Piano Forum

Topic: Do all the voices "matter" in Bach's fugues?  (Read 2164 times)

Offline paxxx17

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 42
Do all the voices "matter" in Bach's fugues?
on: October 03, 2023, 06:19:59 PM
I want to play Bach's C-sharp minor fugue from WTC (book I). However, I don't think it's possible for me to keep track of all five voices in my head simultaneously (three is the most I can do). Is it ok to just emphasize the three subjects and treat the other voices as kind of a background harmony, or do I need try and manage to keep mental track of all the voices all the time?
Sign up for a Piano Street membership to download this piano score.
Sign up for FREE! >>

Online brogers70

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1756
Re: Do all the voices "matter" in Bach's fugues?
Reply #1 on: October 03, 2023, 11:45:52 PM
I think it helps to (1) write out the fugue in open score, one voice to a line (2) listen to the fugue many times, focusing on a single voice each time you listen (3) listen and sing along with each individual voice, in whatever range works for you (4) listen for each voice as a line while you play. Even though this won't magically make you able to hear five voices simultaneously (at least it didn't for me), I think you will end up treating each independent line more as a clearly separate voice.

Offline quantum

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6260
Re: Do all the voices "matter" in Bach's fugues?
Reply #2 on: October 04, 2023, 03:45:40 AM
When studying a fugue to learn about its compositional techniques and artistry one focuses on different elements as compared to studying a fugue for performance. 

If you are looking to dive deep into how Bach developed all the individual voices, then you might want to break it down into more manageable sections.  Things like identifying where subject and answer entrances occur; identifying modifications to the subject like transposition, inversion, retrograde, augmentation, and diminution ; identifying where the important tonal centres are, and how the music moves from one tonal centre to the next.  If the texture becomes dense, you could reduce your workload by examining only two or three of the most important voices. 

When studying for performance, one does not have to hold all that theoretical knowledge in one's mind while one is playing.  Instead, one focuses on how best to project these elements through sound, and transform them from theoretical techniques to musical gestures.  For example, this could mean making decisions on how to phrase the music to give clarity to a subject entrance, how to balance the voices so the most important ones are in the foreground, how to give direction to the phrasing so as to support the harmonic progression of a phrase, and so on.
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline adewees

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 1
Re: Do all the voices "matter" in Bach's fugues?
Reply #3 on: October 09, 2023, 04:32:42 AM
Voice in fugues are progressive.

1. Pick the main voices 1st.
2. get the dynamics, fingerings right
3. Then add additional voicings.

It's progressive over time.
I don't use paper scores, only scanned into IPAD
easier to mark voicings.

This is how Yuchan Lim does it.
=193

Offline lelle

  • PS Gold Member
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2506
Re: Do all the voices "matter" in Bach's fugues?
Reply #4 on: October 16, 2023, 06:54:03 PM
I do think all voices matter, but that doesn't mean you're actively concentrating on 5 voices all at once (extreme example). Of course, if you are really really good, it's not unreasonable. But typically you'll be moving your focus around between the different voices as needed. Let's say you have a three voice texture with one voice playing a long note and the other voices being shorter values. You'll typically only have to follow two voices closely with your mind in that case, since the third voice is taking a break. Then when you know a new note is coming in the third voice you pay more attention to that voice temporarily. And so on. Hope that makes sense.

There will usually be one voice that is the "main melody", sometimes accompanied by another equally important voice, such as in a stretto, which will get your full attention.

As your skill as musician grows, the more you'll phrase naturally even when on autopilot. That'll also help take care of the other voices. It helps if you have studied the fugue focusing on each individual voice in turn, so you can internalize how it goes.

Offline jamienc

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
Re: Do all the voices "matter" in Bach's fugues?
Reply #5 on: October 17, 2023, 08:17:36 PM
I’d just like to say that I’m always conscious of the “note hierarchy” in music. Hopefully that’s enough of an answer.

Offline cuberdrift

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 618
Re: Do all the voices "matter" in Bach's fugues?
Reply #6 on: October 25, 2023, 02:15:32 AM
In fugues I simply find out the theme (usually the first line that appears) and then encircle all its appearances throughout the piece. This is the only thing that should really be highlighted - although the other lines should be made to sing as well on their own.

Offline pianopro181

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 60
Re: Do all the voices "matter" in Bach's fugues?
Reply #7 on: November 03, 2023, 02:08:51 AM
I want to play Bach's C-sharp minor fugue from WTC (book I). However, I don't think it's possible for me to keep track of all five voices in my head simultaneously (three is the most I can do). Is it ok to just emphasize the three subjects and treat the other voices as kind of a background harmony, or do I need try and manage to keep mental track of all the voices all the time?

Depends on what you mean by ‘matter’. They matter in the sense that they’re all vitally important and for the most part can’t be relied on with pedal to synchronize the lines but the subject and counter subject is obviously going to matter most in the sense that you emphasize them over the development counterparts. In terms of not being able to keep track you should think more in terms of long lines and sections rather than individual notes but you do also need to be fully aware of what is going on theoretically, ie harmonically, tonally and structurally like in any classical work for that matter.
For more information about this topic, click search below!

Piano Street Magazine:
Enfant Terrible or Childishly Innocent? – Prokofiev’s Complete Piano Works Now on Piano Street

In our ongoing quest to provide you with a complete library of classical piano sheet music, the works of Sergey Prokofiev have been our most recent focus. As one of the most distinctive and original musical voices from the first half of the 20th century, Prokofiev has an obvious spot on the list of top piano composers. Welcome to the intense, humorous, and lyrical universe of his complete Sonatas, Concertos, character pieces, and transcriptions! Read more
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert