how much does op 10 2 help improve technique

[goethefan69420]

Besides this.

What Chopin Etudes help improve technique the most, I'm assuming 10 2 and the sixths have to help a ton, but, I'm just wondering which ones if you guys have tried them have drastically improved your technique since finishing?

[lelle]

In my opinion, no etude inherently improves your technique. You can practice Etudes with faulty technique and make your technique, if not worse, then at least more habitually bad. It's all in how the material is practiced, rather than the material in itself. Again, in my opinion.

There are some exceptions to this rule in some senses, though, and I think op 10 no 2 is in this category. I have dabbled/worked on it on and off for eight years, and in my experience it mercilessly slaughters you even if the inefficiencies in your technique are tiny. So in that sense, it can help technique by staying unplayable at tempo for as long as you are doing something wrong, thus forcing you to keep trying to figure out what you need to change in your technique. For example, I have not mastered this Etude (coincidentally, my technique is not fantastic) and have only been able to play it in tempo when my practicing has been very disciplined, focused, and careful. If not, I can't play it in tempo, and there are increasing problems with unevenness depending on how out of form I am. Or it falls apart completely.

So it is good in the sense that you can't trick yourself into thinking you are good or fake good technique when you play it, you need good technique or it's unplayable. Many of the other Etudes can still be played and sound sort of good if you don't listen carefully, even with more suboptimal technique.

[robertus]

Op 10. No.2 will improve your technique immensely. BUT- it treats this important technique of 3 4 5 chromatics in the right hand only. For this reason, I would suggest practising also the preparatory exercises for this piece in the Godowsky studies on Chopin etudes, and Godowsky's l.h. only version of this one!

I found the Godowsky preparatory exercises for 10/2 to be more beneficial than 10/2 itself.
 



 

[quantum]

In my opinion, no etude inherently improves your technique. You can practice Etudes with faulty technique and make your technique, if not worse, then at least more habitually bad. It's all in how the material is practiced, rather than the material in itself. Again, in my opinion.

Agreed.

Any piece of music can be used to improve technique.  A piece that is titled "Etude" does not have any magical superpowers.  It is the discipline and work ethic of the pianist that creates improvement in technique. 

[lelle]

Agreed.

Any piece of music can be used to improve technique.  A piece that is titled "Etude" does not have any magical superpowers.  It is the discipline and work ethic of the pianist that creates improvement in technique.

I'd add "knowledge of what you need to do" to that list. If you have been taught to stiffen your arms into wooden logs and raise your fingers high and hit the keys like little hammers, no amount discipline and work ethic on top of that foundation is going to take you very far. With a lack of knowledge you might be practicing the wrong things with extreme discipline and work ethic and not get as far as somebody who is taught exactly what they need to do.

[quantum]

I'd add "knowledge of what you need to do" to that list. If you have been taught to stiffen your arms into wooden logs and raise your fingers high and hit the keys like little hammers, no amount discipline and work ethic on top of that foundation is going to take you very far. With a lack of knowledge you might be practicing the wrong things with extreme discipline and work ethic and not get as far as somebody who is taught exactly what they need to do.

My personal opinion of work ethic is to never take anything one is taught for granted, no matter how prestigious the source or lineage of teaching.  One must test and examine every lesson and every theory, for oneself.  Only after a thorough battery of tests, reflections, and examinations should a lesson or technique be put into production in one's personal technique. 

In that regard, even if one was taught to stiffen your arms into wooden logs, a sold work ethic would catch such things in its filter and raise questions in the mind of the pianist as to the efficacy of the technique.

One can take ownership of one's technique when one expands beyond a dependency on teachers to show how it is done, and deeply think and reflect for oneself the workings of one's own technique.  Even more importantly, a pianist would do well to continually pose the question: how can one take the techniques passed on from teachers and make them even better. 

[lelle]

My personal opinion of work ethic is to never take anything one is taught for granted, no matter how prestigious the source or lineage of teaching.  One must test and examine every lesson and every theory, for oneself.  Only after a thorough battery of tests, reflections, and examinations should a lesson or technique be put into production in one's personal technique.

In that regard, even if one was taught to stiffen your arms into wooden logs, a sold work ethic would catch such things in its filter and raise questions in the mind of the pianist as to the efficacy of the technique.

One can take ownership of one's technique when one expands beyond a dependency on teachers to show how it is done, and deeply think and reflect for oneself the workings of one's own technique.  Even more importantly, a pianist would do well to continually pose the question: how can one take the techniques passed on from teachers and make them even better.

Not if that's what you're taught at 9 years old and it's all you've ever known. Source: that's how I was taught (only slightly exaggerating). I was not explicitly taught to stiffen my arms but it was the consequence of raising my fingers high and hitting the keys with force. You just can't expect a young child to apply critical thinking or realize that something is wrong. Sometimes they do anyways, but a child's instinct is to trust the adults who have them in their care. They just think they are being shown how to play the piano.

Once I became old enough I realized it was not a good idea and started seeking out different information. But let me tell you, it's not easy to relearn playing from scratch when you don't know what you are doing and have been taught wrong. It's much easier to apply discipline and work ethic if you know what the hell you are trying to work on in a disciplined manner

[robertus]

Besides this.

What Chopin Etudes help improve technique the most, I'm assuming 10 2 and the sixths have to help a ton, but, I'm just wondering which ones if you guys have tried them have drastically improved your technique since finishing?

In my experience, the most useful Chopin Etude for improving technique is 25/8, because you can play it slowly and carefully and still repeat the benefits, and it treats the hands fairly equally.

As far as Etudes which will benefit your technique, the most perfect and beneficial is Gradus and Parnassum No 8 (in the Tausig edition). Play it through 8 times in a row, fortissimo, and your fingers will soon develop fantastic strength, independence and equality.

[jamienc]

Currently revisiting Op. 10 for recital next year after about 20 years playing the set for grad school at IU. Just a few thoughts having lived with these pieces for that long and improving through many other pieces:

In my humble opinion I believe that the first two etudes (10-1 and 10-2) played in succession is the most difficult obstacle in the entire set of 24. If one can play these without accruing tension and tightness by the end of No. 2 then you can play all of them with proper technique. The first thing to reconsider in every etude is the idea of strength as a means to technical success. Relying upon strength will only fatigue your fine musculature and make everything after these two etudes really unpleasant to perform. Additionally, don’t rely upon No. 3 and 6 to regain the suppleness for the others that follow. The ONLY etude in which I would use some strength would be 25-10 and that strength would be isolated to the musculature above the elbow. With that said here’s what I found about my success with 1 and 2.

The problem with the first two is obvious in that 3-4-5 is hammered relentlessly in the right hand. With 1, I have found a couple of things that could happen easily if you aren’t paying attention. Firstly, it is extremely easy to “whip” the hand at the top of each arpeggio in an attempt to get the 1 in position for the next arpeggio going up. This has caused my 5 to be solid thus stressing that part of the hand. In the score, Chopin has placed accents on each 5, which I believe to be misleading. The turnaround at the top is often the most tense because of this. I have also noticed that whipping the hand into position for each upward arpeggio cause my thumb to be a bit premature, causing a compression of the sixteenths and a rather undesirable rhythmic wave within each beat that was uneven. To remedy this, I discovered that consciously slowing down the attack of the thumb ascending greatly resisted the urge to rush the hand through each beat. At that point my arpeggios were clean and rhythmically accurate. Practice the piece slowly and with NO PEDAL to ensure your sixteenths are even.

The arpeggios on the bottom of each chord: if you don’t move your body to retain the alignment of your arm, you will inadvertently force your position into what I call “inside-out,” which is the wrist inward and the elbow outward. Try this position with the first C-major chord and analyze what you feel. It will likely be tight. Avoid this.

Avoid lateral wrist motion to accommodate the chord width. You should not need any wrist motion left or right to “shape” any arpeggio. Your arm should remain stable and “bring” each finger to its destination. Watch any modern performance of this and you’ll see what I mean. In almost every successful performance I’ve seen of this etude, the fingers are the active mechanism, not the wrist or forearm.

Arpeggios with black notes on top: in descending motion, lift the hand slightly and attack the note from above with 5. For example, that annoying D# in mm. 8, or the incredibly difficult chord in mm. 22. Release the thumb while lifting gently and you’ll achieve more accuracy. In ascending motion, consider alternate fingerings. For example, I have NEVER been able to play mm. 31 correctly with the suggested fingering. It simply does not fit my hand so I have had to experiment with other ways. For that chord I use 2-3-1-3 all the way up and switch to 5 at the top E-flat. For the annoying A major chord in mm. 37, I use 1-3-5-2 all the way and switch to 3-2-1-2 descending. It works and sounds fluid.

When fully warmed up, I have chain smoked this piece 5 times in a row with no break and can play it without getting tense or tired.

With No. 2, the issues are the same but in a more compact position throughout. Again, if strength is your approach, you’ll never make it through. The first thing I have determined is that using 3 and 5 as much as possible helps maintain balance and clarity in the line and helps with muscle management. The first thing to experiment with on your own instrument is the difference between the feel of going up vs. down. Use 3-5 on F# through B chromatically without the 1-2 and examine the smoothness of going up and the awkwardness of going down. This is the main issue of tightness that often results if not consciously considered throughout. This etude truly is about the timing of each finger within the chromatic scale. Up is different than down and the tendency is to rush the downward scale.

This entire etude is to be played with the most attention paid to finger independence from the big knuckle down to the fingertip. Avoid any palm clutching or wrist tightness at all cost. To achieve this, practice four-note groups slowly and use only the lever at the big knuckle to activate the finger. I very much dislike the term “weight” in any piano playing, but you should feel as if the wrist and forearm are being pulled downward by gravity but are level with the keyboard. These two sensations are crucial to getting through without fatigue of any sort by the end. If you can play groups of notes (with pauses between for a moment to reflect) then you are well on your way to mastering this difficult little piece.

One more point about this etude: since the characteristics of ascending vs. descending right hand are so different, I have found appealing success by trying to match the ascending figures to the descending ones as opposed to the opposite. To explain further, I noticed that the descending figures are a bit more detached in the chromatic scale due to the awkwardness of the fingering and hand position. Rather than trying to make that direction match the fluidity of the rising scale (which I find quite easier) I simply replicate the quality of the ascending scale to that of the descending and things sound even. Similar to the first etude, I am able to play it 4 or 5 times in a row with basically no fatigue by the end. Just be sure to be fully warmed up and you should experience the same.

Sorry for the length of this post, but I hope the points here help you achieve success I have found after careful examination of what the etudes were actually asking me to do.

[ranjit]

Personally, I found the Revolutionary Etude to be effective for my left hand. But all of these need a good teacher to guide you unless you're at a very high level already.

[lostinidlewonder]

Personally I feel that if you are studying Chopin Etudes for technique acquisition you are studying the wrong music! There is so much other repertoire out there (eg Cramer or Heller Etudes) that will build you up to this level more effectively..

[lelle]

I would agree with the above^. Can Chopin Etudes help with technique acquisition? Sure. But at the same time some of them are hard enough that you'll struggle and develop bad habits unless you have a good foundation established from other Etudes.

[robertus]

Personally I feel that if you are studying Chopin Etudes for technique acquisition you are studying the wrong music! There is so much other repertoire out there (eg Cramer or Heller Etudes) that will build you up to this level more effectively..

Yes, the Chopin Etudes are better displaying technique, than developing it. The actual development of 'technique' (defined as physiological condition) is better done through things like Isidore Philip exercises.

Playing the Etudes is like performing a competitive gymnastics routine. It displays strength, flexibility and skills in a beautiful manner- but to acquire can be more effectively acquired through dull and hard exercises.

[lostinidlewonder]

The actual development of 'technique' (defined as physiological condition) is better done through things like Isidore Philip exercises.

Good exercises from him but it is "a" tool not the better way on its own. I'm not sure sure technique should be merely looked at as a physiological conditioning segregated from actual musicality too much so.

Playing the Etudes is like performing a competitive gymnastics routine. It displays strength, flexibility and skills in a beautiful manner- but to acquire can be more effectively acquired through dull and hard exercises.

One must make connection between good technique and pleasant sound. Just obsessing with unmusical technical exercises doesn't do too much favour when it comes to actually making those technical movements sound beautiful. You may be able to play notes cleverly but sound like an utter robot and mere note pusher.

[kaiserd2]

It is interesting to me and a little sad that no one else has mentioned the amazing book Mastering the Chopin Etudes by Abby Whiteside, who died around 1955.  Together with her earlier book, Indispensables of Piano Playing, it is now out of print again, but second hand copies of the two books are available and you can find them in libraries.  I have been trying to apply her ideas, mostly on my own, for more than forty years (I'm an amateur) and have recently made some breakthroughs  A couple of years ago I did this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72Nym8wnHdk about some of her basic ideas.  I plan to do another one and say a lot more in the relatively near future.  Whiteside didn't discuss Opus 10 no. 1 or 2 in either of those books, although she did discuss opus 25 no. 12 at great length and what she said there is relevant to Opus 10 no. 1 as well. 
      Whiteside's basic point was that the power to play the piano must come from the shoulder and elbow joints, mostly, and a little from the wrist, not from the fingers.  She also advocated using the upper arm to move the hand up and down the keyboard and never reaching with the fingers.  Thanks to that I have figured out how to play measure 31 of opus 10 no. 1.  Don't try to connect the A and the Eb with your fingers. Play the A with your fourth finger and lift your hand to get the fifth finger to the Eb. This may sound crazy but it works.  Your upper arm is capable of fantastic accuracy in making skips, if you will give it a chance.  Meanwhile, try to keep your forearm and hand at a 90 degree angle to the keyboard at all times.  (That's a point I didn't make in the above video--but I should have.)
          I'll stop there.

[keypeg]

About etudes in general:
When I want to acquire a habit, or fix a habit (remediation) - in fact that situation I've been in for some time - then I want to practise that set of motions.  I might invent my own exercise where the music demands that technique.  At the same time, playing regular music where the technique (set of motions) changes frequently is not helpful.  An etude ideally is like that exercise that lets you practise the thing you are focusing on, exclusively.  I've had someone tell me that he finds etudes boring because of the repetition: that, in fact, is the point for fulfilling that need.

(2) If you use an etude to acquire or fix technique, you first have to learn how to move - how to do it.  The fact of the repeated element is a danger if you're doing the wrong thing, because then you are entrenching a poor habit.   So you absolutely need to learn / know how to move, for the etude to be effective.

In that context, a few years ago I worked on a largish portion of the Chopin Opus 10 No. 1.  It was probably done below 3/4 tempo but that didn't matter.  I learned to move my arms, elbows, wrists, and to do something with timing.  I had been physically static in that regard. "Timing"-wise: you have perfectly even notes throughout, but your movements are uneven, staying in one vicinity, then scooting, and somehow that concept helped me.

I think that's the crux of it, if I managed to make sense.

[kaiserd2]

On another front--I find the best way to improve my technique is while playing things I have played for years, and can play from memory.  If the music is firmly in my gut and my fingers to can focus on what I am trying to do differently.

DK

[anacrusis]

On another front--I find the best way to improve my technique is while playing things I have played for years, and can play from memory.  If the music is firmly in my gut and my fingers to can focus on what I am trying to do differently.

DK

Good point, this is what I've found myself. Old pieces that I already know the notes of well are the best suited for working on my technique. I need to like the music to not be bored, while at the same time be able to focus fully on just my technique thanks to everything else being learned already.

[mjames]

Ignore all the answers here. Of course the etude vastly improves your technique, as any other Chopin etude does. If a piece contains something that you lack in then of course partaking in it will add something to your technique.

I don't understand prefacing your answers with "if you play it properly..", well duh? That goes for all pieces. Even easier pieces like Chopin's early nocturnes. The assumption from OP is of course if he learns it properly, will it add to his technique? And damn right it will.

My teacher, who's been teaching at the conservatory level for 15+, outright told me that if you want to vastly improve and "perfect" your dexterity the Chopin etudes are the way to go; especially with op. 10 no. 2. Don't think I've met anyone in the real world who disagrees either.

And yet online, including here, it's always the same weird answer: "Chopin etudes only teach you to play Chopin etudes." I don't know why you guys are lying to the bloke? That's clearly false. lol

I do agree that if your motivation to play the etudes is to simply improve your technique then you shouldn't go for it. Practicing them is really, really mundane and you'll easily get bored if you're not in love with the works. You can achieve more or less the desired effect from learning the etudes by learning his larger scale works, which all incorporate the material you find in these etudes anyways; plus they're actually fun to learn. Scherzi, ballades, fantasie, concerti etc.

Good luck.

[lostinidlewonder]

Ignore all the answers here.

What a snarky remark that would also include your own answers lol.

My teacher, who's been teaching at the conservatory level for 15+, outright told me that if you want to vastly improve and "perfect" your dexterity the Chopin etudes are the way to go; especially with op. 10 no. 2. Don't think I've met anyone in the real world who disagrees either.

The etudes are great but a teacher who can only suggest them as being most excellent for whatever development and not build up a student based on their personal needs with a wide range of other excellent repertoire is a teacher who is rather tunnel visioned in terms of repertoire.

There are plenty of famous musicians of an extremely high calibre who never played Chopin etudes, we only need to logically deduce that from the many famous composers who developed without Chopins music.

[jamienc]

It would be quite productive if a majority of posts from the more advanced pianists provided experienced insight to others who are still developing their approach to the repertoire. That’s what a good teacher will do. However, there are many who “teach the piece” as opposed to the more important aspect of teaching the problem solving that will help one achieve success with it and then carry over those solutions to the next piece. I believe it is all too common that works of a high musical/technical order are attempted by developing pianists for the wrong reasons. Impatience? The need to impress someone? Who knows…

There is no doubt that the Etudes are a goal for many, but I wouldn’t say they would be the best for developing technique as much as they are excellent “tests” of your present ability. I think we can all agree that you would find out quickly whether or not you have the skills to reach a successful outcome with any of them, and constant struggle would hopefully inform you that you’ve missed something along the way that adequately prepared you for the requirements. If that occurs, it is prudent to perhaps reassess your approach to the keyboard with more accessible works that can gradually develop your skills to handle the more advanced repertoire.

The point I’m trying to make is that the pieces you decide to play should be backed by a solid rationale for doing so, then the problem solving should ensue. A good teacher/mentor would do well to support or deny any request based upon demonstrated ability of the learner to that point in time. A while ago I had a late intermediate/early advanced student who wanted to play Op. 10 No. 10. Here is a brief exchange we had:
Me: why would you like to learn this piece?
Them: because it’s awesome and one of my favorite pieces by Chopin.
Me: yes I agree it’s awesome, but why would you like to learn it?
Them: (silence)
The student had no idea why they wanted to play it other than the fact that it was awesome and a favorite. We had a lengthy discussion about the tests presented on the first page alone regarding the varied articulations and the physical requirements to make them happen and it quickly became apparent that he wasn’t ready for it. The discussion ended with me telling him that it is possible, but there needed to be much more involvement with what he expected to learn from each piece along the way to reaching his goal. In other words, learn repertoire to fill your toolbox for future use instead of just being able to say you played it.

My post above was hopefully interpreted by readers as an example of the type of problem solving that occurs in my practice with the said pieces in the prompt, and I further hope that it wouldn’t be ignored for the simple fact that it explores a few of the pitfalls I consciously encountered along the way. But then again, maybe it was too discouraging and I simply should have saved the time and said “practice more” without any explanation of how to do so.

[goethefan69420]

Currently revisiting Op. 10 for recital next year after about 20 years playing the set for grad school at IU. Just a few thoughts having lived with these pieces for that long and improving through many other pieces:

In my humble opinion I believe that the first two etudes (10-1 and 10-2) played in succession is the most difficult obstacle in the entire set of 24. If one can play these without accruing tension and tightness by the end of No. 2 then you can play all of them with proper technique. The first thing to reconsider in every etude is the idea of strength as a means to technical success. Relying upon strength will only fatigue your fine musculature and make everything after these two etudes really unpleasant to perform. Additionally, don’t rely upon No. 3 and 6 to regain the suppleness for the others that follow. The ONLY etude in which I would use some strength would be 25-10 and that strength would be isolated to the musculature above the elbow. With that said here’s what I found about my success with 1 and 2.

The problem with the first two is obvious in that 3-4-5 is hammered relentlessly in the right hand. With 1, I have found a couple of things that could happen easily if you aren’t paying attention. Firstly, it is extremely easy to “whip” the hand at the top of each arpeggio in an attempt to get the 1 in position for the next arpeggio going up. This has caused my 5 to be solid thus stressing that part of the hand. In the score, Chopin has placed accents on each 5, which I believe to be misleading. The turnaround at the top is often the most tense because of this. I have also noticed that whipping the hand into position for each upward arpeggio cause my thumb to be a bit premature, causing a compression of the sixteenths and a rather undesirable rhythmic wave within each beat that was uneven. To remedy this, I discovered that consciously slowing down the attack of the thumb ascending greatly resisted the urge to rush the hand through each beat. At that point my arpeggios were clean and rhythmically accurate. Practice the piece slowly and with NO PEDAL to ensure your sixteenths are even.

The arpeggios on the bottom of each chord: if you don’t move your body to retain the alignment of your arm, you will inadvertently force your position into what I call “inside-out,” which is the wrist inward and the elbow outward. Try this position with the first C-major chord and analyze what you feel. It will likely be tight. Avoid this.

Avoid lateral wrist motion to accommodate the chord width. You should not need any wrist motion left or right to “shape” any arpeggio. Your arm should remain stable and “bring” each finger to its destination. Watch any modern performance of this and you’ll see what I mean. In almost every successful performance I’ve seen of this etude, the fingers are the active mechanism, not the wrist or forearm.

Arpeggios with black notes on top: in descending motion, lift the hand slightly and attack the note from above with 5. For example, that annoying D# in mm. 8, or the incredibly difficult chord in mm. 22. Release the thumb while lifting gently and you’ll achieve more accuracy. In ascending motion, consider alternate fingerings. For example, I have NEVER been able to play mm. 31 correctly with the suggested fingering. It simply does not fit my hand so I have had to experiment with other ways. For that chord I use 2-3-1-3 all the way up and switch to 5 at the top E-flat. For the annoying A major chord in mm. 37, I use 1-3-5-2 all the way and switch to 3-2-1-2 descending. It works and sounds fluid.

When fully warmed up, I have chain smoked this piece 5 times in a row with no break and can play it without getting tense or tired.

With No. 2, the issues are the same but in a more compact position throughout. Again, if strength is your approach, you’ll never make it through. The first thing I have determined is that using 3 and 5 as much as possible helps maintain balance and clarity in the line and helps with muscle management. The first thing to experiment with on your own instrument is the difference between the feel of going up vs. down. Use 3-5 on F# through B chromatically without the 1-2 and examine the smoothness of going up and the awkwardness of going down. This is the main issue of tightness that often results if not consciously considered throughout. This etude truly is about the timing of each finger within the chromatic scale. Up is different than down and the tendency is to rush the downward scale.

This entire etude is to be played with the most attention paid to finger independence from the big knuckle down to the fingertip. Avoid any palm clutching or wrist tightness at all cost. To achieve this, practice four-note groups slowly and use only the lever at the big knuckle to activate the finger. I very much dislike the term “weight” in any piano playing, but you should feel as if the wrist and forearm are being pulled downward by gravity but are level with the keyboard. These two sensations are crucial to getting through without fatigue of any sort by the end. If you can play groups of notes (with pauses between for a moment to reflect) then you are well on your way to mastering this difficult little piece.

One more point about this etude: since the characteristics of ascending vs. descending right hand are so different, I have found appealing success by trying to match the ascending figures to the descending ones as opposed to the opposite. To explain further, I noticed that the descending figures are a bit more detached in the chromatic scale due to the awkwardness of the fingering and hand position. Rather than trying to make that direction match the fluidity of the rising scale (which I find quite easier) I simply replicate the quality of the ascending scale to that of the descending and things sound even. Similar to the first etude, I am able to play it 4 or 5 times in a row with basically no fatigue by the end. Just be sure to be fully warmed up and you should experience the same.

Sorry for the length of this post, but I hope the points here help you achieve success I have found after careful examination of what the etudes were actually asking me to do.

Thank you for this post, it was very useful and a lot of stuff I have been doing intuitively that I was uncertain about, but after reading this I will do more.

I'm curious, when do you don't want the fingers to be the first thing that is engaged? In fast passages, I feel like it should always be fingers. Like the ending of WTC in C minor i just stay close to keys and have a good hand position the whole time, and I believe I use rotation either left right or up down, kind of a circle motio, but, i'm confused on exactly what motion i want because all fingers seems to work or mostly finger..

[goethefan69420]

Ignore all the answers here. Of course the etude vastly improves your technique, as any other Chopin etude does. If a piece contains something that you lack in then of course partaking in it will add something to your technique.

I don't understand prefacing your answers with "if you play it properly..", well duh? That goes for all pieces. Even easier pieces like Chopin's early nocturnes. The assumption from OP is of course if he learns it properly, will it add to his technique? And damn right it will.

My teacher, who's been teaching at the conservatory level for 15+, outright told me that if you want to vastly improve and "perfect" your dexterity the Chopin etudes are the way to go; especially with op. 10 no. 2. Don't think I've met anyone in the real world who disagrees either.

And yet online, including here, it's always the same weird answer: "Chopin etudes only teach you to play Chopin etudes." I don't know why you guys are lying to the bloke? That's clearly false. lol

I do agree that if your motivation to play the etudes is to simply improve your technique then you shouldn't go for it. Practicing them is really, really mundane and you'll easily get bored if you're not in love with the works. You can achieve more or less the desired effect from learning the etudes by learning his larger scale works, which all incorporate the material you find in these etudes anyways; plus they're actually fun to learn. Scherzi, ballades, fantasie, concerti etc.

Good luck.

I love the etudes, I find them actually beautiful.
My favorite works of his are mazurkas, preludes, waltzes, etudes, and maybe nocturnes or ballades last... and before I tackle a hard etude like 10 2, I think it will take time. My goal and process for this piece is similar to George Li's, he would do like one measure a day everyday for years. I think I will try this etude once I play a lot more Chopin Etudes and pieces, but, just looking into the future.

MY goal is to play the majority oft he rep, and make good performances of the works that I enjoy. Bach, Chopin, Beethoven,Scriabin, and Rachmaninoff is the composers I would like to focus on for my foundation in that order I'd say maybe. I also maybe want to do a bit of composing as well if I have time for it, I've been but mostly as a means to an end to improve my skills at piano/music theory, but, now I'm feeling like actually creating some stuff, I feel like it would be funner for composing for orchestra miniatures than for piano.

That being said though, I do think I agree with some of the recommendations, going with the works of lesser composers like Heller, Cramer, etc. can help improve my progress faster. But, I find it kind of boring, raw technique isn't my issue, I can play octaves, scales, and stuff pretty fast with no tension, it's jsut figuring out how to apply this raw dexterity to actual music, and learn stuff faster... My issues is mostly undersatnding the piece and quickly memorizing, but, definitely the chopin etudes challenge my technique, im excied to spend a lot of time with thesep ieces throughout my life.

[lelle]

Even if you don't/can't yet play them perfectly they're a lot of fun to play and can be very rewarding for your technique and musicianship IMO.

[robertus]

Ignore all the answers here.

Does that include your own?