The Busoni Piano Concerto

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

As stated in another post, at one point or another (probably years from now) I wish to learn this concerto. I have recently found a recording online, and can't stop listening to it. I feel that even though much of it isn't particularly beautiful (though a lot of it is), the final movement is one of the most amazing movements ever written, regardless of instrument.

What does everybody here think about this piece? I would say, from both listening and sight-reading it, that its technical difficulties surpass those of the Rach 3. The sheer length is probably enough to scare away most pianists. Plus, finding the right people to perform a piece like this must be difficult.

I also would like to ask, in your opinions, who has made the best recording of this piece?

[apion]

As stated in another post, at one point or another (probably years from now) I wish to learn this concerto. I have recently found a recording online, and can't stop listening to it. I feel that even though much of it isn't particularly beautiful (though a lot of it is), the final movement is one of the most amazing movements ever written, regardless of instrument.

What does everybody here think about this piece? I would say, from both listening and sight-reading it, that its technical difficulties surpass those of the Rach 3. The sheer length is probably enough to scare away most pianists. Plus, finding the right people to perform a piece like this must be difficult.

I also would like to ask, in your opinions, who has made the best recording of this piece?

Ludwig,  I'm at the same place you are with respect to this masterpiece.  Yes, it's great, but it is totally impractical.  Why learn a piece that will never be performed?  You're better off with Rach 3.  We're both better off with the Rach 3. 

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

Ludwig,  I'm at the same place you are with respect to this masterpiece.  Yes, it's great, but it is totally impractical.  Why learn a piece that will never be performed?  You're better off with Rach 3.  We're both better off with the Rach 3. 

Yes, I understand what you mean, but why shouldn't it be performed? Other than finding a male chorus, what other performance problems does this piece present? After all, there have been performances of pieces lasting 24 hours, and currently one lasting 639 years. Impractical? Yes. Impossible? No.

My view on life is that you only have so many years left. Every second you live is gone, and will never return. Every minute that passes, we are one minute closer to death. Whether or not there is an afterlife is irrellevant, because we don't know for sure if there is anything beyond death. Therefore, it is important that you make your life as complete as you possibly can. And for me, that will be when I perform the Busoni Piano Concerto.

If it is something you want to do, you shouldn't let the performance problems stand in your way. You may find your life much happier in the end.

[apion]

Yes, I understand what you mean, but why shouldn't it be performed? Other than finding a male chorus, what other performance problems does this piece present? After all, there have been performances of pieces lasting 24 hours, and currently one lasting 639 years. Impractical? Yes. Impossible? No.

My view on life is that you only have so many years left. Every second you live is gone, and will never return. Every minute that passes, we are one minute closer to death. Whether or not there is an afterlife is irrellevant, because we don't know for sure if there is anything beyond death. Therefore, it is important that you make your life as complete as you possibly can. And for me, that will be when I perform the Busoni Piano Concerto.

If it is something you want to do, you shouldn't let the performance problems stand in your way. You may find your life much happier in the end.

Apparently, we're both idealists.  And that's kool.

Yes, if the Busoni is something that you must master, then forge ahead.  As a friend, at this point, my primary aim is to articulate the possible "downside" to such an undertaking. 

If you feel strongly about this piece, I say "go for it."  But you must know that it is eminently and manifestly impractical viz. all of the other piano concerti in the standard repertoire.

But hey, it is worth every penny.

[frederic]

As for the recordings, John Ogdon made a fantastic recording of it (on EMI i think).  Also there's a good one done by Marc-Andre Hamelin on Hyperion. I'm not so familiar with the work but I'm sure I will listen to it more often now that you've mentioned the significance of it!

[lenny]

i hilariously have both recordings, but havent listened to them

the piece is so huge i cant believe it, can you point out some exact moments on the hamelin recording that are highlights, or specific parts that are immedietly appealing?

i want to get into it, but it takes time!

[Regulus Medtner]

I quite like Busoni's concerto, although I do believe it's rather too long for its ideas. I tend to compare it with his opera Doktor Faustus, it then makes more sense to me.

I think the orchestral introduction is very beautiful and powerful, filled with nostalgia and passion and sometimes I think that what follows isn't in the same league with it (not to mean it's not worthwhile - references to these ideas come along all the time during the concerto  - , just not as memorable to me), kind of like the first moments of Tchaikovsky's 1st concerto that you adore, yet they never come back, however beautiful the rest of it is.

The Tarantella is in my opinion an absolute masterpiece of a movement. I think it would fare well as a standalone "Konzertstuck" piece, it's so much fun!

The Finale is wonderful also, although I wouldn't claim the same about the lyrics Busoni chose to set to his music. 

Now, a great idea for a concert program would be Beethoven's Choral Fantasia AND Busoni's Concerto (maybe even Scriabin's Prometheus, but that would be too long a program...I wouldn't mind though!)...

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

You all make good points. I agree about the lyrics. When I first read them, I found them quite funny.

I have a question about the recordings: John Ogdon and Marc-Andre Hamelin are both fantastic pianists. So far, I cannot find the Ogdon, but Hamelin is available on several websites. Which one, do you feel, has better recording quality? Also, which has a better orchestra, and which one has better singers?

[Goldberg]

I haven't heard the Ogdon, but I should say the Ohlsson is highly recommended as being sort of THE recording of the piece. Christoph von Donhanyi is an excellent conductor, and the choir at the end is haunting (I never paid much attention to the lyrics, though I sort of know what they're about; I like most of the music, though). Additionally, Ohlsson plays on a Bosendorfer Imperial, which is rarely heard in recordings, and although it's perhaps not the most important part of the recording, it's still pretty neat to listen to its marginally unique sound, compared, that is, to the typical Steinway D.

Hamelin's recording, which I have heard, is rightly criticised as being of an almost muffled sound quality, with poor resonance and limited interest of dynamics; too polished, too scholarly perhaps, and not dramatic enough. Typical critiques of Hamelin, but I have to say that in the case of the Busoni concerto, I agree with them. Perhaps not a terrible recording on all accounts, but defintely get the Ohlsson before you get Hamelin...and, again, I don't know about the Ogdon but I'm sure it's wonderful too.

It'd be a great piece to learn for what it represents...I believe I read once that it was sort of Busoni's last nostalgic nod to Romanticism as it faded away, and he realised that although he couldn't bring it back, he could give it a proper farewell and look in the future to oncoming trends. It's really a cool piece, with a lot of historical significance, I'd say, but at the same time it's often not regarded as important at all. In other words, I think it's underrated and overlooked too often. But then the same could be said for most of Busoni's music...speaking of which, I *still* need to get a CD of the Doktor Faust.

[athykay]

I had never heard this piece before,  but am quite interested in Busoni because of his Bach transcriptions.  In fact, I was in a discussion on another board just the other day about "other" Busoni pieces, of which I was totally ignorant.  I just previewed the performance by Garrick Olson at Amazon.  Sounds like a really interesting piece.  I'm off to buy it. 

I'm with you Rach.  Try it if it speaks to you.  Seems to me there are plenty of orchestras these days looking to do things a little outside the box.

[Goldberg]

Also interesting is his--spelling could be wrong--Fantasia Contrapunctissica, and his Tocatta, which is very difficult, but also very interesting and underplayed (well, that goes without saying). Busoni seems to get a lot of negative reviews these days, and it could be that his music is viewed as weak because he really was in a confusing place in history, sort of like how I mentioned above. He was a semi-Lisztian interested in a Baroque and Classical revival, but at the same time was being surged forward into the radical modern revolution in the 1920's and so. Perhaps his music, to some, never really communicates a clear-cut message, and I admit he is not exactly one of my top 5 favourite composers; nevertheless, his work is fascinating and quite daring, not to mention technically challenging.

I would consider him right in line with Godowsky, whose own works are somewhat questionable, although extremely interesting for what they are, yet whose transcriptions comprise intriguing insights on technique, poly-rhythms and poly-dynamics, not to mention complex melodic lines.

[lenny]

i have the ogdon recording, as far as sounding nicer, hamelin is better

[Goldberg]

I just finished listening to the piece and wanted to bring up another topic about it, that I've considered for a while..as I just reminded myself during my listening. It's somewhat trivial, but nevertheless it may be interesting to discuss. Does anyone else think this sounds almost like "Mahler's Piano Concerto"? Not in the sense that Mahler wrote it, of course, but just in how it sounds...the orchestration, the melodies...even the third movement's beginning string intervals sound straight out of a Mahler symphony. The concerto's "floaty mysticism" feel in some places also seems to quote the mood of a Mahler symphony, and sometimes it is strikingly so.

Mind you, this doesn't trouble me at all, and indeed I admire both composers (though Mahler much more; Busoni fascinates me and amazes me at times, but Mahler touches deep in my soul, even if I don't fully understand him yet...there's just something there that humbles me and commands my emotions), but still I'm curious if anyone else has picked up on some of the "trends" found in both composers' works. I can't cite any specific examples now, and I don't really want to to be honest...heh.

[apion]

I just finished listening to the piece and wanted to bring up another topic about it, that I've considered for a while..as I just reminded myself during my listening. It's somewhat trivial, but nevertheless it may be interesting to discuss. Does anyone else think this sounds almost like "Mahler's Piano Concerto"? Not in the sense that Mahler wrote it, of course, but just in how it sounds...the orchestration, the melodies...even the third movement's beginning string intervals sound straight out of a Mahler symphony. The concerto's "floaty mysticism" feel in some places also seems to quote the mood of a Mahler symphony, and sometimes it is strikingly so.

Mind you, this doesn't trouble me at all, and indeed I admire both composers (though Mahler much more; Busoni fascinates me and amazes me at times, but Mahler touches deep in my soul, even if I don't fully understand him yet...there's just something there that humbles me and commands my emotions), but still I'm curious if anyone else has picked up on some of the "trends" found in both composers' works. I can't cite any specific examples now, and I don't really want to to be honest...heh.

Very, very interesting concept ..... but I'm not sure ...... but maybe