I'm certifiably insane, but I'm going to learn Chopin's 10/4

[mosis]

Help? 

After witnessing a friend of mine play this etude a few months after he was at my level of playing, I immediately gained inspiration and determination to learn it for myself. However, I do not wish to make errors in learning the technique and I'm not so sure where to start.

I learned the first 3 measures today, and I don't have much problem with that technique (although I don't know which is the best finginer for bar 3; I'm using 1-3-2-5 for the most part, any suggestions?)

I don't really know which is the "most difficult" part that I should start with, nor do I really know how to play the wide arpeggios in bar 4 without absolutely stressing out my hand and killing myself. Relaxation is key, I'm sure, but I'm not sure how to do that.

Suggestions are appreciated! (Bernhard, I haven't heard from you in a while )

Thanks!

[DarkWind]

I'm currently learning this etude, along with Op. 25, No. 9 and some other pieces. I advise against learning this piece unless you know absolutely what you are doing. Do you have a teacher? Seriously, a ton of techniques can be learned from this piece, and to learn them correctly  takes time. I'm still on the first page after about a month!

[MattL]

I'm currently learning this etude, along with Op. 25, No. 9 and some other pieces. I advise against learning this piece unless you know absolutely what you are doing. Do you have a teacher? Seriously, a ton of techniques can be learned from this piece, and to learn them correctly  takes time. I'm still on the first page after about a month!

Op. 25 No. 9 is awesome, its such a fun piece to play!

[steinwayguy]

The most difficult parts in the piece are those in bars 29-32 and 42-46, begin those first. I can scan my score and e-mail it to you if you want. It has all the different types of coordination needed to play each bar, as well as fingerings, phrasings, and interpretative nuances. I would be willing to explain anything on it that you aren't able to understand (most of it probably). Otherwise I would be here for hours typing my thoughts on each measure. Or, I could only talk about a page every day, it's up to you.

[mosis]

The most difficult parts in the piece are those in bars 29-32 and 42-46, begin those first. I can scan my score and e-mail it to you if you want. It has all the different types of coordination needed to play each bar, as well as fingerings, phrasings, and interpretative nuances. I would be willing to explain anything on it that you aren't able to understand (most of it probably). Otherwise I would be here for hours typing my thoughts on each measure. Or, I could only talk about a page every day, it's up to you.

The e-mail would be great, but the day-by-day, page-for-page description is definitely something I could use. I don't want to inconvenience you in any way, but your offers sound enticing, and I would greatly appreciate if you could do that.

Thanks!

Note: the e-mail in my profile is just the one I use for MSN Messenger. if you actually want to e-mail me, send it to wonderful.mr@gmail.com

[sznitzeln]

Hi Steinwayguy!
Can you put this on some page? I am sure many ppl are interested in this, including myself... 

Thanks,
Jacob

[DarkWind]

I'd love this too!

(darkwind AT darkwinddesign DOT com, if you don't post it up here.)

[Allegroconfuoco]

Hey SteinwayGuy,

that sounds great! Could you send it to alexander1012 AT web DOT de ?

Thanks,
Allegro

[steinwayguy]

I'll hopefully send the e-mail out in the next couple days if I find time. I will, over the next 10 days or so, cover the piece thoroughly in writing, here. Probably one page at a time.

[mosis]

I'll hopefully send the e-mail out in the next couple days if I find time. I will, over the next 10 days or so, cover the piece thoroughly in writing, here. Probably one page at a time.

Thank you very much! I look forward to your wisdom.

Note that I'm REALLY concerned with more of the technical side as compared to the musical and interpretive nuance side, just so you're not wasting more time than needed.

[steinwayguy]

I've decided to just post both the pictures and summary on here. I have the "A" section done. So I will type that up.

[steinwayguy]

In the pick-up, it is especially important to establish the top line, and realize the 5-1 progression, for it will come back later. Through the first two bars, listen to the chord progression and truly make it a chord progression. The right hand is secondary to the left in this instance. With the right hand, you must realize the handings, B#-C#-D#-E, C# etc. One of the practice methods I found particularly helpful with this etude was finding the handings, and then playing them in two different ways- first as blocks, then as arpeggiated chords- after I did this, I played it was written. It is much less to think about this way. By practicing like that makes you think of the four notes as one single unit. This etude is not just a study in playing fast, it is also a study in fast phrasing. The second measure I have written in slurs for each beat, indicating the phrasing. A practice method I used to get the right-hand even in this bar, and actually throughout the piece, was dotted rhythms. Also, I practiced the entire piece using pulsing, playing the note coming only on the beats and realizing the harmonic and melodic progressions. Another practice technique I used for the first two pages was a "1….and go to 2….and go to 3" etc., another variant on the dotted rhythm practice. This will force your hands to move to the next position when they need to, instead of following your fingers (termed by Abbey Whiteside as "reaching with the fingers").  (The third measure-) One practice method I have found to be absolutely essential in almost every technical difficulty I encounter is the use of an arm portato. By using an arm portato for each note in the group of sixteenths, you find the natural position that centers your weight on each note, providing an even tone and a great deal of control. The resulting motion in the third bar is a sort of arm rotation (you'll see when you play it). The hand/elbow/arm should lead the fingers to every note in each group of sixteenths. It is also important to notice the slur marks, as well as the harmonic progression. The last chord in the third measure is that of a 5-chord, and the 1 chord on the first beat of the fourth measure- 5-1 just like what happens in the pick-up. The fourth measure I found to be one of the most difficult in the piece. I like to take time after the C-sharp octaves because that is the end of a small phrase and beginning of a small transition. The broken octaves are played by rotating a firm octave mold. I stress the importance of efficiency in these octaves. Don’t over-rotate, you'll waste energy. The C-sharp to d-sharp chord was definitely, one of the most frustrating parts of the piece. One is that the C-sharps and the d-sharp chord are played in one motion, by a diagonal push in and to the right. This was only hard for me because I had played it for months using two thrusts, which is, I have come to realize inefficient. The d-sharp 4th beat of the 4th measure to the downbeat of the fifth measure (g-sharp) is yet another example of the 5-1 progression, and I also take a little bit of time here. Once again, listen to the harmonic progressions in the right hand and take care to keep the left hand light, legato and pianissimo. The sixth measure was also a toughie for me. Rotation is absolutely essential to the clean and even execution of the sixteenths in the left hand. By using an arm portato, I found that I needed to move my left elbow in slightly to accommodate the awkward position of the b-natural in the third beat. The seventh bar is essentially the same as the third bar, just in the left hand. Also, in the right hand, don't let the chords sound too hollow, realize the full harmony by adding the left hand. In the 8th measure, I used arm feeds every beat and played the 2nd 8th note of each group using rotation. Pay special attention to the counterpoint, dynamics and chord progression. In the 12th measure, don't let it get clouded up by too much pedal. I pedal only the first 8th and leave the pedal up the rest of the time. Once again, use an arm portato to find the correct motion of the wrist/hand. On the second beat, the elbow must go out and kind of push the hand down the keyboard for the remainder of the measure. It is similar to the motion needed in bars 3 and 11, just an extension of the descending part of the motion. In bar 12, as long as you have the right arm/elbow/hand motions, your fingers should fall in the right place. You should not waste energy articulating by over-activating your fingers. Rather, you should let your arm weight articulate for you. In bars 13-16, listen to the right hand. I feel that the fourth beat is a warm up to the down-beat of the next measure. For the left-hand, use the same technique used in the parallel passages earlier. Pay attention to the note values in bar 16 and pedal accordingly. I had trouble for a while with the fourth beat of measure 16. Just like in any normal scale playing, you must lead with your arm, and (according to me) articulate with your arm weight, not your fingers. In bars 17-20, use the techniques discussed earlier, especially the arm portato. In measure 20, it gets particularly awkward in the left hand. You must use reciprocal motion- upwards and downwards movement of the wrist/arm. By pushing your wrist up on the "e" and coming down on the "a-2", then up on "e-and" etc. This accommodates the awkwardness of blocking amongst the black keys. (that was a fairly bad explanation, might revise). In measures 25 and 26, I use no pedal because I feel as soon as you hit that a-flat it drops back to down to mezzo-piano or so, and then starts building towards the b natural. Don't blur, and feed with the arms every beat for maximum efficiency.

[Allegroconfuoco]

Thanks a lot, SteinwayGuy.

I will read it through carefully when I start with this piece.