Chopin Etude Op.10 No. 4

[jamesyur]

Hey, i'm currently trying to learn this etude and I was just wondering if anyone who can play this can give some advice on the best place to begin (because i know that with some pieces, starting with the end can be better than starting at the beginning of the piece) , and if there are any good ways to practice the more technical sections. I'm currently playing to a grade 5 standard, and I understand that an etude is an extreme jump, which is why im sure that the speed and precision will come with time, thanks!

[lelle]

I wouldn't really look at it as having any particular best place to begin, you'll need to practise all of it anyways, some parts more than others. So why not just start at the beginning? Go through it once, check how all the parts go, what parts are easier, and what parts are harder, and then decide which parts you need to work the most on and therefore may be good choices to start at.

There are many ways you could practise this piece, and what you need to work on depends on where your technique is at, so it's a rather open-ended question. Do you have something more specific you are wondering about? I could maybe help you out better in that case.

[jamesyur]

I went through the beginning and i am fairly comfortable with it, i have decided to work on the end now, and although it does seem relatively simple, im struggling a bit to play the left hand, are there anyways to make it easier on the left hand? thanks!

[lelle]

I went through the beginning and i am fairly comfortable with it, i have decided to work on the end now, and although it does seem relatively simple, im struggling a bit to play the left hand, are there anyways to make it easier on the left hand? thanks!

If you are thinking about the place where you sort of have to jump back and forth with the left hand during the final mad dash to the end, watch out so you don't tense your hand and spread out your fingers in an attempt to anticipate/reach the wide interval. Keep your hand very loose and supple at all times, as if it didn't know that there is a wide jump going on, and practise moving smoothly in a slow tempo and you'll eventually be able to do it faster.

The goal is that the etude shouldn't make you feel tense, fatigued, or like you need to use effort to play it. It should all feel very easy in the end even if that may seem like a challenge now. Suppleness of hand and arm and smooth movements are needed to move in that direction.

[jamesyur]

hey so sorry for not seeing this sooner i haven't been active since im doing a lot of exams for school but im on break right now. Thanks for your helpful advice again it's definitely useful. One more question though. I use a Roland electronic piano at home and i struggle with repeated notes and was wondering if this is just something to do with electronic pianos or if my technique is really just that bad haha! thanks again 

[anacrusis]

hey so sorry for not seeing this sooner i haven't been active since im doing a lot of exams for school but im on break right now. Thanks for your helpful advice again it's definitely useful. One more question though. I use a Roland electronic piano at home and i struggle with repeated notes and was wondering if this is just something to do with electronic pianos or if my technique is really just that bad haha! thanks again 

Repeated notes can be hard until you find the technique. It can sometimes be made more difficult if the action of the piano is not responsive. I don't know how your Roland fares in the regard. Can you find a grand piano somewhere and report back? 

[keypeg]

I use a Roland electronic piano at home and i struggle with repeated notes and was wondering if this is just something to do with electronic pianos or if my technique is really just that bad haha! thanks again.

I imagine that Roland makes different levels of digital pianos - dps (the name we use for electronic pianos ), and I'd not be familiar with yours even if I did know which one.  But do know some things about dps.  I'll try to give a run-down.

How a dp works:
- There are three sensors that sense the motion of a key and pass this information on to the software which then tells the piano to emit a sound.  As I understand, they are sort of like on- off switches, and the third tells the piano how fast the key is traveling from point A to point B which translates into loudness.  Where those sensors are located can have an effect.  If your key has to travel almost all the way up, and almost all the way down, in order for the on-off to engage, then you can't play repeated notes as fast because of the huge travel you have to do.

- The keys are also levers, which on an acoustic piano send hammers flying.  That is also different between upright and grand pianos (fly horizontally and fall back vs. fly upward and fall down).  The grand also has an "escapement" that was created for faster playing of repeated notes.  Forgetting all that, focusing on the lever part - if you go to the playground and explore a teeter totter with a someone at the other end, how this feels depends on where the friend is sitting, and where you are pushing (at the very end, closer toward the middle (fulcrum).  So there's the mechanical action.

I suppose the only way to tell would be to play different pianos and see what you're able to do - which part is you, and which part is the piano.  You'd also have to experiment of range of movement of the key, feeling out its movement.

I switched to a hybrid piano (Kawai CA97) where they tried to optimize these things, and it did change what I was able to do.  My technique was also subpar, but in part my original dp (a cheapish entry level Yamaha) also affected how I was using my hands.

[j_tour]

How a dp works:
- There are three sensors that sense the motion of a key and pass this information on to the software which then tells the piano to emit a sound.  As I understand, they are sort of like on- off switches, and the third tells the piano how fast the key is traveling from point A to point B which translates into loudness.  Where those sensors are located can have an effect.  If your key has to travel almost all the way up, and almost all the way down, in order for the on-off to engage, then you can't play repeated notes as fast because of the huge travel you have to do.

That is true. 

And the username checks out! 

One can see the various effects most plainly when comparing waterfall Hammond-style semi-weighted actions (I think those are all made by Fatar, including in the Hammond-Suzuki keyboards, but I could be wrong:  I still use a Hammond-Suzuki XK-1 for organ, often MIDI'ed to the weighted piano for the lower manual.  Not ideal, but it's a compromise which fits my needs), which have a trigger sensitive to a really shallow depth. 

In other words, towards the "top" of the key.  It's not a simple verkakte spring-weighted "synth" action, but it's in the same ballpark, and it's a good balance between the resistance on a real Hammond organ (which is mechanical in nature) and how one can have had it reproduced with modern manufacturing.  Very easy to trigger fast repeated notes, by just adapting to the trigger at the top of the key travel.

However, on the Yamaha graded hammer action (yes, I know they've made quite a few advancements in their latest high-end offerings), the trigger is very much at the bottom of the keybed.

It's almost as bad as the electro-mechanical Rhodes piano.

That said, I find it pretty easy to do single-note trills on the Yamaha action.  It's not ideal, but maybe 80%  of the way to a proper piano action.  Close enough for jazz, although I wouldn't want to use it for anything important in a concert setting.

I don't have a video recording, but it's more than adequate to do the K141 of Scarlatti at a pretty good pace.

It is a lot of wasted effort, though, using the forearms to adapt to this kind of chunky action:  it can be pretty tiring to the forearms and shoulders, even using what I think is pretty good, if not impeccable, technique on my part.

However, it's always in tune, and while it's a bit of a chore to carry around in a case, even a light "gig bag," plus amp and speakers and all that, it's almost always superior to having to adapt to some beat-up "house piano."  At least it's consistent, so one can predict.

Pretty much compromises and I'm resigned to just have these solutions be "good enough." 

[ranjit]

The keys are also levers, which on an acoustic piano send hammers flying.  That is also different between upright and grand pianos (fly horizontally and fall back vs. fly upward and fall down).  The grand also has an "escapement" that was created for faster playing of repeated notes.  Forgetting all that, focusing on the lever part - if you go to the playground and explore a teeter totter with a someone at the other end, how this feels depends on where the friend is sitting, and where you are pushing (at the very end, closer toward the middle (fulcrum).  So there's the mechanical action.

Just wanted to add something here. If I remember correctly, the fulcrum on an acoustic piano is considerably behind the end of the key (about 50% of the key length, I believe). This results in having leverage even at the top end of the key.