Rachmaninov Concerto No. 2 mvt. 2 Adagio Sostenuto??

[leonardhofstader1]

Hi there, this is one of my first posts on this forum, maybe the first on this page. Before I start, I want to make a full disclaimer that it is not my intention to make this another 'how hard is this piece' or another 'i'm starting chopin etudes after playing for a year only'. That is never my intention and I hope you don't take this post as another silly non-professional post as this is one of my heart's desires.

I am a first year university student and at the end of the year, I have to pick an orchestral piece to play as part of a collaborative venture between musicians and also my end of year recital piece. One of my life's goals is to play the Rachmaninov's Second Concerto in it's entirety. However, I am aware of my limitations as part of being a pianist is recognising your own limitations. I have been self taught, and I primarily play by ear, and I know this sounds extremely stupid, but I have attempted Romantic Pieces by ear, and they have taken my technique and musicality farther than I have ever imagined.

Regarding this, I know I cannot even begin to attempt the 1st or 3rd movements, but I knew I could do it when I heard the 2nd.

So my questions to the professionals, whose time and gratitude I will admire greatly. I have a timespan of around 3 months to learn the movement.

- For a pianist who has been playing since 3-4 years, is it possible, technically and musically even
- My Hand-Span is only an Octave. Considering it's Rachmaninov, can I still do it
- The 2nd half of the movement consists of technically demanding elements. How do I tackle these
- I've never played with an orchestra so to those who have, I kindly ask your experiences and how I should myself, prepare to play.
- I know 3 months is most definitely not enough to develop my own interpretation and letting it sink in so, at what time should I have the notes under my hands confidently and at what time should I start orchestral rehearsals
- (cheeky bonus question) Can i learn the entire concerto in 2 years, learn all the notes, make it my own, as I'm planning to make it my final major work, which has to be a 40 minute recital.

A list of my romantic repertoire and my recorded pieces of that repertoire are below. Please let me know if you'd like to hear the audio of the remainder, as I haven't yet recorded all.


Sergei Rachmaninov Preludes Op 23 & 32
No. 5 in G Minor (Op. 23), No. 5 in G Major (Op. 32), No 10 in B Minor (Op. 32)

[medtnerfan]

I'll do my best to answer your questions. While I don't have any experience playing concertos (I'm currently learning my first one), I do have experience playing piano in a wind orchestra, as well as a lot of chamber music through professional accompanying.

- For a pianist who has been playing since 3-4 years, is it possible, technically and musically even

This will depend on you. I'm going to say that it will probably be very challenging. I happened to have written a list of potential technical difficulties in the 1st and 2nd movements of this concerto (I did this 2 years ago), I will copy them (for the 2nd mov) here as maybe it will help you gauge whether you can tackle them:

- 4 against 3 between piano and orchestra
- wide spreads / tricky pedalling
- 3 against 4 between piano and orchestra
- 3 against 2
- left hand passage work
- left hand: index to thumb from a 4th+ above thumb
- trill like passages
- 2 against 3 polyrhythms
- octaves with sustained note(s) in between
- Cadenza: repeated intervals, trill in both hands

- My Hand-Span is only an Octave. Considering it's Rachmaninov, can I still do it

Yes, for chords that span more than an octave you would to either roll them, or play part of the chord before the rest, like a grace note (kind of like how a string player would play a 3 or 4 note chord). I recommend watching this video from the pianist Ching-Yun Hu:

- The 2nd half of the movement consists of technically demanding elements. How do I tackle these

I recommend you watch this from the pianist Josh Wright (I recommend also checking out his youtube channel, along with another pianist named Graham Fitch): https://www.joshwrightpiano.com/webinar.html
If I would summarize practicing it would be this: Cut up a problem into digestable chunks, then slowly combine to the small chunks to make bigger ones, keep doing that until you get the full piece.
Also, since you're in university then you have a teacher to give you 1 on 1 advice.

- I've never played with an orchestra so to those who have, I kindly ask your experiences and how I should myself, prepare to play.

Chamber music will help in playing with others, since you're in university you probably have to do that anyway as part of your degree. Piano duets can also help.
Also, study the orchestra part, this can be time consuming so at least look at the second piano part (reduced version of the orchestra).
Also, you should be able to look at the conductor at crucial points (so make sure you can still play while looking away from your hands at those points), generally the conductor will follow the soloist, but if the soloist doesn't have any notes then that would be impossible, haha

- I know 3 months is most definitely not enough to develop my own interpretation and letting it sink in so, at what time should I have the notes under my hands confidently and at what time should I start orchestral rehearsals

From what I know you would usually have rehearsals with a second pianist playing the orchestral reduction (probably your teacher), but if your university gives you an opportunity to rehearse with an orchestra right away, that's cool but also kind of nerve racking. If you're rehearsing with the orchestra you should have it performance ready.
Also you ask about when you should start orchestral rehearsal, usually it's the orchestra that sets that up, not the pianist

- (cheeky bonus question) Can i learn the entire concerto in 2 years, learn all the notes, make it my own, as I'm planning to make it my final major work, which has to be a 40 minute recital.

If you think a work will take you 2 years (let's say you mean memorize and be performance ready to a certain point, not necessarily perfect), then you're probably not ready for it as it is very likely that you will get discouraged and . Check out this other video by Josh Wright about pacing your repertoire. Link:

Ear training is important, so it's good that you have that. But also work on your reading skills.

[medtnerfan]

Also, I should have mentioned this as well when it comes to preparing to play with an orchestra (this applies to chamber music as well). Practice with a recording (play while listening to a recording) before you start rehearsing, that will show you certain weak points, maybe they are places where you don't have solid control of the tempo or just getting overwhelmed by what going on.

[visitor]

I would not undertake this with your current to timeline , I don't believe it's enough even without factoring the challenges your background and lack of experience with collaborative solo plus ensemsble works will present.
You prob will still try , but if at all possible , wait until you successfully navigate other solo and orch works and /or (preferably both ) have way more time


Also , advise against trying that two year idea, bad idea , you'll get sick of it and rule of diminishing returns will affect your progress and execution.

Hoping Rach4ever can chime in , I'll defer to his remarks but I would not be surprised if he somewhat agrees w me

Hmm 3 months , you might try a single movement Rhapsody or 1 mov concerto , that mY be more appropriate, kabalevksy 3 would be great , iw 90 days 1 movement ,not entire thing , it's also my favorite concerto period , not favorite easy, or favorite for this or that , just favorite, it's that cool/good and digestible by many +players and audience alike

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Playing with orchestra is distracting as *** especially with that piece. 

When you set your starting tempo set it a little faster than you think cause the strings and woodwinds are gonna slow you waay down.

At rehearsal 18 you’re gonna need to push cause they’re gonna drag you again.

7 measures after rehearsal 20 you need to wait for the French horn cause he’s gonna come in on his own time and he has no idea what’s going on.  Same thing with one measure before 22 except it’s not French horn it’s strings.

One measure after 23 you have to accent the *** out of those big beats or else the orchestra won’t catch you at the pui Mosso and you’ll have a panic attack. 

The Pui Mosso is the hardest part by far.  Not only does your part have to be solid you have to be able to lock in with them if they don’t catch you.  They have no idea what’s going on there so it’s gonna be your responsibility to lead them.

One measure before 25 nobody actually plays that scale in time so just ask the conductor to give you some time to play the scale out.

...

The responsible thing for me to say is You’re going to kill yourself tryna come up with a finished product in three months with your level of experience BUT hey throwing yourself off the deep end like that might be good for you.  If you pull it off you’re gonna grow a lot  but if it’s a total catastrophe (more likely) it’s still a learning experience and you’re still gonna grow a lot from pushing yourself...  and I guess you’ll have a funny story to tell people about how you tried to do rach 2 in 3 months lol.  I mean I can’t really blame you though if any of y’all had a chance to play with orchestra even with a limited amount of time I bet some of you including me would still take it.

[themeandvariation]

Um... something has been overlooked in these responses... "I have been self taught, and I primarily play by ear, and I know this sounds extremely stupid, "
So how are they to know bar 23, or where the conductor is referring, 3 against 4, and the patience of others strained during rehearsal.. I don't know, unless you are Buddy Rich - one non reader.

[goldentone]

Um... something has been overlooked in these responses...

I was wondering the same myself.  The whole story does not sound credible.

[perfect_pitch]

You also realise that the poster added in a couple of dodgy hyperlinks??? This thread is dead.

[petrovianov]

the reason why the post's hyperlinks are dead is because I am the original poster of this question, you can see for yourselves here. https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=65203.msg689707#msg689707

Don't know what made leonardhofstader1 copy my own message, personally I don't mind but when I asked it originally about 2 years ago, was discouraged from playing it

[medtnerfan]

The original (I guess not so original, haha) poster was just a spam account who copied your post to seem like an authentic person.
Hopefully the new responses are more informative than just people telling you that you're not ready without giving more info on how to proceed.