How to play these notes in Beethoven 3rd Piano Concerto?

[warburtonj]

Please see the image linked below.  How are these notes meant to be played? Is it ok to play them simultaneously so your fingers fall in between the keys to play all four notes at the same time? Or should it be that the D notes play before the C notes?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k0glgngkto5txkv/20220114_231644.jpg?dl=0

[perfect_pitch]

the D notes play before the C notes?

Have you not come across Grace notes or Acciaccaturas before in your other repertoire?

[warburtonj]

Sorry I thought I was posting in Student's corner where I could expect a helpful response to my question.

[brogers70]

Sorry I thought I was posting in Student's corner where I could expect a helpful response to my question.

Yes, you play the D before the C. The D takes as little time as possible and happens on the beat.

[warburtonj]

Thanks.  How can you do that if your thumb plays the D?  What fingering should I be using?

[brogers70]

Thanks.  How can you do that if your thumb plays the D?  What fingering should I be using?

Depending on the size of your hand 5/1-4/1 or 5/1-5/1. In either case, you have to move your thumb quickly.

[warburtonj]

The piece is quite fast there so I'm not sure it would be possible to move my thumb fast enough.  Maybe it is meant to be played using thumb in between the C and D, rolling off the D onto the C?

[brogers70]

The piece is quite fast there so I'm not sure it would be possible to move my thumb fast enough.  Maybe it is meant to be played using thumb in between the C and D, rolling off the D onto the C?

I think you just have to experiment to see what's comfortable for you. You might also try the lower d to c with the thumb as a sort of mini-glissando, sliding on the thumbnail. Or ask your teacher for suggestions. Also, you could try watching a youtube performance at very slow speed - that can help to let you see in detail what someone is actually doing.

[dogperson]

Unless J have confused something, it is a D octave followed quickly by a c octave
I would use 1-5, 1-5 for both octaves.
There is really no space between the D and C that can be used:  play the D octave and then move your entire hand down couple of mm to play the C octave.  It can be done at lightening speed— and I’m really just an average pianist. There is no need to try to roll between the two octaves— since they are both natural keys, it would be problematic as you do need to strike the C’s

Have I misunderstood thd question/problem?

[warburtonj]

The bit I'm trying to play is at 39.10.

To me the tempo is too fast to have time to move your thumb down to play it that way.

[warburtonj]

Here is Rubinstein playing it at 35.21.

I slowed it down and it looks to me like he hits the C and D simultaneously.

[dogperson]

Rotate your wrist to the left when play the c octave— it will mean you are playing the lower c on the side of your thumb

[perfect_pitch]

Sorry I thought I was posting in Student's corner where I could expect a helpful response to my question.

Yes, and I did. You posted two options and I quoted the right answer.

the D notes play before the C notes

...as backed up by brogers:

Yes, you play the D before the C.

The way you worded the question seemed to imply that you had never come across grace notes before... as they are played in the same manner you would even if they weren't octaves.

[anacrusis]

The bit I'm trying to play is at 39.10.

To me the tempo is too fast to have time to move your thumb down to play it that way.

This is an advanced piece so unfortunately the answer sometimes simply is that some of the things you need to do are too difficult until you have developed further. You could cheat in the meantime, for example playing just the upper d with 5, and then playing the c octave with 1-4.

[warburtonj]

I've worked out that I am able to play it like Dogperson suggested by using my thumb on the lower notes to roll off the D to the C. For the top notes I use 5 and then 4 fingering. I think this must be the way professional pianists do it.  I can't see how they would have time to lift the thumb up from the D and then down onto C but I could be wrong.