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Topic: Unpopular Opinions  (Read 8413 times)

Offline winsto7

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #150 on: February 23, 2022, 02:05:23 PM
Unpopular opinion: As a barely classical, but more jazz/contemporary pianist, metronomes are overrated and inhibit your ability to truly play freely.

Offline klavieronin

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #151 on: February 24, 2022, 02:38:29 AM
Unpopular opinion: As a barely classical, but more jazz/contemporary pianist, metronomes are overrated and inhibit your ability to truly play freely.

I think that applies equally to classical music.

Offline bwl_13

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #152 on: February 24, 2022, 03:50:45 AM
I think that applies equally to classical music.
Agreed. I do think the metronome can be a useful tool for building technique or when trying to figure out the exact rhythm of a piece of music, but playing with metronome often does limit freedom
Second Year Undergrad:
Bach BWV 914
Beethoven Op. 58
Reger Op. 24 No. 5
Rachmaninoff Op. 39 No. 3 & No. 5

Offline jimf12

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #153 on: March 08, 2022, 08:09:32 PM
The whole point of a metronome is to limit freedom.   Being a slave to it I could see being bad, but I would have to disagree with the general premise if I understand correctly.   I even use a metronome on pieces I know will be played rubato, just to get my bearings straight.    At some point in the pieces development I ditch the metronome, for the very reason mentioned.   But starting out, or to just get a checkpoint, I do use it. 

Offline lelle

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #154 on: March 08, 2022, 10:38:02 PM
The whole point of a metronome is to limit freedom.   Being a slave to it I could see being bad, but I would have to disagree with the general premise if I understand correctly.   I even use a metronome on pieces I know will be played rubato, just to get my bearings straight.    At some point in the pieces development I ditch the metronome, for the very reason mentioned.   But starting out, or to just get a checkpoint, I do use it.

I think the metronome, used appropriately, is a useful tool. Like, you can use yourself to check that you are steady when it's necessary. But relying on it and playing everything with it I do not think is the quickest way to develop an internal sense of pull. Plus, most music is alive and has constant small fluctuations in pulse.

Offline iosquiii

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #155 on: July 11, 2022, 07:02:09 AM
Okay, I'll get the ball rolling. I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion per se but many music examinations insist on playing music from different periods. So, my "unpopular" opinion is this;

You don't need to study music from different periods to become a good pianist.

I agree with that, the problem is that it is difficult to escape some period, they are all important for the construction of the technique

Offline j_tour

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #156 on: October 04, 2022, 12:09:24 PM
The Sixto-Clementine Latin Vulgate translation of the New Testament is one of the only translations I can recommend.  As a decided non-theologian, and a non-expert in Latin language....just can read it OK.  I just don't like biblical passages or prayers in English, for reasons.  But don't worry, my koine Gk is much worse.

In Latin, spoken or read, trust me, is much nicer.

The *Nova Vulgata*...since 1979 the official RCC translation/revision...I don't have a print copy, and I don't care. 
My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.

Offline swilliams002

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #157 on: October 28, 2022, 05:54:16 PM
I have not read all the posts in this thread, so hopefully this has not been said before.

My (relatively) unpopular opinion: Hanon is a great way to build technique and facility at the piano.
The majority of those who criticize Hanon have not thought through things clearly and precisely. This comes from someone who used to trash Hanon, and wasted precious time that could have been spent mastering the exercises. Change my mind on one or both of these points.
"You shall seek me, and shall find me: when you shall seek me with all your heart." - Jeremias 29, 13

Offline robertus

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #158 on: October 29, 2022, 12:14:38 AM
My unpopular (but true) opinion is that training of equality and independence of the fingers is the most important aspect of piano technique, which is best developed by means of the exercises of Isidore Philip.

I am also in favor of practicing finger exercises while reading novels at the piano.

Offline Bob

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #159 on: October 29, 2022, 04:44:26 PM
I am also in favor of practicing finger exercises while reading novels at the piano.

Bingo.  Watching tv or a movie works too.  It does keep the fingers in shape.

What do you use to hold the book though?  I've been looking for a study boom mic type of stand... for years.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline robertus

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #160 on: October 29, 2022, 09:53:35 PM
Bingo.  Watching tv or a movie works too.  It does keep the fingers in shape.

What do you use to hold the book though?  I've been looking for a study boom mic type of stand... for years.

I try to find book which will stay open on their own! Or sometimes use other, heavier books to keep the pages open.

I've never tried watching TV or movies, though. Wouldn't the sound of the piano interfere with the other medium?

Offline klavieronin

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #161 on: August 10, 2023, 11:32:21 AM
This one came up with a student. Not sure what people here think but my student refused to accept this opinion.

When you're tired or don't feel like practising, doing some practice, even if its mechanical, absentminded or just for a few minutes, is still better than not practising at all.

Online transitional

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #162 on: August 11, 2023, 02:35:23 PM
Chopin's music is just random notes backed by the matching chords despite it "sounding good". Chopin was aware of this, though, if you look at his quotes.
Most underrated piece of all time is Mozart's K 533 sonata.

Offline klavieronin

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #163 on: August 12, 2023, 12:03:29 AM
Chopin's music is just random notes backed by the matching chords despite it "sounding good". Chopin was aware of this, though, if you look at his quotes.

I heard someone the other day play one of Chopin's nocturnes on solo violin (just the melody). It seems to me that if what you are saying is true then this should sound terrible, but it didn't. It sounded wonderful.

I'd love to see some of the quotes you are referring to though. Any chance you could provide some?

Offline lelle

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #164 on: August 12, 2023, 12:06:46 AM
Chopin's music is just random notes backed by the matching chords despite it "sounding good". Chopin was aware of this, though, if you look at his quotes.

As somebody who loves Chopin I'm TRIGGERED. Can you give an example of where it's just "random notes" backed by the matching chords?

Offline themeandvariation

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #165 on: August 12, 2023, 01:38:30 AM
Well, it would help if there was a little context to this supposed Chopin quote about his music being random notes....
Although Chopin does seem to be a bit self-deprecating, if this quote Was actually said - I would imagine a wry smile ... (he knows very well how meticulously he puts a composition together).
Anywho, Other composer's opinion of themselves run the gamut - and many are in doubt about their own ability.
Bach said: " I worked hard. Anyone who works as hard as I did can achieve the same results."
Oh, really!!
Ravel, when talking about Bolero said: "that the work had "no form, properly speaking, no development, no or almost no modulation".
It constitutes an experiment in a very special and limited direction, and should not be suspected of aiming at achieving anything different from, or anything more than, it actually does achieve. Before its first performance, I issued a warning to the effect that what I had written was a piece lasting seventeen minutes and consisting wholly of "orchestral tissue without music"

And many other composer as well.  So , ultimately, Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Of course.

And now, I'll leave you with some Chopin quotes. Cheerio!

Chopin:
I shall create a new world for myself. Simplicity is the final achievement. After one has played a vast quantity of notes and more notes, it is simplicity that emerges as the crowning reward of art.

It is dreadful when something weighs on your mind, not to have a soul to unburden yourself to. You know what I mean. I tell my piano the things I used to tell
you.
I wish I could throw off the thoughts which poison my happiness, but I take a kind
of pleasure in indulging
them.

Simplicity is the final achievement. After one has played a vast quantity of notes and more notes, it is simplicity that emerges as
the crowning reward of art.

I'm a revolutionary, money
means nothing to me.
Man is never always happy, and very often only a brief period of happiness is granted him in this world; so why escape from this dream
which cannot last long?

A long time ago I decided that my universe will be the
soul and heart of man.
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb
your repose later on.
My manuscripts sleep, while I cannot, for I am covered with
poultices.
Nothing is more odious than music without hidden
meaning.
After a rest in Edinburgh, where, passing a music-shop, I heard some blind man
playing a mazurka of mine.
One needs only to study a certain positioning of the hand in relation to the keys to obtain with ease the most beautiful sounds, to know how to play long notes and short notes and to achieve certain unlimited dexterity. A well formed technique, it seems to me, can control and vary a beautiful sound quality.

The Official Bulletin declared that the Poles should be as proud of me as the Germans are of Mozart; obvious
nonsense.
Bach is an astronomer, discovering the most marvelous stars. Beethoven challenges the universe. I only try to express the soul
and the heart of man.
Concerts are never real music, you have to give up the idea of hearing in them all the most beautiful things
of art.
My earthly body has been a terrible disappointment to
me.
To die is man's finest action
and what might be his worst?
To be born.
1 don't know how it is, but the Germans are amazed at me and I am amazed at them for finding anything to be
amazed about.
Here, whatever is not boring
is not English.
An arid melancholy has held
me for so long in its grip.
I have met a great celebrity, Madame Dudevant, known as George Sand. Her appearance is not to my liking. Indeed there is something about her which positively repels me. What an unattractive person La Sand is. Is she really a woman? Im inclined to doubt it.
I feel like a violin string E attached to a peasant double
bass.
Put all your soul into it. play
the way you feel!






4'33"

Online transitional

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #166 on: August 12, 2023, 01:16:31 PM
It's not that I hate Chopin, I just don't see the logic behind his compositions, I suppose. His pieces are super fun to play on piano. I don't want you to be offended by anything said on here as this is an "unpopular opinions" page.

Here you go:

"Simplicity is the final achievement. After one has played a vast quantity of notes and more notes, it is simplicity that emerges as the crowning reward of art."

"Bach is an astronomer, discovering the most marvellous stars. Beethoven challenges the universe. I only try to express the soul and the heart of man."

Most underrated piece of all time is Mozart's K 533 sonata.

Offline themeandvariation

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #167 on: August 12, 2023, 02:58:59 PM
Transitional: "I just don't see the logic behind his compositions, I suppose. His pieces are super fun to play on piano. I don't want you to be offended by anything said .."

No, the offense is that you said Chopin said his pieces are a collection of random notes..." Or perhaps you were paraphrasing. But Where is the quote you are referring to?
The quotes you offered were in my previous post, but they say nothing about this "random note" idea.
So, by your last post we understand that You don't see the logic behind his compositions. Perhaps you are conflating Your opinion - and saying it's Chopin's opinion as well.
4'33"

Offline keypeg

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #168 on: August 12, 2023, 05:06:27 PM
Taking "Simplicity is the final achievement ......"

It takes mastery to achieve simplicity, and even greater mastery for that simplicity to work.  Novices to a craft do complicated things, and they also are unable to achieve this simplicity.

Meanwhile, music that is written by formula and especially the formulas we learn and are taught will make it easy for us to grasp the structure and form.  Other music may be beyond our grasp, but that doesn't mean the notes are random - just that we haven't learned to grasp what is there.

Offline lelle

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #169 on: August 12, 2023, 09:32:04 PM
It's not that I hate Chopin, I just don't see the logic behind his compositions, I suppose. His pieces are super fun to play on piano. I don't want you to be offended by anything said on here as this is an "unpopular opinions" page.


I was being facetious, I'm not actually offended :D but I'm still curious if you can clarify, give an example of a composition or part that seems to lack logic/is random notes?

Online transitional

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #170 on: August 13, 2023, 11:59:40 PM
One example that I can pinpoint is his Nocturne in C# Minor, Op. posthumous. It doesn't draw me in, in fact, the first four bars are just a simple C-sharp minor cadence. I don't feel that the first few notes are followed by logic, they are simply producing tones on this scale. Many flourishes are characterized by triplets descending down the C#m scale - the final measures are flourishes on the scale as well. There is no sophisticated development, if there is one much at all. I understand that simplicity is hard to maintain when composing a piece, as many ideas often jump out at once. However, it is easy to refine and achieve a simple form. One argument says that Chopin simply builds on elementary theory, where all apparent innovation is hidden or not present. I don't really have much else to say on the matter, as I'm confused as well and it's stuck at the back of my head at the moment. Sorry if I sound too harsh, I couldn't really find any other way to get it across.
Most underrated piece of all time is Mozart's K 533 sonata.

Offline lelle

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #171 on: August 14, 2023, 06:56:43 PM
One example that I can pinpoint is his Nocturne in C# Minor, Op. posthumous. It doesn't draw me in, in fact, the first four bars are just a simple C-sharp minor cadence. I don't feel that the first few notes are followed by logic, they are simply producing tones on this scale. Many flourishes are characterized by triplets descending down the C#m scale - the final measures are flourishes on the scale as well. There is no sophisticated development, if there is one much at all. I understand that simplicity is hard to maintain when composing a piece, as many ideas often jump out at once. However, it is easy to refine and achieve a simple form. One argument says that Chopin simply builds on elementary theory, where all apparent innovation is hidden or not present. I don't really have much else to say on the matter, as I'm confused as well and it's stuck at the back of my head at the moment. Sorry if I sound too harsh, I couldn't really find any other way to get it across.

I do not think that Nocturne is the most refined example of his writing, to be honest, though it all sounds beautiful to the ear. It was published posthumously for a reason - Chopin didn't want it published during his life time. That particular piece was written as an exercise for his sister (I think) to prepare her for playing the 2nd piano concerto, and therefore includes some thematic material from that one.

Chopin does build a lot of his compositions on basic theory building blocks that he often decorates in innovative ways - that's what composers did in his time. But he also alternates that with harmonic innovations, and the way he puts it all together is what I think sets him apart as a composer. But I would not bring up that Nocturne as an example of his mastery, more like something like the Ballades.

Online transitional

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #172 on: August 14, 2023, 07:16:50 PM
Thank you! I'll have to think more about that. I haven't really explored all of Chopin yet, so I'll keep that in mind. There are so many great composers out there and sometimes I feel inclined to have to criticize them. (I once heard someone on another forum saying that many people like to criticize certain composers yet they don't write half as good music! lol!) I started composing recently and a lot of things I've been working on sound like Chopin, but my theory is still quite bare. Maybe that's how I feel that Chopin's compositions "lack logic," when I write pieces to sound good as well. To argue from that perspective, I could say the same about anything I've done (though I do feel that exact way.)
Most underrated piece of all time is Mozart's K 533 sonata.

Offline thorn

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #173 on: August 15, 2023, 11:17:01 AM
(I once heard someone on another forum saying that many people like to criticize certain composers yet they don't write half as good music! lol!)

Lol if being able to compose yourself were a prerequisite for criticising other composers then forums would be quiet places, not to mention the damage this would do to music journalists and academics (classical and non-classical alike!)  ::)

Offline resurrectcodeblack

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #174 on: August 26, 2023, 08:55:38 PM
My unpopular opinion: having never played them, thus only going off of my (rather good) powers of hearing, the Rach 2 is really boring. Compared to the Rach 3,. It makes so little musical sense. Sure, he wrote some beautiful tunes (Eric Carmen), but the intricate interplay between piano and orchestra that we hear in the Rach 3 is missing. I'd love to hear what people have to say on this.

Offline Bob

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
Reply #175 on: September 06, 2023, 11:39:41 PM
Routines can be good.

Thinking about music technically isn't blasphemy.

If you don't have the technique to play a piece, you can't really play that piece.  You can still play it, some version of it, but it's the not the same as having 100% of the technique to really play it.


I've never tried watching TV or movies, though. Wouldn't the sound of the piano interfere with the other medium?

Earbuds and headphones.  And pick technical things that don't require you listen to them so much.  Although I have noticed if you're not listening as closely, technique can get blurred up.  Like always playing scales fast... I can do that, but the imperfections between the notes go unnoticed.  Or, I can play faster if I normally do that, but not slower or medium.  It needs more concentration if I haven't done that for a long time.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."
 

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