Suggestions for systematic training regarding Chopin Etudes?

[claireliii]

I feel the lack of discussion on the methodology of systematic practices for piano in general. Especially for virtuosity repertoire like Chopin Etudes(such as op.10 no.1/4/8/12 where there is a lot of running), I would like to ask you guys input on what do you think is the most effective way to get an etude into shape from scratch?
More specifically, what do you do in the primary stage of learning? Do you practice slowing and raise your fingers up for each note and treat it like a Hanon exercise to get the strength you nee

In the intermediate stage, do you practice with different groupings? articulations? etc

In the finally stage, what do you do to increase the speed?

There is no right or wrong and it varies across individuals I think but it is ac least beneficial for us to discuss about it.

[brogers70]

I'm an amateur and I've only learned a few of the Chopin Etudes, and none to professional performance tempo, so take this with that in mind.

I start by picking a typical measure or two that exemplifies whatever thing is the technical point of the etude - the hand opening and closing in 25/12, the arpeggios in 10/1, the circular motions in 25/1, whatever. Then I work on finding the motion in the more difficult hand that makes it as easy as possible and I try to get that motion up to as good a speed as I can.

Then I learn the notes through, HS and then HT, at a slow tempo, but keeping the motion I figured out above, and memorize them.

Then to work both on speed and getting it really solid in the memory I do a couple of things. I pick a few measures to work on and play them with a really sharp finger staccato; that helps you to learn to get your fingers off the keys quickly when you speed up.  Then I do a ton of groupings 2's, 3's,4's,5's 6's 7's in all possible combinations in each grouping (e.g for threes, short-short-long, short-long-short, long-short-short) with as long a pause as I want on the long note to relax and think about what I want to do in the next set of short notes. Then I do a bunch of relaxation exercises to let the arms and fingers be as relaxed as possible.

Then when I want to bring it to a faster tempo, I just aim to play very short sections at speed until they are comfortable and then gradually link them together.

As I said, I'm just an amateur, but this approach has helped me make far more progress than I thought possible on the Etudes. None of it is my own invention, either, of course; mostly its suggestions I got from Josh Wright and Graham Fitch, both of whom have good on-line tutorials.

[lostinidlewonder]

I think using Chopin etudes for initial technical skill aquisition or practice method to deal with many technical challenges is not a good idea although people do it because they are inspired by them (or is it obsessed?). The etudes should be used only once you are ready to try them and then you can build upon your technical ability much easier since there is a solid experience base to build upon. Thus questions that you have given will all be answered quite clearly on your terms.

If you take a particular etude under inspection we can analyze specific bars and write out what thoughts could go through your head to control the notes and understand the fingering patterns. It is a difficult process to do away from the piano, most people don't do it online in detail because they can't describe what they want to in words and demonstrating on the keyboard is worth many more words. Describing technique in words is very clumsy and open to misinterpretation.

Questions about how to increase tempo would require a specific situation to discuss because the practice method you can apply to each situation is different. Really one should have a large list of practice tools at their disposal so these kind of questions become really rather small ones. If you are creating practice tools for the first time with the Chopin Etudes you are simply going to go into it all at a disadvantage.

[lelle]

I feel the lack of discussion on the methodology of systematic practices for piano in general. Especially for virtuosity repertoire like Chopin Etudes(such as op.10 no.1/4/8/12 where there is a lot of running), I would like to ask you guys input on what do you think is the most effective way to get an etude into shape from scratch?
More specifically, what do you do in the primary stage of learning? Do you practice slowing and raise your fingers up for each note and treat it like a Hanon exercise to get the strength you nee

I think most importantly for Chopin Etudes you need a good foundation so it's not such a challenge to tackle the Etude, but you more or less already know the things you need to know to just start working on it.

I would not recommend lifting your fingers or treating it like an exercise that would involve that type of movement. Chopin's technique (or all technique, I would say) is about a good, beautiful legato, which you get from being relaxed and supple when you play. If you know how to stay supple while you play, and have such a command over your body that you can do it even in the more complicated patterns used in the Etudes, you mostly have to learn the notes slowly until you can play faster to learn the Etudes. So my practise "method" would be 1. get a good foundation 2. practise them beautifully and slowly (and make sure you stay supple) 3. play them faster once you are able to, and continue practising slowly-midtempo

[stringoverstrung]

On your question on the first phase:

You should definitely get a copy of the Cortot edition de travail.

It contains preliminary sets of exercises for every etude and thus immediately points out to you what the specific diffilculty/hurdle is for you even before you tackle the Etude itself.

[schwammerl]

I am studying for my pleasure, without a teacher, so take this with a pinch of salt. Like you, I miss information about the day-to-day "how to". However, I have found a couple of videos on Youtube (look for Cedarville Music) that were really helpful.

The guy who made the video stressed the practicing at a slow tempo, quite relaxed, without forcing, and the importance of "not practicing the wrong notes". I decided to stick to it, so much that I had a "slow down!" sign made (like the house sign, but with "slow down!" written on it) to be constantly reminded of the need to proceed slowly, unhurriedly, without trying to force the tempo, only paying attention that the fingering and the notes played are right.

Five months later, I am quite surprised at how fast my "The Entertainer" (way above my piano "pay grade", and started from scratch almost as a "fun project" to see where I would hit my head on the wall) has been progressing. I can now play it decently well at a slightly slow tempo and, again, it grew organically, without forcing, and playing it right. Some Youtube videos helped, but the Cedarville guy was the best help.

Also, my hands are now stretched compared to the start, and I can play well chords and combinations of notes that were only barely reachable at the start of the work. No strain, no injuries, no anxieties; just slow, comfortable practice. 

This is the best single piece of advice I, in my ignorance, can give for any difficult piece, actually for any piece.

Worry about doing it right *at a very slow tempo* and don't worry overly about the rest. The rest will come to your fingers naturally and, when you can play it at a halfway decent tempo, it will be already right, so no sloppy playing and no extra work to clean your playing of all the mistakes you have accumulated. 

For the record, I have now started banging my head on Chopin Etude 10.2.
I am following the same method, and it allows me to practice chromatic scales without dying of boredom.