Video: Chopin Etude Op. 10 No. 4

[blastzit]

Here is my playing:

I recently applied to a music festival with this but didn’t get in, so any advice/criticism on my playing would be appreciated.

[perfect_pitch]

What can anyone say... this is an impressively clean playing with very little criticism needed. Your dynamic shading is very good and LH semiquaver control is very dexterous considering the speed. A couple of slightly slightly splotchy RH chords at 0:51 (I think - it's been years since I've seen the music).
I'd just crescendo a little more from 1:06 to 1:12 to build the intensity before the A theme returns.

[lostinidlewonder]

More than likely it is the repertoire choice rather than how you played. Perhaps the work does not fit well with the festival program? It would have been nice to get at least some feedback rather than just a "no".

[pianistavt]

What festival?
What pieces did those who got in submit?
I agree that the repertoire choice may have had a big influence on getting turned down.
Another factor may be your playing - where technically good, I got no feeling that you were saying something personally with this performance.  It sounded like your were running through an etude, almost a warm-up, except perhaps for the coda.

[frodo4]

I disagree that this is impressively clean playing.  Slow it down a little and this should help you clean it up and give you a better shot at good musicality.  You need to be pretty close to world class playing level to play it effectively at your "bat out of hell" tempo.  You are not at that level.

[blastzit]

More than likely it is the repertoire choice rather than how you played. Perhaps the work does not fit well with the festival program? It would have been nice to get at least some feedback rather than just a "no".

That’s true - this is just the audition though (which is 15 minutes long, I played Scriabin Sonata No. 4 for the other piece), but we do have to submit a list of repertoire and I included both of these pieces, so maybe my choices aren’t the best. Sadly they said they have too many applicants so won’t be able to give any feedback. 

[blastzit]

What festival?
What pieces did those who got in submit?
I agree that the repertoire choice may have had a big influence on getting turned down.
Another factor may be your playing - where technically very good, I got no feeling that you were saying something personally with this performance.  It sounded like your were playing an etude.

It’s the Oxford Piano Festival. I don’t think I can see what other people chose for the audition, but thank you so much for the advice! I feel like I always struggled with putting emotions into my playing though, would you have any tips on that?

[perfect_pitch]

I disagree that this is impressively clean playing.  Slow it down a little and this should help you clean it up and give you a better shot at good musicality.  You need to be pretty close to world class playing level to play it effectively at your "bat out of hell" tempo.  You are not at that level.

I think someones being a little harsh? The man clearly has chops, and the recording is definitely of a higher standard than we usually get in the Audition room... plus I don't think this is 'bat out of hell' tempo. I've seen people attempt to play a lot faster.

He's not at that level? Really...   🤨

[frodo4]

I think someones being a little harsh? The man clearly has chops, and the recording is definitely of a higher standard than we usually get in the Audition room... plus I don't think this is 'bat out of hell' tempo. I've seen people attempt to play a lot faster.

He's not at that level? Really...   🤨

Yes - really IMO.  If he were performing this way at round 1 of the Chopin international competition in Warsaw, I believe the proverbial Vaudeville hook would come out after about 20 seconds - even though he is hitting all the notes with a steady beat - which is 50% of the battle.

He needs to slow down.  Maybe play it in 2:12 (2 min 12 sec) instead of 2:00.  Some people think that if they play fast enough, people will not notice all the imperfections if they hit all the notes with a steady beat.  Maybe this fools some, but not those with fine tuned ears.

I agree he has skill and talent.  I would love for him to slow this down a little and work on cleaning it up and work on musicality.  This is over his head IMO at this tempo and so he will not be able to achieve the desired polish and musicality at this time - unless he slows down a little.  This assumes that he has the ability to play with polish.  I would like to hear other works.  How about Bach English suite No 1 in A major - or something else?

[lostinidlewonder]

That’s true - this is just the audition though (which is 15 minutes long, I played Scriabin Sonata No. 4 for the other piece), but we do have to submit a list of repertoire and I included both of these pieces, so maybe my choices aren’t the best. Sadly they said they have too many applicants so won’t be able to give any feedback. 

They should be giving feedback it really doesn't take much to do that! They have to have a reason for their decision in any case, they can at least share that, I think they might not if their requirements are somewhat superficial eg your age, sex, what you look like etc.

I had a quick browse of the festival you applied for, it does look highly regimented. Not a festival where a wider range of pianists from community come together to share the music. So likely they have specific things they are looking for which doesn't put a huge emphasis on how you play but rather how you fit in with the image they are trying to present for the year. They indeed might already have more than enough representation for the composers you submitted and it has nothing to do with the way you play. Though I'd think they should request certain repertoire if that is the case, however not all event organisers have that kind of logic!

[thorn]

I agree with the positive reviews of your playing and that it's more about behind the scenes stuff.

I'm also in the UK and we're a small country so the piano scene reflects that- at the advanced amateur level everyone with the right teacher/the money to go to Chets summer school has crossed paths with conservatoire profs/concert pianists based in the UK so it can be pretty nepotistic. These professionals all give masterclasses at the Oxford festival so I imagine it's 100% who you know rather than what you know. (I'm sure people in the EU/US etc could say the same but as they're bigger countries I can't imagine their piano scenes being quite as Downton Abbey village parish-esque as the UK one... )

[frodo4]

I'd like to hear Scriabin Sonata No. 4 please.

this is just the audition though (which is 15 minutes long, I played Scriabin Sonata No. 4 for the other piece),

Also, Scriabin is 8 minutes and Chopin is 2 minutes.  8 + 2 = 10 minutes.  What did you play for the other 5 minutes if I may ask?  Let's hear that also if you can provide that.. You provided us with only 2/15 = 13% of your audition. 

[lostinidlewonder]

I'd like to hear Scriabin Sonata No. 4 please.

Also, Scriabin is 8 minutes and Chopin is 2 minutes.  8 + 2 = 10 minutes.  What did you play for the other 5 minutes if I may ask?  Let's hear that also if you can provide that.. You provided us with only 2/15 = 13% of your audition.

He asks for some pointers on what you are critiquing and so far you say slow down and play more musically. Why don't you give some constructive critique quoting specific bars then it may encourage more sharing and provide discussion for others to consider, so far all you have given is rather superficial opinion.

fwiw I don't think we should be considering playing in a festival requiring one to play at a standard akin to being a contender of a major international piano competition.

[blastzit]

He needs to slow down.  Maybe play it in 2:12 (2 min 12 sec) instead of 2:00.  Some people think that if they play fast enough, people will not notice all the imperfections if they hit all the notes with a steady beat.  Maybe this fools some, but not those with fine tuned ears.

Thank you for the advice of playing it slower, I know that this Chopin etude isn't "world-class level" even when I was recording the video - there are still unclean sections and it isn't as polished as I wanted it to be. But when I recorded it I didn't have much time to prepare before the deadline, so I thought it might be good enough for the masterclass, after all I wasn't aiming to join the Chopin competition. I guess that's not true and my playing is just not good enough yet!

I'd like to hear Scriabin Sonata No. 4 please.

Also, Scriabin is 8 minutes and Chopin is 2 minutes.  8 + 2 = 10 minutes.  What did you play for the other 5 minutes if I may ask?  Let's hear that also if you can provide that.. You provided us with only 2/15 = 13% of your audition.

Those are the only two pieces I played, since they only required two pieces for the audition (so maybe Chopin + Scriabin is a bad idea since the time limit is 15 minutes?). Unfortunately I don't think they even watched the Scriabin before making the decision (I uploaded the videos on YouTube so I can see the views etc.), but I do think that I did much worse for the Scriabin than the Chopin so I didn't expect I would get in anyway. It's just that they seem to have decided only based on the Chopin, so I uploaded the Chopin here looking for advice. I wasn't trying to complain or figure out why I didn't get in the festival, if that's why you wanted to hear the Scriabin.

[frodo4]

He asks for some pointers on what you are critiquing and so far you say slow down and play more musically. Why don't you give some constructive critique quoting specific bars then it may encourage more sharing and provide discussion for others to consider, so far all you have given is rather superficial opinion.

fwiw I don't think we should be considering playing in a festival requiring one to play at a standard akin to being a contender of a major international piano competition.

I will later today when I get back from doing stuff.  I'm leaving now.

[brogers70]

It is impressive, but you asked for suggestions for improvement. Some have said there was not much musicality of expression. I do agree, so here are some examples. Say, in measures 13-16, in the RH you have a melody in quarter notes, but there's not much shaping going on. Overall, there's a crescendo across the four bars, but there should also be some dynamic variation within each bar, so that there are surges that reach progressively higher peaks, rather than just an overall crescendo. Likewise in measures 9-10, there's an overall crescendo, but there should be smaller scale shaping of the 16ths. These are just two examples, but I think the problem is present throughout the piece. It's the little shaping of phrases that is lacking - if you have four staccato quarter note chords, don't play them all at the same volume, make them go somewhere. That's the sort of thing that will make it feel less like a machine gun of fast 16th notes. One way to find out how you want to shape things is to play super slow and pretend you are phrasing a lyrical melody in a slow movement, then try to keep that shaping at the real tempo.

None of this takes away from the achievement of managing all those notes accurately at that tempo. It's truly impressive.

[frodo4]

The OP appears to be looking to understand why he was not accepted for participation in master classes at the Oxford Piano Festival.  Apparently, the festival said they have too many applicants and therefore won’t be able to give reasons for not being accepted.

In order to rule out that the playing ability of the OP was not the cause of being rejected, we would need to hear the FULL audition performance of the OP, not just a selected 2-minute excerpt.  After a quick google search, the audition requirements are: “You will submit a short biography and video links of yourself playing 10–15 minutes of standard repertoire.”  The OP appears to have met this requirement.

After being asked in this thread to hear the rest of his audition (i.e., Scriabin sonata # 4), the OP says:
“Unfortunately I don't think they even watched the Scriabin before making the decision (I uploaded the videos on YouTube so I can see the views etc.), but I do think that I did much worse for the Scriabin than the Chopin so I didn't expect I would get in anyway. It's just that they seem to have decided only based on the Chopin, so I uploaded the Chopin here looking for advice. I wasn't trying to complain or figure out why I didn't get in the festival, if that's why you wanted to hear the Scriabin.”

My questions – Did the Scriabin receive 0 views?  Are we sure that they did not listen to it?  I would be very surprised if they did not listen to at least some portions of it.

Then I’m having trouble understanding the following from the OP: “I wasn't trying to … figure out why I didn't get in the festival, if that's why you wanted to hear the Scriabin.”  But this is the purpose of your thread – to figure out why you were not accepted???

I would still like to hear the Scriabin performance.  At over 8 minutes in length, this is more than 80% of the 10-minute audition.  I would assume that the festival heard this and this factored in their decision.
______________________________________________________________________________
After a break – new thoughts:

So, I just spent 5 minutes on youtube listening to the first student performance at the Kirill Gerstein master class of the Oxford Piano Festival 2023:  Sonja Kowollik playing the great Schumann piano sonata No. 2 Op 22.  I realize this is a very small sample that I listened to – part of 1 piece of 1 participant – but she was good!!  I’m sorry, but I feel that your Chopin op. 10 no 4 is not up to standard for this festival.

Reasons AT THIS TIME: You are lacking control and lacking clean and crisp articulation.  You also lacking ease of execution that will allow for musicality to come out.  I would recommend next time you get a better piano with better acoustics and better recording equipment for your audition – this will help.  You should also see if you can find a great piano coach to help.  Good luck to you in the future and keep working. 

[frodo4]

I’m listening to 2 others in the Gerstein master class.  One is playing Schuber impromptu no 1, D899 – a pretty easy piece.  It is being played well though by the student.

None of us are sure of the reason you were not picked.  Some of us gave our different opinions.  You admit that the Chopin needs to be cleaned up a little.  I’m guessing the judges would much rather see easier pieces played very well with great musicality than an extremely virtuosic piece played very fast but with lack of precision and musicality.  OOPS - I’m listening to the D899 as I type and noticed a small memory problem by the student.  You may be impressing many here with the Chopin, but you won’t win over the judges IMO.  They may even be offended that you are attempting this at the speed you chose considering your playing ability.  Again, I’m just speculating.

You admitted that you were not ready for this festival.  You basically just had the Chopin and the Scriabin was an afterthought.  Next year you may be better off picking easier pieces and playing them to perfection.  But do continue with the Chopin.  However, do not think you are going to dazzle the judges and get accepted with this one 2-minute piece.  The full 10-15 minutes must all be good.  Again – best of luck and sorry if I am rambling on with my thoughts.  Also, DO listen to what others are saying here besides me!  We are all just trying to help. 

[blastzit]

Thank you all so much for the valuable reply! I know the festival has a very high standard and my playing is not up to that level yet, so I will practice and try again next year.

[pianistavt]

Thank you all so much for the valuable reply! I know the festival has a very high standard and my playing is not up to that level yet, so I will practice and try again next year.

That's the spirit!
Also, I would underscore what Thorn said - - it's very likely largely about who you know, whether you're a local or not.  But I'm not analyzing the festival history, etc., so that's a guess.

[pianistavt]

I feel like I always struggled with putting emotions into my playing though, would you have any tips on that?

Yes, I can discuss that with you, I would ask you a bunch of questions about your path in music, so you may want to direct message me.  Others have pointed out specifics about phrasing and dynamics, and it's likely that this etude was a rush job.  I've known pianists who were achievement oriented and whose playing was uninspired.  If your Scriabin was more deeply felt, perhaps you could post it.  And feel free to look at my videos in Auditions and Improvisations to decide whether I might know what I'm talking about.

[frodo4]

That's the spirit!
Also, I would underscore what Thorn said - - it's very likely largely about who you know, whether you're a local or not.  But I'm not analyzing the festival history, etc., so that's a guess.

I agree.  That's the spirit!

Points to keep in mind as you have your discussion:

1) "it's very likely largely about who you know, whether you're a local or not."  We hear a lot about conspiracy theorists these days.  The election was rigged.  Contests are all based on politics. To me, the judges are fair and are looking for polished acts.  Could it be he is not quite polished enough at this time?

2) If it is all about who you know and if you are local - what's the point in trying out again next year?  I look forward to your response on this one.

[frodo4]

Just want to make sure the OP is aware of Oxford Piano Festival age requirement for participation:

For 2024: "We welcome applications from advanced piano students (of at least Diploma standard) of all nationalities born on or after 27 July 1997."

I assume for 2025: born on or after 27 July 1998