Help with a teacher

[tale_schmitt]

Hi, new here. I need some views on my teacher. I don't know what a good teacher is like so I don't know if this a normal or not.

Anyway, I played for couple of years 10 years ago and restarted playing six months ago and been playing 3-4 hrs a day. I'm 47, btw, not really a kid anymore.

I've been to this teacher three times now to get my technical misgivings in order. After our last session  I told my wife how I felt I had paid to hear for an hour everything I do wrong.

Mostly the feedback was about "play slower", "too fast", "still not playing slow enough" and when I kept trying and I told her that, she said "you really aren't able to play slow, are you?"

She said ahe hasn't heard me play any longer piece and I suggested to play one for which I had brought notes for too. I got to measure five before she stopped me: too fast. Too this, too that.

I found the whole thing a bit discouraging
 and here I am thinking should I keep trying with her or change. She really made feel miserable today.

[themeandvariation]

If your pulse is unsteady, interrupted, then a slower tempo is required. Sometimes a student has practiced so much At a particular tempo, they can find it very difficult to play at a slower speed. If you are practicing 3 hours a day, you may have ground a certain speed into your muscle memory, and your ear for that matter.

Did the teacher, after seeing your difficulty, herself demonstrate the tempo she was asking you to do? This can be very helpful in this case.
It is regrettable that you didn't feel encouraged about your time with her. It would seem her idea of a slower pulse didn't gain any traction in the lesson, which it should have. If it did, you would have felt a certain balance and poise that at first may seem boring - musically, but as you keep trying it out, feels much better, as the ride isn't so bumpy.
Playing faster than a student is able to play in a poised fashion is a common pitfall.
I hope she can demonstrate - just even with a line, and have it catch on with you.
If it does, you should find the lessons more encouraging, and beneficial.
Practicing 3 hours doesn't necessarily  make the time that fruitful. It is all in the WAY you are practicing, being very mindful of an appropriate approach.

[ego0720]

It’s very difficult to comment on your situation. Playing devil’s advocate, I will say that I also prefer playing slowly. But this may need explanation. When asking to play slow, it doesn’t mean to play purposefully slower for the sake of being slow. It means you play as “fast” as your brain can react to other information (which means very slowly). Music is very hard to parallel process everything at once. So one needs to start first playing slowly and retrieve other pertinent information.  Usually I focus on figuring how the technique might work for slurs. The mistake for noobs is assuming that music is about notereading and stopping there. Because other concepts include the dynamics, articulation, ornaments, technique… on and on there is a lot to going on.  Imo we all start off doing something wrong so you don’t need to feel discouraged.  By default we will do it wrong. Just remember that a good student accepts the criticism and try and do better. If u r still not getting as the above user said ask for a demonstration and just confess that u r not clear how slow to play.

The first thing is work out the slurs and think of the -group- of notes as a magic trick. Figure out how the movements work as one.  Tension is another biggie to improve over time. Ultimately you want to listen to the overall tone of the song.. something that is holistic quality that comes from the musical brain they call it (something that can be either innate or developed). If u don’t get it that is ok. This takes time. One thing to ask yourself is if u feel u are better than u were the previous week. Everyone progresses differently and as long as you are improving that’s something to be B proud of.

Different teachers .. many different styles. But before u make the jump just see if u can communicate and work those issues out. My first question to u how did u communicate yourself. If u held it in.. I mean I can understand that. Sometimes I might just joke about it and say “I’m sorry. I don’t get it I thought I was going slow. Do u mind showing me what u mean so I understand?” It shows that u are trying and that u heard their feedback but maybe the connection aren’t matching and need to close in that gap.

[lostinidlewonder]

Rubbish teacher seek another one. A teacher should inspire you and encourage you. There are ways to point out improvement without it seeming like they are pointing out mistakes and berating you.

If you have the energy start correcting her approach highlighting all your feelings and how ineffective she is with you.

[tale_schmitt]

It's not about the thing, about playing slowly or whatever it is, that what teaching is about: I'm not there to hear compliments for an hour - but I'm not there to hear complaints and everything I do wrong for an hour either. Afterwards and for the rest of the day, I didn't feel like practicing at all.

The reason I'm playing classical is to learn to read music and get better at technique. What I really want is jazz and improvisation. I told her that these are my goals, she said she isn't the best to teach jazz which is fine, she can teach me technique.

I just think don't her methods sits well with me. It's her style and it's fine but if going to a session stresses me and I'm hesitant to play anything because of the fear of (constant) criticism, I struggle to see the point. At the end of the lesson even she notices I was starting to get locked up and couldn't play anything anymore.

I think you've made good points and those are the things I intend to pay more attention to. I think teaching should be more about the journey, not a destination as I'm not aiming to be a concert pianist at my age. I'm playing to get things fresh in life, learn new things and have fun and maybe someday play something somewhere, accompany someone, I don't know.

Gotta think about it. Last night I thought drop classical altogether and concentrate fully on blues and jazz. I don't know if that's wise or not, just something I have to think about.

[bryfarr]

I'm responding to your first and second post.  It's fairly clear you've decided to discontinue with this teacher, which I think is on spot - you simply don't like her style.  As a mature adult, you should come out of your lessons with a positive outlook.  If you can find a good jazz piano teacher, I would jump into that boat now, why wait?  You might as well start learning jazz theory as you learn pianistic mechanics.  In the meantime, simply practice your scales, arpeggios (add the min 7th eventually) and octave scales in all keys.  There are a few books out there with this written out, The Complete Hanon for one, Schmitt Preparatory Exercises for another.

[keypeg]

Tale, there are a few sides to decent teaching.  One side is, indeed, identifying mistakes and weaknesses.  In doing so, the good teacher will prioritize what should be mentioned right now, and what can wait.  Another side is finding causes and solutions.  The teacher should be asking "Why is this student playing too fast?  What is it that s/he has not learned to do?" and looking at common causes, and things that get taught at different stages that you can't assume that every previously taught student got.  Then there may be trial error, checking this and that, and working with the problem.

I can think of a number of reasons for "playing too fast".  Learning how to practice, and how to build a piece in sections and stages.  Ways of working with written music.  Wrong presuppositions of goals while working.  Never having really learned how to work with note values, and meter.  (when I got back to piano I had whole notes, half notes, quarter notes, fast notes and really really fast notes.) Trying to play all elements of a piece right away and at tempo, and what approaches to have instead.  Ability to count glitching.  That's off the top of my head.

I work remotely with my main teacher in an informal arrangement so we're not set up that well.  There was one time when my playing was off in its timing here and there in a beta version.  He asked me "Is there a problem with time, or is there a physical problem?"  There was a physical problem which prevented smooth movement.  (This as an example.)

A student who comes in having played before is in danger of the teacher saying "You are playing these kinds of pieces, therefore you are at a grade x level" - then gives music that is "grade x", oblivious that various skills that go with it may not exist.  if you can do certain things fluidly: because of a good ear, easy memorization, it can mask where you lack abilities.  A teacher has to suss these out.

[keypeg]

  If you can find a good jazz piano teacher, I would jump into that boat now, why wait?  You might as well start learning jazz theory as you learn pianistic mechanics. ....

I read through both of the OP's posts several times.  I did not see any interest in jazz mentioned.  Why are you suggesting jazz? (curious)

[bryfarr]

I read through both of the OP's posts several times.  I did not see any interest in jazz mentioned.  Why are you suggesting jazz? (curious)

He posted a second time and specifically mentions an interest in Jazz .. look again?

[keypeg]

Thx. I see it now.

[tale_schmitt]

I actually bought Jeremy Siskind's two "Fundamentals" three weeks ago and have started to go through them. With a metronome, no less, and using both that and iReal pro to track time and learn all the different chords and chord changes - to learn to work with time pressure.

I actually sent an email to my teacher last night and thanked her for the few times we've met and cancelled my next session. She asked for a reason and I told her something not too spesific, just what I think I need to be able to continue playing the piano and also keep enjoying it. Started a search for a new teacher too, someone who can teach me jazz if possible.

Recorded myself - again, after some time - playing some of the classics I've learned. Nowhere perfect, mind you, but also after listening to some of my previous recordings, there was improvement too. Clarity and certainty, maybe. Will have to pay more attention to the tempo going forward.

[ego0720]

The problem with typing these things out is that u lose the most important factor: the tone of the messages. The problem can be the teacher and the way they relayed the message. That is possible. The other problem can be internal, within the student. And there can be other problems too. Communication is two-way street and a two-step process. What matters is not what was said or what was meant, it’s what the sender -perceived- they said and what the receiver -perceived- to be said, and the perception of delivery and intent of such messages (again, interpreted by each observer). And what actually was said is not important because it ends up how the persons involved took it, which can be complicated by previous experiences in life (psychological noise). This is part of life’s drama and why humanity has experienced so much “suffering” irrespective of the magnitude of said problems. We, musicians, above all should recognize how tone or “timbre” of transcription changes by the “key signature” selected for the “piece”. Same translation but the way music can make u feel as to it’s mood can be comical, grave, or fun.. and whatever hundreds of others there are depending on the tone by which chosen to deliver it with. Imo, to assume automatically that this doesn’t work after 3x is unfair in the sense of “giving this a fair chance”. If I was there I would need to observe the interaction and make recommendations as most interpersonal relations can be improved most of the time with tweaks. Lack of awareness and miscommunication usually are the root cause.

Teacher-student is a two-person interaction and a two-person evolution. Yes the students pay as norm dictates for the service the teacher provides but, in a sense, the teacher becomes a student in figuring out for themselves to be better teachers. If this process isn’t allowed to happen how does each party evolve?  It’s an opportunity lost for both should one disengages prematurely. I don’t invalidate the posts everybody made. But I hope OP reviews carefully, thoughtfully, and honestly. I was a  manager and observed many types of management styles. And it is true that different pools of personalities mesh better. But it can be surprising how, individually, if we change internally (how we view things, how we react, and how we respond) that the results and outcomes can be drastically different and better by our own merits of self-discovery. That is for OP to ponder, and to do so with clarity of mind. Keep in mind also there is the emotional and analytical response in situations that can be conflicting — we have two brain hemispheres as manifestations of those processes (weight distribution of those vary but can be shifted depending on individual willingness). There’s a truth in each. But more important let time sink in, -then- think, before drawing a conclusion. Never decide when emotionally charged. Do so when u r emotionally stable or emotionless rather. There’s a lesson in every experience and those lessons are each ours to determine how much we can grow from. Also note that, music is hard. Like HARD. We all started wrong in the beginning and it’s ok. Nothing to dwell on except to improve when u find out. The past doesn’t exist to be changed and u can only live in the present, with all the wounds and scars.

[keypeg]

Tale, would it be possible to get your reaction to at least some of the things I wrote yesterday?  You might want to get another teacher in the future and some of these ideas may be important. Actually even if you decide to teach yourself, they'd make a difference.

[tale_schmitt]

Tale, would it be possible to get your reaction to at least some of the things I wrote yesterday?  You might want to get another teacher in the future and some of these ideas may be important. Actually even if you decide to teach yourself, they'd make a difference.

Oh sorry, I thought I did. So yes, I contacted one teacher already yesterday but she recommended asking someone else first but I haven't gotten answer from there.

Basically the problem with this teacher - who's not my teacher anymore - was that she got with the way the continued the critique without positive feedback she got me to lockup which she noticed too. I couldn't play anything for the last ten minutes or so and didn't feel like practicing at home. I already was nervous playing front of someone and after that, knowing myself, it would've been even more difficult. And I don't have time nor interest to go through all that trouble, there are other teachers out there.

[ranjit]

I actually bought Jeremy Siskind's two "Fundamentals" three weeks ago and have started to go through them. With a metronome, no less, and using both that and iReal pro to track time and learn all the different chords and chord changes - to learn to work with time pressure.

I actually sent an email to my teacher last night and thanked her for the few times we've met and cancelled my next session. She asked for a reason and I told her something not too spesific, just what I think I need to be able to continue playing the piano and also keep enjoying it. Started a search for a new teacher too, someone who can teach me jazz if possible.

Recorded myself - again, after some time - playing some of the classics I've learned. Nowhere perfect, mind you, but also after listening to some of my previous recordings, there was improvement too. Clarity and certainty, maybe. Will have to pay more attention to the tempo going forward.

Johnny May looks like a fun but very competent online teacher. I haven't tried a subscription but I like his material.