahinton]

And I just read both Sorabji's thread. No wonders that this forum is empty. And will be even more. All of you are sitting in your own bunkers and throwing grenads to each other, and thinking that this is funny. Each of you posting there thinks "my word is perfect and if someone thinks differently is an idiot whom I do not even want to try to understand".
If I would be new, and find this topic, I would go away and go to another forum (PW, ABRSM). On PW if do not kiss your opponent ass you will be kicked off, but tha'ts another story.

There are now three recently initiated threads with the name Sorabji in them. I understand your sentiments entirely. Some of the posts therein have indeed bordered on the absurd and would likely discourage some serious pianophiles from reading and participating in this forum. There are those who have never heard Sorabji's music; there are those who have heard a little or more of it and dislike it just as there are those whose familiarity with it leads them to take the opposite view; it is when expressions become arrogantly dogmatic and entrenched that sensible and serious discussion risks being pushed to one side in order to make room for them - and this, I imagine, does the forum no favour whatsoever. I do not expect anyone to enjoy or to deprecate Sorabji's music unless they do so; we do not all share the same views or tastes in anyone's music, but problems inevitably arise when personal opinions of it are paraded as facts, as is the case from time to time, albeit usually quite transparently.

Best,

Alistair

[jaquet]

I believe its dying because its not easy for phone use. Almost eveyone now uses purley a phone and rarely a computer aside from work. Thats why reddits and instagram are more sucessful currenlty, its soley because those are phone based applications. I understand that you can use it ona phone, but its not as easy to use because its not an app. Most people nowadays dont want to go on their computer to type when they can message whilst on the train or travelling. I thinks the decline is soley because phones have became the dominant medium for these sorts of "social" apps (social in quotation marks because they are anything but!). Maybe if they just made a phone app with a friendlier ui(for phone) and notifications on trending posts and responses to your posts, it could reach a wider audience. But im not sure.

[lostinidlewonder]

I believe its dying because its not easy for phone use. Almost eveyone now uses purley a phone and rarely a computer aside from work. Thats why reddits and instagram are more sucessful currenlty, its soley because those are phone based applications. I understand that you can use it ona phone, but its not as easy to use because its not an app. Most people nowadays dont want to go on their computer to type when they can message whilst on the train or travelling. I thinks the decline is soley because phones have became the dominant medium for these sorts of "social" apps (social in quotation marks because they are anything but!). Maybe if they just made a phone app with a friendlier ui(for phone) and notifications on trending posts and responses to your posts, it could reach a wider audience. But im not sure.

That's a good point. There is disrupting tech on its way set to make mobile phones a thing of the past (stylish and unintrusive wearable AR glasses), I've heard 2027 is the year, let's hope that's true!

[psipsi8]

That's a good point. There is disrupting tech on its way set to make mobile phones a thing of the past (stylish and unintrusive wearable AR glasses), I've heard 2027 is the year, let's hope that's true!

I hope so too. Besides, if it's made too easy to comment here, then most comments will be thoughtless and the discussions won't be fruitful. I don't consider this forum "social media" by the way.