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Topic: Bach WTC which version? (Read 3221 times)

hiroica

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I’m learning the prelude of bwv 872 (book 2 number 3 C sharp). My question is this. I have looked at a couple different versions Czerny and Kroll, but there are different notes in the two. what is generally accepted as the definitive version for this piece? Is it normal that different versions have different notes? Sorry I’m new to playing classical piano but I love Bach so much I had to learn

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ivorycherry

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Re: Bach WTC which version?

Reply #1 on: January 21, 2021, 03:09:28 AM

It is very common that different versions have different notes. The Henle edition is probably best for Bach. Don’t take my opinion seriously because im not very experienced but an alternative for Henle for me would be the czerny editon even though his tempo markings are insane(way too fast most of the time IMO).

Hope this helps,
Alex

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hiroica

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Re: Bach WTC which version?

Reply #2 on: January 21, 2021, 06:45:44 AM

Quote from: ivorycherry on January 21, 2021, 03:09:28 AM

It is very common that different versions have different notes. The Henle edition is probably best for Bach. Don’t take my opinion seriously because im not very experienced but an alternative for Henle for me would be the czerny editon even though his tempo markings are insane(way too fast most of the time IMO).

Hope this helps,
Alex

Awesome! Thank you Alex!

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nw746

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Re: Bach WTC which version?

Reply #3 on: January 21, 2021, 07:52:28 AM

There are two separate versions of this particular prelude (an early and a late version). Which one you play is up to you, although the later version—found in the Czerny text—is nowadays considered more authentic. The Henle urtext of WTC2 is fine, I always like how their scores look, but for the most up to date scholarship I would recommend the Bärenreiter Neue-Bach-Ausgabe, if you can find it. https://www.baerenreiter.com/en/catalogue/complete-editions/bach-johann-sebastian/nba/

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anacrusis

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Re: Bach WTC which version?

Reply #4 on: January 21, 2021, 09:38:08 PM

I think highly both of Henle and Bärenreiter. I personally own WTC2 in Henle.

Are there any significant differences between the Henle WTC2 and the Bärenreiter WTC2?

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nw746

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Re: Bach WTC which version?

Reply #5 on: January 21, 2021, 11:13:14 PM

I don't own the Henle WTC2 so I don't know. I assume any differences would be slight, though, and only of interest to huge nerds like myself (e.g. the Bärenreiter contains alternate & early versions of some of the pieces in an appendix; I'm not sure if the Henle does. But those early versions are not really worth playing and only useful as insights into Bach's compositional process.)

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quantum

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Re: Bach WTC which version?

Reply #6 on: January 22, 2021, 06:48:56 AM

I've got Bärenreiter and can highly recommend it for Bach's music. Bärenreiter publishes the complete works of Bach from the Neue Bach-Ausgabe, which is a scholarly edition. It's strengths are that the edition represents the latest state of research with regard to the music of Bach.

It has off-white paper, binding in signatures, enjoyable to use at the instrument.

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j_tour

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Re: Bach WTC which version?

Reply #7 on: January 23, 2021, 01:06:55 AM

Well, I was curious and since I have the Henle WTCII with the Schiff fingerings, and in the notes at the end the editor, Yo Tomita, supplies two variants of the BWV 872, along with a lengthy explanation of his or her reasons for editing the volume as such. And, to boot, in Fr, German, and Eng., so anyone can read. It's a pretty long entry under the variants for BWV 872, but I have not compared to the current state of scholarship.

I don't doubt the Bärenreiter and their publishing house following the Neue Bach-Asgabe tradition, but from what I can see in my hands, the Henle is up to date and more affordable, perhaps. I don't know the prices or how desirable the Schiff fingerings are, but the Henle is a recent edition. It sounds like the Bärenreiter is equally or more good.

Although, do I have to be the first person to suggest that one look at all the engravings and editions? Really, I still look at the Busoni editions for Bach WTCI and WTCII, to get some ideas. One should be looking at old, old editions at the library, or student editions and so forth....one must look at all of them and synthesize.

For a stupid example, I was unhappy with my LH after a number of months of not playing for various reasons, and I thought the Emaj fugue from WTCI would be good practice (along with the Scriabin Op. 67 no. 2) as an abstract exercise. You know, go back to the woodshed and do H.S. for a bit, as one does. Just scales and bouncing around with the LH: jazz stuff, you know, but isolated a bit.

It never occurred to me for a long time to do HS for the WTCI Emaj fugue, but I printed out a few sheets of Busoni's edition and voilà.

You should read it all, is my guess. Purchasing? Yeah, sure. I'd go with the latest Neue Bach Asgabe, but even though I don't agree with Schiff's fingerings in the latest Henle, with the caveat that I only read habitually through the 48, mostly not paying much attention: that's also a good edition. I have no idea about the latest WTCI from Henle: I only have an older Peters edition in print, plus a bunch of photocopies of different editions, and a lot of my own pencil marks and so forth.

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My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America. Bad word make me sad.

nw746

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Re: Bach WTC which version?

Reply #8 on: January 23, 2021, 01:42:58 AM

I only ever buy or download urtext editions or first editions, because I don't want anyone else's fingerings or "interpretive suggestions"—I'll always end up writing my own in over them anyway. It can sometimes be worth looking at edited editions to see what that particular set of editors has suggested, if you're trying to open your mind to a wide range of possibilities, but probably more unhelpful than helpful on the whole and can cause you to imprint on incorrect forms of interpretation (e.g. using the pedal in Bach; using dynamics in Bach; not using the pedal in the exact manner specified in Beethoven; ignoring a composer's metronome marks, or choosing a "pianistic" suggestion by a pianist-editor rather than an accurate suggestion from someone who has studied the performance practice of the period, etc)

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j_tour

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Re: Bach WTC which version?

Reply #9 on: January 23, 2021, 01:58:34 AM

Quote from: nw746 on January 23, 2021, 01:42:58 AM

I only ever buy or download urtext editions or first editions, because I don't want anyone else's fingerings or "interpretive suggestions"—I'll always end up writing my own in over them anyway. It can sometimes be worth looking at edited editions to see what that particular set of editors has suggested[...]

Yeah, but isn't that always how one looks at historical documents, like Busoni "editions" or Czerny and so forth? And to the present day, you know, aberrations exist.

I like your idea: start with a clean score, examine all the possible variants, and pencil in ideas (whether it be phrasing, or even fingerings, or whatever) in a tentative manner.

I'd be lost without multiple disposable printed pages of various pieces I can just mark out pulses or rewrite eccentric notations (ahem....Scriabin...). Then, one can finally come back to a good performance score of one's own.

EDIT: As well, various "editors" like, Busoni or somebody somehow imprint their own Zeitgeist upon the score, and very often explain at great length their decisions. These "editions" (or, I would probably say, "reinscriptions," perhaps) are valuable from an historical point of view. Well, it is entertaining to me.

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My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America. Bad word make me sad.

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