Sibling keeps interrupting lesson

[bethany]

Hey everyone! I'm new to this site, but was hoping someone could help me.
I have 2 sibling students but am finding it increasingly hard to teach them! Their parents cannot sit in on lessons, so it is just me, a 7 year old and 9 year old. They keep interrupting each others' lesson with comments, toilet breaks etc. Also when I am talking they often interrupt with questions or by playing their favourite piece. I provide colouring pages for them and their parents give them books to read, but to no avail. I try to (smilingly, nicely) say "this is ...'s lesson time so you need to keep drawing and I'll look at it later" but the message is just not getting through. They are just very happy children, not trying to be naughty, but it is getting unmanageable. Does anyone have any advice? I've only been teaching for 5 years, and this happened the other time I had siblings as well.

[compline]

Bethany , is it possible to teach them in their own home, when one child can stay in a room where a parent is? 

How long a session per student ?

[bethany]

I can't teach them in their own home unfortunately! I am doing a Masters and am too busy to drive around.
It is half an hour per student.

[bethany]

I don't have any such problems with students by themselves, almost no issues with any of them really. It is only when there are siblings that I can't keep them engaged and lose control. It was a shame last time but I don't want to lose these two 😔

[quantum]

Hi and welcome to Pianostreet.

What about trying to make part of the time a "group lesson."  You could give both children an activity to work on at the beginning of the lesson, which will require them quiet solitary time to complete during the lesson.  At the end of the lesson you check the completion of the assignment. 

Try to enforce the idea that the entire hour is study time, it is not half our study half hour play.  Get parents to help you in on this.  Come to an understanding with the children that their lesson is one hour in length, and you need their attention during that time. 

Have them play duets. 

Play games that have them communicate using some sort of musical concept, as opposed  to verbal interaction.  Call and response improvisation is an example.

Have one child draw what the other is playing.  Make it a game, so they interact through music and drawing and not talking.  One can also do the inverse, have a child improvise a piece of music based on the drawing of their sibling. 

[bethany]

Thank you Quantum these are such useful tips!!! I'm going to take notes and apply heaps of these!!! Have a great day! 

[lostinidlewonder]

You mean the parent is paying for both of them to have lessons, one after each other, but you are required to babysit one when the other is having a lesson? That is crazy.

[compline]

You mean the parent is paying for both of them to have lessons, one after each other, but you are required to babysit one when the other is having a lesson? That is crazy.

I would tend to agree really. 

[quantum]

You mean the parent is paying for both of them to have lessons, one after each other, but you are required to babysit one when the other is having a lesson? That is crazy.

Absolutely agree!

Although we can think up ways to turn these disruptions into moments for teaching, there still needs to be established a foundational discipline in the household in question that lesson time is just that, and babysitting is not what the teacher signed up for. 

Parents must do their part in establishing a defined learning space during lesson time. 

[anacrusis]

Honestly, half an hour may be too long for some 7-year-olds. And if you are going to do it as a group lesson, I think 1 hour may be too long, too. When I have taught 6-7 year-olds-they can sit still for about 20 minutes, and if the lesson is 30 minutes they get increasingly squirmy the last 10 minutes even if they are interested in the piano

And I think the other posters are right, you shouldn't have to babysit unruly children who are not even having a lesson. You are paid to teach, not babysit. The parents will have to figure something out.

[timothy42b]

You mean the parent is paying for both of them to have lessons, one after each other, but you are required to babysit one when the other is having a lesson? That is crazy.

I agree.  The parents probably have no idea how disruptive their kids are, but they're getting a nice deal on free babysitting.

While you should not have to put up with this, at the same time it shows some lack of behavior management skills.  Most of us here would not put up with the parents - but also most of us would tell the kids to behave and they would comply.  These are skills honed by years of experience, but they can be learned.  Perhaps you could observe a skilled classroom teacher controlling kids of that age.  Not saying it's your fault at all, but it might be an opportunity for you to add a skill. 

[keypeg]

Perhaps you could observe a skilled classroom teacher controlling kids of that age.

I taught grade 2, and that age group.  Having one student sit doing nothing or even just colouring, not being able to move about, for half an hour, then concentrate for half an hour -  or be the one to have the lesson first and then have to sit for that long - don't see it.

Recently I talked to a teacher who has this scenario, and to make it worse, it has now moved to being remote lessons due to the pandemic.  The total time is an hour, but the siblings spell each other off every 10 minutes.  It's like musical chairs.  Teacher says "Switch!" and they hop into each other's seat.  Not only that, but they're to watch what the other is doing.  "Can you help?"  This keeps it alive and active.  The kids see it as a fun game.

[bethany]

These are all really good points, thank you so much everyone! Especially about the free babysitting thing, dang. Never realized that it might be being taken advantage of! I definitely know I don't have great behaviour management skills, I just started a Master of Teaching so am keen to get heaps of advice from an experienced classroom teacher ASAP.
I think I'll have a good chat to the children next week about how things are going to be a lot different from now on, put my foot down a bit more. I also might make it lesson policy that if there are siblings and they take turns I need to be paid extra for the time managing the other child. I won't enforce it retroactively but it will save me headaches in the future! Also I like the idea of 20 minutes sessions then swapping, have tried doing group work and games but might structure it in more frequently. Also might set up a system where if there are no interruptions to a session they both get a point (I use a point incentive program), if there is an interruption they both lose a point. Going to refer back here quite a lot in the next few weeks, I really appreciate all of your help! 💙💙💙

[quantum]

I think I'll have a good chat to the children next week about how things are going to be a lot different from now on, put my foot down a bit more.

Make sure to include the parents as well in your talk.  The home environment can be very reflective on what parents do or do not do, so they need to be made aware of your expectations for setting up a good learning environment.  Parents have a part in setting up the learning space, and they need to be aware of their role in successful music lessons. 

I won't enforce it retroactively but it will save me headaches in the future!

IMO any matter of studio policy is best kept consistent for all students in your studio.  If different policies are in effect for every student, it can become very easy to loose track of which policy each student is expected to follow.  Parents can also talk amongst themselves and you might be called into question of why policies are different. 

If you are going to roll out a policy change, do it for all your students at the same time.  If some students leave because of this change, you have really got to consider if they were a good fit for your studio in the first place.  It would be a better situation for you if you just had students and families that shared your vision of a good learning space. 

[lostinidlewonder]

also might make it lesson policy that if there are siblings and they take turns I need to be paid extra for the time managing the other child.

Of course you have to use your own judgement and certain situations may arise where it is totally ok to do this but I personally would avoid this if possible.

Three ideas that I think should be considered: saftey, sibling rivalry and training focus.


SAFTEY: If the students are coming to your studio and being left there you have a duty of care for them. I know this sounds melodramatic but imagine if one of these kids who are waiting for their lesson injures themselves while you are not looking. You just can't care for these youngsters without negatively impacting on your teaching product.

RIVALRY: Also siblings being in the same room while having lessons is usually a bad idea. Siblings often compete with one another on many different levels, if one sees they are having a different experience during lessons (doing better or worse) it will impact on their motivation, they should not really listen in on each others lessons because of this.

FOCUS: The major advantage of one on one lessons is that you can assist a students ability to focus on a personal level. This is something that you just cannot do when teaching a large classroom. It is impossible to micromanage each and every students attention requirements. So as you add more students to your classroom you limit this great advantage.

Many young students have challenges to focus during one on one lessons. If you then have another student sitting around who also needs their attention managed this multiasking can be very difficult, the students with distract one other unavoidably and just add to the teaching challenge. Many kids who have lessons with me are overworked, they have many activities outside of school, they hardly have a break. So in lessons often I have an exhausted student to deal with which does take a lot of energy on my side to support them. When I am motivating a tired students to go through their work effectively this requires a constant connection with them, if suddenly my attention goes over to another student I can't maintain that support effectively and the student at the piano suffers (they are allowed to break free of focus training during a period where it should be maintained).

During lessons with tired students I notice a disconnection from them periodically, it is important to allow them that disconnect but you should be able to renew quickly after they have had enough rest. These rest points however need to be carefully managed and you must push the student to work through periods of wanting to rest. This dance of attention plays a large role in many of my lessons and would be disrupted by another student requiring attention.

[bethany]

I absolutely will avoid it for all the reasons you mentioned and the fact that, to sum up, it's exhausting! It is such a comfort to hear from everyone that it is hard to pull off and should be avoided, makes me feel better about my not managing well. I.e. it's not just hard because I'm inexperienced, it's hard because it's HARD. I will definitely avoid this in future, but for now will manage as best as I can using the tips you all have so kindly provided. The lessons are on Tuesday so I'l give an update on what I do and how it all goes! 💜💙💜💙💜💙💜💙💜

[bethany]

Hello everyone!
Just am happy to report that I instituted a rule of only two questions/comments during the siblings lesson. They were both good to obey it and were very conscientious! I also instituted the idea of switching the lessons every 15 minutes, which helped them stay engaged throughout and not fidget as much. I'll keep referring back here if I need more help, but I really appreciate all your input, I was getting so stressed out! Take care!