Teaching Adults

[hbyoung]

Are there any teachers here who specialize in teaching adults?

I studied classical pedagogy under a very experienced teacher and eventually collaborated with her on children's method. I had a background in early childhood education as well, which I've always incorporated in my lessons. While my studio has always been open to students of all ages, I'd say it's safe to say my local reputation is children's pedagogy and performance. However, I have started to get more adult students lately and have a lot of questions!

Does anyone have tips on the pacing of these lessons? How do you tell adult students that their expectations are unrealistic? I feel like I am often in a crossroad between what I know as an experienced teacher and what the student wants me to do because they are the "customer." How does one 'rehabilitate' adult learners who played in childhood and took a long break? I am falling back on what my mentors taught me, but my adult students seem to expect a much faster progression than they are capable of. Or am I teaching them ineffectively?

[ranjit]

Does anyone have tips on the pacing of these lessons? How do you tell adult students that their expectations are unrealistic? I feel like I am often in a crossroad between what I know as an experienced teacher and what the student wants me to do because they are the "customer." How does one 'rehabilitate' adult learners who played in childhood and took a long break? I am falling back on what my mentors taught me, but my adult students seem to expect a much faster progression than they are capable of. Or am I teaching them ineffectively?

Background: I am an adult piano student in my 20s.

On adult students expectations being unrealistic, could you give a few concrete examples?

I think that the primary issues most adult students face is that they are not "sponge-like" when it comes to motor skills. It's preferable to talk scientifically, directly teaching underlying principles, rather than hope that it comes with time imo. That is, explicitly talking about weight, weight transfer, finger strength etc and what the students are doing wrong very concretely. It usually won't just come with time.

It's common for high achieving adults to be able to understand concepts quicker than children, but it usually doesn't translate into motor skills as readily.

[determined2learn]

Ranjit is spot on. I am an adult student. Intellectually I understand a lot. Trying to get my brain and fingers to do what I want is very frustrating.


It's interesting Ranjit mentions motor skill challenges at his tender age. Imagine 40 more years!

[lostinidlewonder]

I hope hbyoung chooses to respond in their own thread this time.

Does anyone have tips on the pacing of these lessons?

From my experience I see that pacing is individual, it is not constrained by age unless you are dealing with extreme young or old ages.

How do you tell adult students that their expectations are unrealistic?

For adults it is simply unneceesary to tell them something just show it to them, this is stronger and they will make the connection themselves. I have gone through tough works my students want to learn, the majority suffer and struggle then accept they need to make a change and build up to the level they wish, but a few have really surprised me. So we have to be wary as teachers not to stop students aiming for the stars, give them that space to test themselves and guide them in that process but of course give them some work along side this all which is easy to manage.

I feel like I am often in a crossroad between what I know as an experienced teacher and what the student wants me to do because they are the "customer."

Doing what is right is not always right and some students need to experience inefficient studies so that they will fully appreciate a better way. We don't want robots for students who follow instructions but thinking individuals who become more aware about their own hands and mind at the piano. No problems to do what the customer wants as it may take you in interesting directions you didn't realize was possible, but more often than not you have to slowly guide them away from wasting too much time with inefficient work and balance it out with work which can be done with more control and consistent progress.

How does one 'rehabilitate' adult learners who played in childhood and took a long break? I am falling back on what my mentors taught me, but my adult students seem to expect a much faster progression than they are capable of. Or am I teaching them ineffectively?

Of course you cannot put an adult solely through a childs beginner book or get them to do childrens theory sheets, it is just rather berating. You can have that in lessons but to make it only exist on that looks bad to most adults. There is no problems having a piece which is really challenging for them to learn but of course along side that we have more appropriate works which will help build their skill base.

I think it is important to get some early beginner adult students to stop listening to impressive recordings of pianists, they need to insulate themselves and not distract themselves with other peoples achievements. This is to me one of the major psychological challenges of adults learning the piano I don't come across many young children who watch lots of piano videos. The ones who are totally insulated within their own studies really find the love and joy for what they are doing much easier. I teach several 70+ year olds and most of them were total beginners at the piano and creating music. None of them had expectations to be a concert pianist or play high level music, they just focused on what they loved in music and were perfectly happy to play melodies of songs they love even if it was supported by simple chords and single note melody. I find those adult students who listen to a vast amount of piano music are more problematic to work with and especially so if they are not that talented at the piano. So it may be a good idea to talk about this situation with adult students who have their heads in the clouds.

[ranjit]

Are there any teachers here who specialize in teaching adults?

I'd also appreciate it if you kept this discussion going, because I've been searching for years on answers to this topic; it is relatively understudied and I'm trying to find a method by which an adult beginner can get as good as their juvenile counterparts.

[hbyoung]

Background: I am an adult piano student in my 20s.

On adult students expectations being unrealistic, could you give a few concrete examples?

I think that the primary issues most adult students face is that they are not "sponge-like" when it comes to motor skills. It's preferable to talk scientifically, directly teaching underlying principles, rather than hope that it comes with time imo. That is, explicitly talking about weight, weight transfer, finger strength etc and what the students are doing wrong very concretely. It usually won't just come with time.

It's common for high achieving adults to be able to understand concepts quicker than children, but it usually doesn't translate into motor skills as readily.

Thank you very much for explaining this! Yes, that makes a lot of sense. By unrealistic expectations, I meant that I've had several adult beginners who want to play pieces that are far beyond their reach. I would like to teach them traditionally, about correct technique, theory, etc. but I can tell they are discouraged and bored by this. Would you want your teacher to teach foundational skills first, or teach song by song?

[hbyoung]

I'd also appreciate it if you kept this discussion going, because I've been searching for years on answers to this topic; it is relatively understudied and I'm trying to find a method by which an adult beginner can get as good as their juvenile counterparts.

I quite agree! If anyone knows of a strong adult beginner method please share!

[hbyoung]

Ranjit is spot on. I am an adult student. Intellectually I understand a lot. Trying to get my brain and fingers to do what I want is very frustrating.


It's interesting Ranjit mentions motor skill challenges at his tender age. Imagine 40 more years!

What sort of instruction from your teacher is helpful in addressing the motor skill challenges? Thank you for your input, I greatly appreciate your perspective!

[hbyoung]

I hope hbyoung chooses to respond in their own thread this time.
From my experience I see that pacing is individual, it is not constrained by age unless you are dealing with extreme young or old ages.
For adults it is simply unneceesary to tell them something just show it to them, this is stronger and they will make the connection themselves. I have gone through tough works my students want to learn, the majority suffer and struggle then accept they need to make a change and build up to the level they wish, but a few have really surprised me. So we have to be wary as teachers not to stop students aiming for the stars, give them that space to test themselves and guide them in that process but of course give them some work along side this all which is easy to manage.
Doing what is right is not always right and some students need to experience inefficient studies so that they will fully appreciate a better way. We don't want robots for students who follow instructions but thinking individuals who become more aware about their own hands and mind at the piano. No problems to do what the customer wants as it may take you in interesting directions you didn't realize was possible, but more often than not you have to slowly guide them away from wasting too much time with inefficient work and balance it out with work which can be done with more control and consistent progress.
Of course you cannot put an adult solely through a childs beginner book or get them to do childrens theory sheets, it is just rather berating. You can have that in lessons but to make it only exist on that looks bad to most adults. There is no problems having a piece which is really challenging for them to learn but of course along side that we have more appropriate works which will help build their skill base.

I think it is important to get some early beginner adult students to stop listening to impressive recordings of pianists, they need to insulate themselves and not distract themselves with other peoples achievements. This is to me one of the major psychological challenges of adults learning the piano I don't come across many young children who watch lots of piano videos. The ones who are totally insulated within their own studies really find the love and joy for what they are doing much easier. I teach several 70+ year olds and most of them were total beginners at the piano and creating music. None of them had expectations to be a concert pianist or play high level music, they just focused on what they loved in music and were perfectly happy to play melodies of songs they love even if it was supported by simple chords and single note melody. I find those adult students who listen to a vast amount of piano music are more problematic to work with and especially so if they are not that talented at the piano. So it may be a good idea to talk about this situation with adult students who have their heads in the clouds.

Thank you very much for your thoughtful response, lostinidlewonder. I hadn't considered the issue of listening to a lot of piano music, but you're right it may be contributing to the sky high expectations. Your ideas about letting students learn from inefficient ways to think critically about their playing and skill building are very interesting. I will try applying your advice!

[brogers70]

What sort of instruction from your teacher is helpful in addressing the motor skill challenges? Thank you for your input, I greatly appreciate your perspective!

As an adult student who started 20+ years ago at the age of 40, the best thing I've found for motor skill challenges are specific exercises - for example, being told to play a fast legato passage with quick finger staccato helped me learn where my fingers were clinging too much to the keys. Being shown how to drop the arm and leave the arm weight resting on a single finger helped me learn about how to use arm weight to make the sound.

Explanations of mechanics usually irritated me because my teacher was not good at distinguishing what was happening objectively and what it felt like from the inside - e.g. she'd tell me to completely relax the fingers and use only the arm to produce the sound, even though she was clearly using her fingers to some extent.  I assume that to her it felt like her fingers were totally passive, but from the outside, they certainly were not.

With demonstrated exercises it's easier to get the feel of what's going on. Another example - my teacher kept telling me to lead with the elbow. I had no idea what she meant. But doing the first Berens exercise for the left hand made it crystal clear.

[ranjit]

Thank you very much for explaining this! Yes, that makes a lot of sense. By unrealistic expectations, I meant that I've had several adult beginners who want to play pieces that are far beyond their reach. I would like to teach them traditionally, about correct technique, theory, etc. but I can tell they are discouraged and bored by this. Would you want your teacher to teach foundational skills first, or teach song by song?

As for me, I ask my teacher to teach me foundational skills. However, I'm very motivated and largely self-taught when it comes to the piano, so I don't know much about how your average student would react. I could already play by ear and learn pieces on my own before I seeked out instruction, so naturally I was looking for something very specific.

[ranjit]

What sort of instruction from your teacher is helpful in addressing the motor skill challenges? Thank you for your input, I greatly appreciate your perspective!

I think we need to be more clear about what motor skill challenges mean, here. Basically, for me, it's what falls under the umbrella term of evenness and clarity of attack. Understanding what a supported knuckle bridge means, what it means to transfer weight from finger to finger etc. However, I'm sure even children may find good piano technique hard to develop, so I'm not sure which part of the struggle is due to me being an adult and which part is simply due to the inherent difficulty of the instrument.

[lelle]

I think we need to be more clear about what motor skill challenges mean, here. Basically, for me, it's what falls under the umbrella term of evenness and clarity of attack. Understanding what a supported knuckle bridge means, what it means to transfer weight from finger to finger etc. However, I'm sure even children may find good piano technique hard to develop, so I'm not sure which part of the struggle is due to me being an adult and which part is simply due to the inherent difficulty of the instrument.

I think the problem can sometimes also be that the concepts you mention are taught as if they are self evident, when in reality, I think for many people they are not. Like, I don't personally think about anything I'd label weight transfer because it does not feel intuitive to me and so far nobody has been able to explain it in a way that makes sense.