Out Pianists on the Forum

[chopiabin]

I know there are at least a few people on the forum who are openly gay/ lesbian. This could serve as a coming out place/ discussion thread. NO BIGOTS ALLOWED!

[lenny]

im not gay, but i think that some ignorant people's opinions of people that DO come out...will change.

itll take courage..

[chopiabin]

Yes, I agree. I hope people will feel like they can be fully accepted here, despite the discouraging comments of others.

I've been getting involved with a lot of the groups at my school, and it just feels nice to be fully accepted. I came out to a few friends in my junior year but I told pretty much everyone else my senior year. And I recently came out on facebook!!

[lenny]

ah so you are gay, you didnt actually say it, but now it makes sense 

[Floristan]

Good for you, Chopiabin!  I've been out forever...came out bigtime during the Vietnam war as I was about to be drafted.  Most of my gay friends were getting these "1Y" deferrments from the Draft Board, which meant, if we run out of straight guys or need people to sing, dance, and type, we'll call you.  Me, I got a "4F," which means never in a million years would they want me to serve.  My local draft board was in rural Illinois, so they had never encountered an out gay person.  They must have freaked.  I didn't even have to go for a physical.

Being closeted is just such a waste -- to publically cover up and deny a huge part of your life.  Our acceptance as human beings, just like everyone else, has been slow to occur, but progress has been steady over the past 30 years.  Increasingly young people could care less if someone is gay or straight (unless of course they're interested in dating them).  It's so not an issue for many young people.  That's a really hopeful sign.

We're pianists.  It's an art and craft that has always attracted a fair number of gays.  We're always attracted to activities that let us perform as individuals (piano, gymnastics, ice skating, etc.) rather than in a team environment, partly so we don't have to deal with potential rejection.  The piano was a refuge from a hostile world when I was young.  It's now a completely fulfilling part of my expressive life.

I know many very nice straight people and love them all, but I honestly wouldn't trade places with them.  I'm fine being gay.  It's a small part of who I am, but still an important part of me, so I wouldn't give it up for anything.

[ChristmasCarol]

Floristan,
How lovely to hear your attitude about loving being gay.  Refreshing.  I'm not gay, but I like this thread of just having everyone be who they are.  Delightful.  More.  More.

[chopiabin]

Anyone else? Or is this thread dying?

[Floristan]

Anyone else? Or is this thread dying?

I can't be the only one with a story to tell...  

[chopinisque]

I know this is a really daft question, but, how do you know if you're gay?

[Floristan]

I know this is a really daft question, but, how do you know if you're gay?

It has to do with sexual and emotional desire.  If your sexual and emotional desires, fantasies, thoughts, and, ultimately, behavior are about people who are the same sex as you, you're gay.  If all that is focused on the opposite sex, you're straight.  If you have sexual and emotional feelings, fantasies, etc. about both sexes, you're bisexual.

I say "ultimately behavior" because a lot of people, especially when first recognizing their sexual and emotional desires, have fantasies long before they act on them.  Given that most American and European societies positively reward heterosexuality and negatively reward homosexuality (i.e., dismiss, minimize, marginalize, demean, reject, ridicule, stigmatize, demonize -- the whole gamut of negative reinforcement) -- well, it's no surprise that a lot of gay people try really hard when young to make themselves straight.

In my case, I dated girls throughout high school and participated in the usual adolescent sexual play (everything but intercourse), and eventually I had sex including intercourse with several women.  About the same time I began having sexual relations with men.  For me the comparison of the two experiences was a no-brainer.  Men excited me sexually and emotionally in a way that women just didn't.  And it wasn't just that the sex was better and seemed somehow right to me, it was also that I felt an emotional bond with men that was qualitatively different than what I felt for women.  I loved women, or so I thought at the time, but I felt very passionate love for men. 

Some people's emotional and sexual lives are fluid throughout their entire lives.  I had a good friend who was attracted to both sexes.  In the 20 years I knew him, he had a committed, sexual relationship with a woman followed by a committed, sexual relationship with a man.  Sequential bisexuality, I guess you'd call that.

Another story, I had a young professor in grad school who fell in love with me -- really deeply, wildly in love.  I wasn't so in love with him (more in like than love), but I felt bad for him that he was struggling so hard with his emotions.  Problem was he was straight.  He was so determined to make our relationship whole that he tried to have sexual relations with me (and I let it happen because he wanted so much to prove something to himself), but he just couldn't do it.  So it seems that emotions and sexuality are very complicated for a lot of us.

Really anything is possible, and only you can know yourself... if you're willing and open to the possibilities.  But believe me, if it's right, you'll know it!  Hope this helps!  

[chopiabin]

I think its also important to realize that there is a lot of confusion (sexual and otherwise) when you're young - there is no set time by which you must declare yourself "this" or "that".

I also think its interesting that there are a lot more bisexual women than there are pure lesbians. Almost every girl I know admits to being sexually attracted not only to boys, but also to other girls, though not all of them would act on their impulses or feel they could actually be in a relationship with a girl. I think this shows some of the differences between the sexes: most men's sexuality seems to be a lot more black and white than does women's: there are many bisexual men, but there are far fewer than there are men who identify solely as "gay".

Anyway, just interesting thoughts - I hope people aren't scared to post here - this place is pretty anonymous.....STRAIGHT PEOPLE CAN POST TOO!!!!

[Nightscape]

Another out pianist here on the forums.  Unfortunately, I'm stuck here in the heartland bible belt of the USA, where folks can be... well... less than tolerant of homosexuality.  However, despite this, I have yet to encounter someone who was hostile towards me because of my sexuality (although, apparently people do discuss me unpleasantly behind my back).

On a side note, I'm just sitting here eating grapes and listening to Barber's Toccata Festiva, op. 36.   But it's nice to know that there are other gay people on this forum, and plenty of acceptance and intelligence abounds.

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

I'm not gay, but I respect any gay person as I would a straight person. I, being straight, do not completely understand homosexuality, since I have never experienced sexual desires toward men, however I am always open to learning about different people, whether it be about their race, religion, or sexual orientation. I do know several gays, and have several gay friends, and truthfully, I don't see any difference between them and anyone else. It seems that much of the time, gay men are much easier to talk to than straight men.

For those of you who aren't ashamed of who you are, I say, good for you! I believe that nobody has the right to hide themselves from others, and everybody should be proud of who they are.

[chopiabin]

I obviously agree with you 100% and appreciate your comments. I've actually been thinking a lot lately on how humans in general devalue themselves and their own desires - we often hold ourselves back or view our true selves as something to be ashamed of, even though it is the morality of self-denial that actually tortures our souls more than anything. Yes, I've been reading a good bit of Nietzsche lately!!

[Floristan]

Nietzsche, good!!!   

[SteinwayTony]

I love how every straight person who posts in this thread has to declare "I'm not gay, but..."




(Oh, by the way, I'm not gay.)

[willcowskitz]

Shame is such an absurd feeling.

Shame means we feel we've done something that could grant people around us power over us.

If I do something that is not commonly accepted, I am ("should" be) ashamed, because people around me, in the society that I'm also part of, have the power of categorizing and labelling me and treating me accordingly. They have the power of number of people that share the same views, behind them, and the more there are people (in same community), more dangerous it is to be labelled and more likely it is that you will. Intelligence is not a guarantee of being accepted. People are so insecure and afraid of their surrounding "fellows", that this fear will surpass all rational conclusions that they might come to. Shame means you're living yourself through your surroundings and have very little awareness of what the world looks like when not looked through a mere human's eyes, and hence don't know answers for "why" you're doing what you're doing, which you're ashamed of, or can't expand the concept to the level of shared consciousness where people around you could see it too.

As long as there are powerhungry people (who lack the talent of leadership) and ridiculously large communities (society is really a joke of a community, but...) that create an intangible web of prevention-through-fear, there will be irrational, unnecessary feelings of shame.

[chopiabin]

I love how every straight person who posts in this thread has to declare "I'm not gay, but..."

(In a redneck accent) - All I got to say is that I aint no queer, and the bible hates all them darn fairies!!!!

[chopinisque]

A hypothetical question: What if you aren't attracted to either sex?

[chopiabin]

Is it a lack of attraction or a lack of sexual desire? Those are two different things. Also, its pretty normal not to display any sex drive until you're older - I have plenty of female friends who felt no desire until they were in their mid to late teens.

I also recently read an article about people that call themselves "asexuals" - they have never had any desire or attraction to either sex. If you feel that that describes you, you should look into it - I'm pretty sure they have a website that you could find through a google search.

[pianoboi666]

How the heck do you go about meeting other gays/ bis.  I am a very very very shy person and I need all the help and advice I can get.

[chopiabin]

You need to be open and comfortable with yourself if you wish to have a good relationship - being out also hepls you meet other people who are gay/bi.

[astroboy]

I'm another 'out' pianist. I'm studying at a performing arts institute, so there are classical musicians, jazz and contemporary musicians, dancers, actors, music theatre people... and the atmosphere is great.. the good thing about having so much 'art' in the same place is that there are quite a number of gay people here.. i mean, they don't out number straight people, but there is still quite a few.. and it's just great that you can be yourself, guys holding hands with each other, girls holding hands, i mean, i wouldn't be caught dead doing that sorta thing in public (due to lots of homophobes) but at uni it is sorta a safehaven because its just so comfortable there.

[ted]

Homosexual relationships have recently been officially recognized by the government here (New Zealand) as having the same legal binding as heterosexual ones. Unfortunately bias still exists, and a scurrilous outfit calling themselves the Destiny Church take it upon themselves to parade about the streets in Nazi style dress insulting homosexual people. There was a march today, as a matter of fact. It was purportedly to promote family values but in fact it was a blatant attack on gay people. The rational people, including many gays, assembled a counter-protest of their own in a different area, presumably to avoid fisticuffs.

I am strongly heterosexual, at least until testosterone levels began to slip in my fifties, (I’m still heterosexual but sex in general has diminished importance) but to me the whole thing has always been a non-event. I couldn’t care less what somebody thinks or does sexually, provided it involves mutual agreement, mature people and kindness. Yet it is a terrible thing to see when parents reject a child because of sexual orientation. I think this must be a horribly cruel blow for a young person, and sadly it still goes on.

[chopiabin]

Thanks Ted, I think your attitude is the one that we all wish were more common. The Destiny Church thing is really scary - here we have Sam Phelps, who, after the death of a gay person, often protests their funerals with signs saying that the deceased is burning in hell, etc. If you see the movie The Laramie Project, they do a good job of portraying his hatefulness.

[lostinidlewonder]

Even though I'm against tagging people as this or that, I'll put my hand up and say im an "Out" pianist. I never made a choice to be gay, I knew when I was at 5, who would want to be a part of a minority group at that age? Who even has a concept of sex at that age? I don't think i had a great insight into sex at that age, but I knew I was gay even though I didnt have any idea of sex. So that to me meant that it was a much deeper emotion than just sexual/physical attraction, much more instinctive.

Many argue it is this or that which causes people to be gay. Sexual trauma, brought up with a "smother mother", index finger as long as ring(to do with excessive male hormones when the foetus is developing) whatever. I think they have some basis but do not point in a strong enough direction to give answers. I was brought up with 2 other brothers, neither who are gay and I love my parents a lot. I had an incredibly happy childhood, I was never abused, nothing. So I can't blame my environment or how I was nurtured for my gay orientation.

I dont believe in Bisexuals, not 50/50 prefference that is just crazy. You must have a prefference for one or the other. If not then i think there is something up with how you percieve physical love. Many bi sexuals want to deny their gay emotion and balance it by also practicing heterosexuality, so then they argue they are bisexual not gay. I have met many who say they are bisexual but have a prefference for a guy or girl, that I can believe, but I still tell them to stop double dipping lol.

Oh and im not a poof(girly acting gay) not that i have anything against it, but i like men because they are men, not because they are a girl in a mans body. Im fully straight acting you wouldn't be able to tell that i was gay. Although being a muso/pianist, people usually expect you to be when you start talking all arty and musically lol.

And to christians who condem gays, I laugh at them beacuse they dont understand what the bible teaches, that we all are sinner and cannot help but sin. We are all going to hell if we hope we will be saved through our good deeds and keeping the law because we are just so imperfect we are always going to fail and dissapoint god. We are saved through Jesus(hope for renewal/turning new leaf in your life) upholding the law and repecting it, so even if i was gay and go against the christian doctrine, that constant sin keeps me closer to god because i know it isnt what he want. Romans7:14 the confict of man, Romans 3:21 How god puts us right with him.
Also Romans 3:20:For no one is put right in God's sight by doing what the Law requires, what the Law does is to make man know that he has sinned.

 What a paradox religion can be, even though it says dont do this, you do it, but you hold onto the word because you know it is your nature to go against the word. Who weights one sin over the other? God, not you, and we can't start to guess how god uses his scales of judgement (even though many people do). Those people who dare speak for god will be dealt with.

[darkrev]

I'm a university student, and even though I'm not out at school, I'd never hesitate to defend someone who's being ridiculed for being gay.  I deeply respect everyone who is strong and brave enough to come out to the world, cuz that makes you so vulnerable, especially to all those hard-core christians who insist on believing everything the bible says, no matter how absurd it sounds.  There's nothing unnatural about being gay, what's unnatural is when people try and oppress the way we were born.  Much love to everyone on this thread 

[Christopher]

Hmm, I just recently got on these boards, but this has always been a topic of choice for pianists to post about.  First of all, I'm a piano performance major at UNT, I've got quite a few gay friends here, and I'm completely fine with it.  How can any pianist not be?  We're generally more sincere and understanding people than most.  But, I do have a couple questions, because I honestly don't know and don't understand the gay lifestyle.  Are gays ever monogomous? I've just never heard of that. The only hitch in religious views I really have with it is that too.  Of course, straight people usually aren't, but I don't approve of that either.  I'm not myself, but I also really regret it.   Hmm, I really don't mean to offend if I am, just wondering if any of you feel that's a sin as well.. I think it's the worst I've ever commited.

[janice]

I'm sorry, but I didn't understand a word you said!  But it's way after midnight, too! 

[Nightscape]

Hmm, I just recently got on these boards, but this has always been a topic of choice for pianists to post about.  First of all, I'm a piano performance major at UNT, I've got quite a few gay friends here, and I'm completely fine with it.  How can any pianist not be?  We're generally more sincere and understanding people than most.  But, I do have a couple questions, because I honestly don't know and don't understand the gay lifestyle.  Are gays ever monogomous? I've just never heard of that. The only hitch in religious views I really have with it is that too.  Of course, straight people usually aren't, but I don't approve of that either.  I'm not myself, but I also really regret it.   Hmm, I really don't mean to offend if I am, just wondering if any of you feel that's a sin as well.. I think it's the worst I've ever commited.

I suppose that such a non-monogamous "gay lifestyle" does exist and certainly becomes the stereotype for gay men.  However, one does not have to practice this "gay lifestyle" to be homosexual.  I'm gay, but I know that I would be overwhelmed with guilt if I ever stepped beyond the confines of a monogamous relationship.  I'm in a relationship right now, and although it has not developed into a serious relationship, I wouldn't be able to go behind his back without feeling bad.  In turn, I would expect the same courtesy from him.

The truth is is that there is no gay lifestyle.  It's not a club or a society.... and you don't have to pass a test or act a certain way to be gay.  The only requirement is attraction to the same sex.

BTW, I don't judge anyone for being non-monogamous.  As long as you are certain you aren't hurting anyone...  I don't have a problem with it.  For me though, it's better safe than sorry.

[dave santino]

Hey all, I'm new here, been playing piano since I was 5, taking lessons since age 12, I live in the UK, fave composers Chopin, Rach and Beethoven, pianists Horowitx and Ashkenazy, and while I'm not homosexual, I think its cool that everyone here's open-minded and mature enough to accpet  that some peolpe are, and it doesn't make a *** bit of difference to who that person is. Nice to meet you all. This forum seems a cool place to discuss the music we love, and I'm glad to be a part of it.

[trunks]

Among a good host of others . . .

Peter Tchaikovsky was gay;
Benjamin Britten was gay;
Leonard Bernstein way gay;
Shura Cherkassky was gay;
Karol Szymanowski was gay;
Sviatoslav Richter was said to be gay;
Some say Frederic Chopin was gay and George Sand lesbian.

There is only one thing I'm sure, and that is -
I am so proud of them. 

[asyncopated]

Hmm... there have been quite a number of topics about being gay floating around the forum lately. 

Anyway, I am not out and as yet don't think i qualify as a pianist (I only play the piano) so I don't think I qualify as an out pianist.  But having said that, I am gay.  Never really bothered coming out -- I don't really see the big deal.  People don't really ask and don't really tell.  Personally, I don't see that being gay is an issue in my life and I don't intend to make it one.  It is part of me, but not all of me.  If any one asks, I will willingly tell, but so far, I've somehow manage to pass off as you average straight Joe on the street.  Either people are too embarrassed to ask, or I really need an image consultant!

Anyway, I actually do see a large divide between the gay and non-gay culture (way of life). I suppose that t.v. programming and the like has packaged the stereotypical gay guy and delivered him right to our doorstep.  Take Will and Grace for example.  Charming. Sometimes I wonder if gays just take on the persona simply because it's too easy to do so.

The culture has a very good side.  It is tolerant, and it tries to do what is practical and right.  There is also a very dark side.  Physical beauty counts for a great deal and the testosterone charged, over the top, lip-wrist mentality is sometimes too much to handle. 

As for myself, I simply don’t seem to be able to fit in anywhere.   

al.

[ajw400]

I am a gay pianist too.

What do you people think about ..well.. is there some specifically gay classical music? I know there was a book recently about the "gay sound" and how it was developed by composers copland, bernstein, diamond, kirchner, rorem, barber...etc. I personally think of Tchaikowsky when I think of gay music (like the piano trio and the 4th-6th symphonies).

[mound]

I don't have a problem with gay people,  or with gay people whom are proud of being gay. My teacher is openly gay and a great musician and I have nothing but respect for him. What I do have a problem with, call me a bigot if you will, but I don't believe that is the case, is gay people who take it way over the top, and act totally flamboyant, plastering their cars and houses with rainbows and other signs of gay pride, exaggerating all their movements, their voices and the way they interact with others, and in general, going out of their way to make it a point, that everybody around them is acutely aware that they are gay. Again, be gay, be proud, that is all well and good, but just as the average joe doesn't care that another average joe is straight, and isn't really interested in knowing about his sexual life, he doesn't care that you are gay and isn't interested in hearing about yours either.

Again, I don't have a problem with gays being gay. I have a problem with their insisting that everybody know about it by going way over the top to "display it"

There are many things in life that I'm proud of myself for. If somebody asks, I am more than happy to talk about these things. But it's a shallow ego-driven boost to an otherwise low self-esteem when you start making sure everybody around you is acutely aware of the things you are proud of (be it your sexuality, your race, your religion, your prowess at the piano, your skills as a martial artist or a cook or whatever it is you do/you are that you are proud of.)