Methods to get better at using arms/repeating chords?

[musicsdarkangel]

I know I already posted a thread about my octave problem, but this is on a different aspect.

I was wondering what exersizes or anything I can do to improve the speed and control of my arms

aka.  Octaves, repeated chords, stamina


Are there any etudes, exersizes, even outside of the piano that I can do to help with my efficiency?

I have good finger technique, I can play fast runs, but in La Campanella and Mephisto Waltz, I always slow down when there are rapid octaves or repeated chords.

In the fastest run in la campanella, right before the cheap chromatic scale with both hands, my right hand can play as fast as the Watts recording I have (and with control), BUT my left hand slows it down because I can use my arm for the thirds quickly enough.

I have tried playing that part leggiero, but the chords don't come together.

Anyway, any practice ideas?  octave scales? 


Also, how many of you use the fourth finger for octaves whenever you play black keys?

[lostinidlewonder]

I feel like a parrot saying this again and again on here. Break larger sections into smaller ones. Even big volumes of repeated octaves can be practiced in groups. How you seperate octave movements into groups is to see the shape that each few make. Use that as a basis for your memory and movement/flow excersise. There is no excersise in the whole world which will make you any better, it is a matter of seeing what you play in shapes, break that into its groups, and then just drill them over and over. There is nothing else to it.
Give me any example from the Mephisto, I can break it up to groups for you if you need it.

[pianiststrongbad]

This is something I have been battling over the past few years.  Though I have been noticing improvement in my repeated notes in the past few months.  I think in order to get fast repeated chords/octaves to come out efficiently, it is a combination of both wrist movement and arm movement.  As for pieces to practice this one, there are several.  Chopin wrote the octave etude.  Though, I think the best practice is Erlkonig.  Rachmaninov Op. 23 no. 5 is also useful for this.  Prokofiev Diabolic Suggestion could also work.  These are just the first few that come to my mind.

[Pianostudy]

YES! I use 4 on ALL my black key octaves.  Well, not exactly all, but particularly moving passages where it's more than just one single sustained octave.  I find it really helps the fluidity of my playing and speed.  If you have a big enough hand to do this all the time, I would say yes you should.  I believe most of the vurtuosi do use 4 on black keys. 

[thierry13]

I would highly recommed Chopin's octave etude. Played CORRECTLY, not only like a technical exercisse, will get you more technique you could imagine. And for chords... I don't really try Wild Jagd(Liszt's TE no..

[lagin]

Not sure what you're doing, but do not, do not, do not, tense your wrist when you play octaves.   It can result in an injury.  My teacher had me learn my octave scales by starting with an exaggerated waving motion in my wrist.  My hand went almost vertical before it hit each octave.  After a couple months I really got the feel for it and could minimize the motion to just a slight ripple verses a wave.  Just plunking straight up and down is not as time efficient, also.  "Flicking or waving your wrist makes it possible to hit the keys quicker.  Hope I'm making sense .