Pieces with Thirds Trills

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What are some pieces that include a thirds trill?  I know of several in Chopin (Op. 22, Op. 25 No. 6, Op. 60, Op. 61) and the Scarlatti K. 450.  There are also several in the Liszt Berceuse.

Anyone know of others?  I'm sure I've seen it at least one other time in Liszt, but I can't remember where.  One of the opera fantasies, I think.  That Berceuse is gorgeous, btw.  Not a second-tier Liszt piece, just a criminally underplayed one:

[brogers70]

What are some pieces that include a thirds trill?  I know of several in Chopin (Op. 22, Op. 25 No. 6, Op. 60, Op. 61) and the Scarlatti K. 450.  There are also several in the Liszt Berceuse.

Anyone know of others?  I'm sure I've seen it at least one other time in Liszt, but I can't remember where.  One of the opera fantasies, I think.  That Berceuse is gorgeous, btw.  Not a second-tier Liszt piece, just a criminally underplayed one:

The last movement of Beethoven's Sonata Opus 2 #3 has a trill in thirds near the end.

[f flat minor]

Liszt Fantasie on Szep Illonka, Beethoven's 4th Piano concerto first movement, Scriabin Vers la Flamme, Beethoven Polonaise (I dont remember the opus number yet)

[f flat minor]

Oh, and even Chopin's Allegro de Concert

[lhb_]

There's a pretty nasty looking spot in this piece (around 2:52) where you have to sustain a melody in the RH while playing a thirds trill.

[anacrusis]

Just out of curiosity, what prompted the question? Looking to improve your thirds trills?

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Liszt Fantasie on Szep Illonka, Beethoven's 4th Piano concerto first movement, Scriabin Vers la Flamme, Beethoven Polonaise (I dont remember the opus number yet)

Oh, and even Chopin's Allegro de Concert

I found them in the Allegro de Concert and the Beethoven Concerto, but I didn't see it in the others; do you know where?  That Liszt piece has everything that's -almost- a thirds trill, though.

Vers la flamme definitely doesn't have one, I play that piece; the tremolos in that piece are even harder.  They're waaaay up in the upper register, in the LH, and the hand positions are just comically impossible.  Nobody plays them as written, they just cheat and do top+top/bottom+bottom (sounds kinky) or play them under tempo.  Or you can try like Horowitz does and switch to alternating hands in a couple spots, but that's the hardest way.  Someone else on this forum even crosses over and does one of them in the RH (the DG#-EG one, the most unplayable as written for the LH.  Just try it, in the correct register, it's sooooo weak-feeling).

Just out of curiosity, what prompted the question? Looking to improve your thirds trills?

To 'improve' them would imply that I have one in the first place   Just one of those stray bits of tech that I never picked up; ironically it's from working on the Vers la flamme that made me curious to try.

The opening one from the 25-6 is actually not bad for my particular hand shape (long narrow hands, long 4th finger), though the later one is harder.  I use one of the crossed-over fingerings, 23+15 (with thumb on C#) because nooooo way a 4-5 shake is ever going to be as good as 3-5 especially on that D#-E half-step.  I break it up a la Thalberg trill by alternating ad lib between a 'fingered' motion and a wrist-(23-5)-tremolo+(plunk the thumb in time with the wrist tremolo).  Practicing the 23-5 component with the thumb down has been good, I'm at like 80, 85% speed with pretty good voicing and articulation after only a couple days though I can tell that getting that last 15% would be a bear.  Basically getting held back by the 3-5 shake in that hand position, but otherwise pretty sure I can have it at tempo quite quick.  The other 98% of the etude, not so much haha

Meanwhile the Vers la flamme tremolos are slow and weak after playing with that piece on and off for like 2 year x_X  Seems a real crapshoot, comes down to your particular hand and wrist shape regarding which ones will be easier and which will be the notorious nightmares.

Also duhhhhhhhhh, we all forgot Petrouchka.

[perfect_pitch]

Also duhhhhhhhhh, we all forgot Petrouchka.

Hell no - I'm still TRYING to forget Petrushka. That piece was bloody hard.

[f flat minor]

And a few other pieces: the fugue from Szymanowski's third sonata (I can't tell you for sure though), and Busoni's Fantasia Contrappuntistica (it even has octave trills, to make matters worse).

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And a few other pieces: the fugue from Szymanowski's third sonata (I can't tell you for sure though), and Busoni's Fantasia Contrappuntistica (it even has octave trills, to make matters worse).

I looked at the Szymanowski, that trill is actually fourths what, gross.  I'll just take your word for it about the Busoni, I can't stand to listen to that piece.

[thalbergmad]

The Mendelssohn Rondo Cappricioso does as that used to be the stumbling block for me.

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The Mendelssohn Rondo Cappricioso does as that used to be the stumbling block for me.

I could just play the Elizondo reduction - or should I say, improvement?

EDIT: *** hahaha she includes it!

[f flat minor]

Brahms' second piano concerto has some third-trills as well...

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Found another one in Liszt's HR4.

[ahinton]

I looked at the Szymanowski, that trill is actually fourths what, gross.  I'll just take your word for it about the Busoni, I can't stand to listen to that piece.

What in particular do you dislike about it? - and do you feel more or less the same way about the two-piano version as for the solo version?

Best,

Alistair

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What in particular do you dislike about it? - and do you feel more or less the same way about the two-piano version as for the solo version?

Best,

Alistair

All the drama in that piece is really formal, I mean it has like four or five fugues right?  I just don't get the feeling down the back of my neck from something like that.  I want more textures, colors, salon effects etc., something more 'pianistic.'  There's also something sort of . . . incessant, plodding . . . about it, it just goes on and on in these big, rigid chunks without hardly ever letting up.  I also don't like the oversaturated harmonization in this piece; it just sounds noisy a lot of the time, but not in an interesting way to me.

[ahinton]

All the drama in that piece is really formal, I mean it has like four or five fugues right?  I just don't get the feeling down the back of my neck from something like that.  I want more textures, colors, salon effects etc., something more 'pianistic.'  There's also something sort of . . . incessant, plodding . . . about it, it just goes on and on in these big, rigid chunks without hardly ever letting up.  I also don't like the oversaturated harmonization in this piece; it just sounds noisy a lot of the time, but not in an interesting way to me.

OK - so be it; I do stil wonder whether that might in part be down the whatever performance/s to which you've listened...

Best,

Alistair

[frodo1]

At the very end of the Introduction: Largo of Chopin’s Variations on "Là ci darem la mano", Op. 2, there are trills in 3rds and 6ths in the right hand.

[kyle1999]

Beethoven Sonata op.2 no 3. Has some nice third trills at the end of the 4th movement. The opening of the first movement is also quick thirds but not really a trill.