Bach - Prelude C min BWV 847 WTC1 Pianoteq

[carmelopaolucci]

Dear friends,

I get back to studying and playing piano after a long break.
And I decided to start again with Bach, WTC 1, I don't know if you will like this video but I have a lot of fun playing it and I hope you like it.
Any comments and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Greetings from Italy!
Carmelo

[guadalupejones]

Although the rhythm is still not smooth, I like to have a little bit of a beat like real emotion. I am also very passionate about piano but in 2022, I had to give up my passion to take care of my small family.

[essence]

Love the way you release the LH at 1:36.

Not so sure about the long pauses or holding of chords e.g. at 1:24.

What kind of mood are you trying to convey towards the end? It seems to have lost any anger. Is that intended?

[dizzyfingers]

I think the rhythm is smooth (even) enough in the first section, nothing glaring stands out.  It's the transition between sections.  At 1:13 you sped up.  At 1:26 you slowed down a bit too much - too unrelated to what we've heard so far, something closer to tempo primo would be preferable.  My opinion of course - so many options with Bach.  It's darn good for an amateur pianist.

[essence]

It's darn good for an amateur pianist.

Yes, the consistent articulation of the upper RH note is admirable.

[carmelopaolucci]

Although the rhythm is still not smooth, I like to have a little bit of a beat like real emotion. I am also very passionate about piano but in 2022, I had to give up my passion to take care of my small family.

Thank you very much for your comment guadalupejones!
I will try to follow your advice and work a little more on the rhythm of this not easy prelude. I understand you when you say you had to stop playing to take care of your family.
I stopped playing at 25 for university, then work, then family and then children... I started again at 50 practically from the beginning: BACH... I restudied and recorded all the Inventions 2 parts and the symphonies 3 parts. Then 3 French Suites. Then I started with the WTC1... I have a lot of fun studying a piece a week and trying to record it.
If you liked my video please consider subscribing to my youtube channel.

[carmelopaolucci]

Love the way you release the LH at 1:36.

Not so sure about the long pauses or holding of chords e.g. at 1:24.

What kind of mood are you trying to convey towards the end? It seems to have lost any anger. Is that intended?

Thank you very much for your comment essence.
Bach C-minor prelude is so possessed with the spirit of the C-minor key, so full of restrained
power, of passionate throbbing. They remind me of Beethoven's C-minor Symphony and likewise his Sonata pathetica.
For the interpretation I relied a lot on the WTC1 rev by Busoni edition, which is fantastic for fingering and playing tips... you can find it on IMSLP if you want.
If you liked my video please consider subscribing to my youtube channel.
Greetings from Italy
Carmelo

[carmelopaolucci]

I think the rhythm is smooth (even) enough in the first section, nothing glaring stands out.  It's the transition between sections.  At 1:13 you sped up.  At 1:26 you slowed down a bit too much - too unrelated to what we've heard so far, something closer to tempo primo would be preferable.  My opinion of course - so many options with Bach.  It's darn good for an amateur pianist.

Thank you very much for your comment and your advice dizzyfingers!
I tried to avoid swinging too much with the tempo in Bach it is always difficult to keep it constant and rubato is not allowed...
I will try to improve as much as I can especially in the homogeneity of the piece.
If you liked my video consider subscribing to my YouTube channel.
Greetings from Italy
Carmelo

[jonslaughter]

For me, I like to accent the first note of each figure which is supplying the melody. It helps define the contour of the music. I also like the piece to be more dramatic with dynamics.

You are playing very stiff. The music sounds almost as if it is in 1/1. It should have a 2/2 feel superimposed with a 4/4. Think of it as quarter notes that are filled in with an embellished chord tones.

My suggestion would be for you to try to play it very exaggerated and try to get into the music. I know it is Bach but music is music. You want it to be driving, specially towards the end of the first part when the tension is building up. You should experiment. Remember, just because there are no dynamics written doesn't mean you can't add your own. Ultimately you have to make the notes come alive and if that means filling in dynamics then that is what you have to do. Composers can't notate every little thing. They expect the player to take their "suggestions" as a template, not as the gospel(regardless of what some people believe).

You have al the ingredients but now focus on making it sing. Part of it is the piano IMO. Those digital pianos generally don't have the dynamical range to give all the nuance needed. You might try to see if you can mess with the settings and try changing the key "hardness". I'm assuming the Pianoteq is a plugin you are using? There are much better ones out there. Have you tried playing this on professional grand to compare the difference?

Performance wise it is as if you are reading an audio book without emotion or little emotion. If this is your intent then it is ok. But if you want to people to be emotionally pulled in you yourself have to put in the emotion. This involves shaping the music in a way that gives it character. You shouldn't be playing every "bar" the same way. Meaning you should be thinking about how to add nuance to make the piece feel like a story. E.g., every accent is not the same. Your goal is to add individual character to every note, every beat, every bar. Very subtle nuances that makes each part fit with the whole.

It's not a series of chord changes on a figure. Go back to the C major prelude. It's the same figuration but just chords and inversions but even harder to make sound emotional since there is even less going on the music. In this case the nuances are even more crucial.

For example, when you have the arpeggio runs(the C7b9 to Fm/C), that is a pivotal point in the music(as are the previous changes in the material). That run should, to feel emotionally meaningful, move to the climax, the C note, with intensity and with acceleration. You want to EMPHASIZE that point. It's a V i that is setting up the coda and has a lot of tension. If you do not emphasize the tension then you do not emphasize the release and the release won't feel great. (it's basically sex or the orgasm at work. There is a reason the word climax is used in both contexts)

Part of it is that you are being robotic yourself.  Remember, music is all about emotion. You have surely heard midi music. It has all the right notes, even dynamics, and everything the score has... but it never feels quite musical. Get your body into it, it will help you feel the pulses and the meaning within the music that Bach put there. Maybe get a story in your head that helps you interpret it emotionally.

Don't be afraid to get real loud or real quite. If you notice, in our society typically those types of people get the most attention. Same with music. No matter how good the notes are, if it's played through a walkie-talkie it won't sound/feel good. The real difference between good and great is the emotion and the emotion is what controls all the nuances and "overlays" them into the story the music is trying to tell.

Practice it with too much "emotion" if necessary and then you can back off. Try different things. Experimentation is the key. E.g., what happens if you get quite when it says to get loud? What happens if you accelerate when it says ritard? Try it, see what happens, you'll learn something in the process.

For example, when I play this I put in a subtle acceleration and crescendo from the start until the 2nd part. This is to built up intensity. It is very subtle, just about 5 bpm and about 1.5db. Sometimes more, sometimes less. This is all on top of the already dynamic changes that correspond to the harmonic tensions and accents.

You may claim that it isn't stylistic of Bach to do things like this. I'd then suggest you listen to some violin concertos and solos to see how Bach sounds with emotion. The solo violin pieces are full of emotion that is added by the violinist but doesn't exist in the score. The score, without the emotion, sounds rather bland. In some cases, things simply do not work well musically without the correct "emotion". I think it is a misconception that Bach's music is suppose to be played "as written". Bach was one of the greatest musicians ever to exist. Do you think he wrote emotionless music that effectively are just exercises or that he expected musicians to know how to put emotion in to the music correctly and didn't find a need to notate it?

You have the notes down, the question now is what are you going to do with those notes? My suggestion is that if you try to figure out the emotional part that a lot of problems you have will disappear. The stiffness, the somewhat monotone dynamics, the lack of nuance, etc.

[carmelopaolucci]

For me, I like to accent the first note of each figure which is supplying the melody. It helps define the contour of the music. I also like the piece to be more dramatic with dynamics.

You are playing very stiff. The music sounds almost as if it is in 1/1. It should have a 2/2 feel superimposed with a 4/4. Think of it as quarter notes that are filled in with an embellished chord tones.

My suggestion would be for you to try to play it very exaggerated and try to get into the music. I know it is Bach but music is music. You want it to be driving, specially towards the end of the first part when the tension is building up. You should experiment. Remember, just because there are no dynamics written doesn't mean you can't add your own. Ultimately you have to make the notes come alive and if that means filling in dynamics then that is what you have to do. Composers can't notate every little thing. They expect the player to take their "suggestions" as a template, not as the gospel(regardless of what some people believe).

You have al the ingredients but now focus on making it sing. Part of it is the piano IMO. Those digital pianos generally don't have the dynamical range to give all the nuance needed. You might try to see if you can mess with the settings and try changing the key "hardness". I'm assuming the Pianoteq is a plugin you are using? There are much better ones out there. Have you tried playing this on professional grand to compare the difference?

Performance wise it is as if you are reading an audio book without emotion or little emotion. If this is your intent then it is ok. But if you want to people to be emotionally pulled in you yourself have to put in the emotion. This involves shaping the music in a way that gives it character. You shouldn't be playing every "bar" the same way. Meaning you should be thinking about how to add nuance to make the piece feel like a story. E.g., every accent is not the same. Your goal is to add individual character to every note, every beat, every bar. Very subtle nuances that makes each part fit with the whole.

It's not a series of chord changes on a figure. Go back to the C major prelude. It's the same figuration but just chords and inversions but even harder to make sound emotional since there is even less going on the music. In this case the nuances are even more crucial.

For example, when you have the arpeggio runs(the C7b9 to Fm/C), that is a pivotal point in the music(as are the previous changes in the material). That run should, to feel emotionally meaningful, move to the climax, the C note, with intensity and with acceleration. You want to EMPHASIZE that point. It's a V i that is setting up the coda and has a lot of tension. If you do not emphasize the tension then you do not emphasize the release and the release won't feel great. (it's basically sex or the orgasm at work. There is a reason the word climax is used in both contexts)

Part of it is that you are being robotic yourself.  Remember, music is all about emotion. You have surely heard midi music. It has all the right notes, even dynamics, and everything the score has... but it never feels quite musical. Get your body into it, it will help you feel the pulses and the meaning within the music that Bach put there. Maybe get a story in your head that helps you interpret it emotionally.

Don't be afraid to get real loud or real quite. If you notice, in our society typically those types of people get the most attention. Same with music. No matter how good the notes are, if it's played through a walkie-talkie it won't sound/feel good. The real difference between good and great is the emotion and the emotion is what controls all the nuances and "overlays" them into the story the music is trying to tell.

Practice it with too much "emotion" if necessary and then you can back off. Try different things. Experimentation is the key. E.g., what happens if you get quite when it says to get loud? What happens if you accelerate when it says ritard? Try it, see what happens, you'll learn something in the process.

For example, when I play this I put in a subtle acceleration and crescendo from the start until the 2nd part. This is to built up intensity. It is very subtle, just about 5 bpm and about 1.5db. Sometimes more, sometimes less. This is all on top of the already dynamic changes that correspond to the harmonic tensions and accents.

You may claim that it isn't stylistic of Bach to do things like this. I'd then suggest you listen to some violin concertos and solos to see how Bach sounds with emotion. The solo violin pieces are full of emotion that is added by the violinist but doesn't exist in the score. The score, without the emotion, sounds rather bland. In some cases, things simply do not work well musically without the correct "emotion". I think it is a misconception that Bach's music is suppose to be played "as written". Bach was one of the greatest musicians ever to exist. Do you think he wrote emotionless music that effectively are just exercises or that he expected musicians to know how to put emotion in to the music correctly and didn't find a need to notate it?

You have the notes down, the question now is what are you going to do with those notes? My suggestion is that if you try to figure out the emotional part that a lot of problems you have will disappear. The stiffness, the somewhat monotone dynamics, the lack of nuance, etc.

Thank you so much  Jonslaughter for your comment and for all the precious advices you wrote me, you’ve spent a lot of time writing and it is really really a huge honor for me to receive advice from a professional, and this is evident from your analysis on this little video of mine. Let me preface this with some information: I am just an amateur pianist, my real job is totally different I am a metallurgical engineer, and I play mainly Bach for pure enjoyment. I resumed playing after more than 25 years of stop and have a lot of fun rereading and recording WTC1. I chose to record it on entry level digital piano and pianoteq to show that even with a poor instrument it is possible to achieve an appreciable results. I have available a perfectly tuned and recorded Petrof grand piano, I am well aware of the huge difference in dynamic range between a digital piano and a grand, and also the ease with which it is possible to achieve full speed and cleanliness of notes in the acoustic piano as opposed to the digital (due to the different actions).
From the performance point of view, you are right: the piece should fit more in my fingers, perhaps exaggerating, as you say is a solution, although in Bach Rubato and sudden surges in dynamics are rarely tolerated (in normal performance practice). In my (partial) defense is the fact that I recorded this piece a year or so ago (as you can easily see from my youtube channel), and over time I have improved both in piano setting and in improving dynamics.  My goal has been, throughout this time, to reread WTC 1 as I told you and record it, one prelude or fugue per week, I started with the first one.
Last week I completed prelude and fugue No. 21, maybe I played them in a scholastic way, little emotional but I really enjoyed doing it and basically that's why I started and am continuing. The thing I try to do and sometimes I even succeeded very well (from fugue 15 onwards) is to make the various parts in the fugues sing as if they were voices (subject, contrasubject etc), and this believe me is really not easy neither on a grand piano nor even on a digital for an amateur pianist in a week's study.
You may ask why study a piece only a week or ten days and then move on (it doesn't allow you to grasp the various details and deepen the musical discourse), my answer is: this is not my job, I’m a simply amateur pianist, --I love playing for me more than for others   
I could play much much better by studying a piece for 3/6 months, but that would turn this activity into a job not pure enjoyment as it is now.
 Your analysis of the prelude in C mag BWV 846 is excellent, in that one (the first I've recorded) I used a freer tempo and a different pedalization than you hear from non-professionals. I generally use the pedal sparingly, in this case I keep it half arpeggio, I find this solution lightens the piece considerably.
Do you have a youtube channel ?

[jonslaughter]

No, I do not have a youtube channel.

I think you are doing great, specially for an "amateur". Depending on your goals you may be achieving them just fine.  My criticisms are minor and much of  it is personal.

If, for example, your goal is to focus on technique only then "emotion" can be detrimental. If your goal is to get through the WTC completely as only exercises for the technical development then it is a great thing. Emotion, technically, can come later once technique is developed.

Ultimately if you are doing it for you and you get more out of the technical focus(sort of approaching it from a "mathematical perspective") then you likely need no criticisms since you already have a command of the technique to play these pieces.

My main point with my comments are that, at least from my perspective, one should generally try to meld both the emotional aspects and technical because music is ultimately, generally, about emotion. Again, if your goal is purely technical then that is a moot point. There is definitely benefit from focusing solely on technique, specially as an amateur who wants to develop a very strong technical foundation and playing through the WTC will do that. There is little I can add because when you are done you will have a technical command of the instrument.

For me, when I started I was very theory oriented and I lacked understanding the emotional side and always felt there was something missing. Just playing the notes never felt right. Once I finally was able to connect the emotional side much of the issues I faced, even technical ones, "magically" disappeared. So, from my experience emotion and technique are not completely disjoint. They feed off each other. They must be balanced. In fact, I probably focus too much on emotion now(because it sort of is addictive) than technical.

The idea with experimentation and exaggeration is not that they are the most musical but they help frame  emotions in the piece so that one understands how the different "emotional aspects" are connected. If your focus is simply playing through pieces for the technical challenge then emotion is moot. Once one understands the emotional content one can scale things back as much as desired but the piece will still retain the emotional effect. In fact, at least for me, I find that being force to control the emotions this way adds a lot of impact in the music. It is much like a powerful horse being controlled. There is power but it is not being released. There is an awareness of that power and there is anticipation in it being unleashed but the control it is where the true power lies and, at least for me, is the "battle"(or emotions) that drive the music forward. It is like having to be both the horse and the horse rider. It's all about tension and release for me. The notes are just a medium for that. This is all my personal experience and what I seek in music. I grew up on mathematics and science and was quite disconnected/unemotional person but I was always drawn towards music I think precisely because it pulled at those atrophied emotions I had. Over time changed how I looked at the world and I think I became more balanced because of it. Everyone is different of course.

I'd be interested in if you recorded yourself learning one of the fugues or preludes from from the start and maybe giving commentary about what you are thinking/doing.  I could probably learn something from it and maybe it would be easier to criticize any faults or room for improvement. I've only played a few preludes and fugues. I was actually getting ready to work through more recently when I came across your post. Maybe this would motivate me to also go through them all.

Ultimately you do what you enjoy the most out of it. That is what is most important. Doing it for yourself is what matters. We all have our preferences and so those are really critiquable. Whatever technical issues you have will surely be solved by Bach as you work through the WTC.

After all, you asked for comments and suggestions. Since it seems you understand those issues I mentioned there is really little to say. It seems you have no specific questions or issues

[carmelopaolucci]

No, I do not have a youtube channel.

I think you are doing great, specially for an "amateur". Depending on your goals you may be achieving them just fine.  My criticisms are minor and much of  it is personal.

If, for example, your goal is to focus on technique only then "emotion" can be detrimental. If your goal is to get through the WTC completely as only exercises for the technical development then it is a great thing. Emotion, technically, can come later once technique is developed.

Ultimately if you are doing it for you and you get more out of the technical focus(sort of approaching it from a "mathematical perspective") then you likely need no criticisms since you already have a command of the technique to play these pieces.

My main point with my comments are that, at least from my perspective, one should generally try to meld both the emotional aspects and technical because music is ultimately, generally, about emotion. Again, if your goal is purely technical then that is a moot point. There is definitely benefit from focusing solely on technique, specially as an amateur who wants to develop a very strong technical foundation and playing through the WTC will do that. There is little I can add because when you are done you will have a technical command of the instrument.

For me, when I started I was very theory oriented and I lacked understanding the emotional side and always felt there was something missing. Just playing the notes never felt right. Once I finally was able to connect the emotional side much of the issues I faced, even technical ones, "magically" disappeared. So, from my experience emotion and technique are not completely disjoint. They feed off each other. They must be balanced. In fact, I probably focus too much on emotion now(because it sort of is addictive) than technical.

The idea with experimentation and exaggeration is not that they are the most musical but they help frame  emotions in the piece so that one understands how the different "emotional aspects" are connected. If your focus is simply playing through pieces for the technical challenge then emotion is moot. Once one understands the emotional content one can scale things back as much as desired but the piece will still retain the emotional effect. In fact, at least for me, I find that being force to control the emotions this way adds a lot of impact in the music. It is much like a powerful horse being controlled. There is power but it is not being released. There is an awareness of that power and there is anticipation in it being unleashed but the control it is where the true power lies and, at least for me, is the "battle"(or emotions) that drive the music forward. It is like having to be both the horse and the horse rider. It's all about tension and release for me. The notes are just a medium for that. This is all my personal experience and what I seek in music. I grew up on mathematics and science and was quite disconnected/unemotional person but I was always drawn towards music I think precisely because it pulled at those atrophied emotions I had. Over time changed how I looked at the world and I think I became more balanced because of it. Everyone is different of course.

I'd be interested in if you recorded yourself learning one of the fugues or preludes from from the start and maybe giving commentary about what you are thinking/doing.  I could probably learn something from it and maybe it would be easier to criticize any faults or room for improvement. I've only played a few preludes and fugues. I was actually getting ready to work through more recently when I came across your post. Maybe this would motivate me to also go through them all.

Ultimately you do what you enjoy the most out of it. That is what is most important. Doing it for yourself is what matters. We all have our preferences and so those are really critiquable. Whatever technical issues you have will surely be solved by Bach as you work through the WTC.

After all, you asked for comments and suggestions. Since it seems you understand those issues I mentioned there is really little to say. It seems you have no specific questions or issues

First of all jonslaughter thank you very much for your comment which I find direct, constructive, honest and genuine.
Frankly I am little interested in pure technique, also because as you may have guessed from my first recordings I already have a decent manual technique that I am slowly regaining because I am coming from a long stop. I was telling you that I play mainly for me, so my goal is not the “wow effect” of the listener to which many piano virtuosos on youtube aim...nor do I think it is very proper to play Bach in an overly romantic way: With rubati, and rambling tempos or dynamic colors that are too decisive... muffled sounds and free pedal... I imagine it is bizarre to have a Bach with a wig, makeup and lipstick...
Many times, especially in the early days, I had to contend with the dual medium I use: Digital piano that gives a midi signal and the same that is interpreted by Pianoteq to return a sound... This slows down the dynamic expressiveness of the pieces a lot. In this your suggestion to exaggerate the execution a bit might make sense... the main problem is that I can't check in this way just-in time the results if satisfactory but only after listening again... What can I say... I will work on it....
As for the idea of presenting my videos better I will try since the next one to explain how I study a Bach prelude or fugue...who knows maybe I will be able to pick up some useful suggestions.
Greetings from Italy
Carmelo