Abolish the Chopin competition!

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Brooo how do people not get tired of this???  Chopin died almost 200 years ago if he was alive today he’d be like what is wrong with you people.  I don’t like listening to my own music more than twice in a row imagine people torturing you in music purgatory for almost 200 years.  There’s 84 people playing the same sh*t. We don’t need another Chopin nocturne.  We don’t need another complete set of etudes.  There are no new interpretations every stone has been turned.  Every tempo, every dynamic, every hidden melody, every voicing, every rubato has been done already there’s literally no point to this. 

The finals they have what like 8 people playing the same two concertos?  I don’t care how good your ears are no human is capable of judging 8 of the same two concertos in a row. 

If you say ‘oh this person brought out a new melody or had the best singing tone I’ve ever heard before’ you’re lying.  You just think the performer is hot or you had a really good night of sleep or it’s good weather outside or something. 

This is why Martha Argerich falls asleep every year even she’s sick of it lol.  I don’t even consider this art anymore. 

[frodo10]

A: Do you want to go see a performance of Beethoven’s 9th symphony?
B: No, I’ve already heard this.
A: Really?  How many times?
B: Once.
A: Don’t you like it?
B: Yes.  I thought it was great.  But I’ve already heard this.
A: I've heard this a hundred times and I still get goosebumps when I hear this. But okay. Suit yourself.
B: And if I had my way, I would make it a law – one listen per musical work is all one is allowed to hear – under penalty of law.
A: What?  Now you lost me.

[frodo10]

Son:  Why do I have to keep repeating this Chopin piece over and over?
Dad:  So you can learn it. Practice makes perfect.
Son: But it’s so boring.  I have to keep hearing the same thing over and over again.
Dad:  Don’t you like Chopin?

[liszt-and-the-galops]

You'd be incredible on Abolish Everything, lmao.

Jokes aside, I agree. I think that Chopin simply doesn't have enough pieces for any amount of variety to appear in a competition where only his works are allowed to be played. The only "one composer only" tournaments that could theoretically be possible to actually do and make interesting are the likes of Bach, Schubert, Czerny, and Liszt, who wrote upwards of 1,000 pieces (assuming that you break up their opuses, e.g. "S. 139 Transcendental Etudes" --> "S. 139 no. 1, S. 139 no.2, etc.").

Plus, the restrictions would need to be changed to allow for a wider selection of pieces. If there was a "Liszt Competition" where everyone in the first round was required to play "one piece from S. 139, one piece from S. 141, one piece with 'Reminiscences' in its name, and five pieces from different Books of the S. 146 Technical Studies," I think the vast majority of people wouldn't like it at all.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

You'd be incredible on Abolish Everything, lmao.

There’s so many things with classical music and just music in general I wanna abolish lol

[rachmaninoff_forever]

A: I've heard this a hundred times and I still get goosebumps when I hear this. But okay. Suit yourself.

Anyone who says this is lying lol.

At least coming from a performers perspective I don’t know a single musician who doesn’t get fatigue playing and listening to the same stuff played the same way by the same people.  I don’t think I’ve seen or performed ANYTHING live 100 times. 

There’s an interview floating around somewhere in YouTube where Garrick Ohlsson slipped up and said he wouldn’t even go and see any of the contestants live if he wasn’t on the jury.  (Not this year this was maybe in the 2010s)

The comp would maybe make more sense if there was more variety instead of beating one composer to death.  Even from a programming perspective if there was an all Czerny comp or an all *insert x composer* comp that’s just bad programming.  No individual composer has enough variety to warrant this much volume by this many players in such a short time

[frodo10]

Q: Is the Chopin competition still popular today?

AI: Yes, the International Chopin Piano Competition remains highly popular and prestigious today. The 2021 and 2025 editions have drawn record numbers of applicants and a massive global audience, especially online.

High application numbers: The 2025 edition received a record 642 applications from pianists worldwide, reflecting the competition's prestige and importance for young musicians. This is a significant increase over the more than 500 applications received for the 2020 edition.

Tickets sell out quickly: The high demand for live tickets remains a sign of enduring popularity. Tickets for the 2025 competition's most anticipated events sold out far in advance.

Q: What does this popularity say about Chopin's music?

AI: The lasting popularity of the International Chopin Piano Competition, and its wide global audience, proves the timeless and universal appeal of Chopin's music. The devotion of millions to a contest featuring only his compositions speaks volumes about his profound legacy as a composer for the piano.

Its deep emotional expressiveness:
Timeless emotions. The competition's appeal shows that the emotional intensity of Chopin's work—from the haunting melancholy of his nocturnes to the fiery passion of his ballades—transcends cultural and historical differences.

A "poet of the piano." Chopin is frequently described as the "poet of the piano," and the success of the competition confirms this title. The event is a celebration of his ability to evoke deep, universal human feelings of love, joy, and sorrow through a single instrument.

My personal opinion:  Chopin is great.  The day I get sick of hearing his music is the day I'm sick of living.  But if someone is sick of hearing it, that's fine with me.  Listen to something you like.

[frodo10]

A: I've enjoyed eating a good cheeseburger often times in my 67 years of living. I must have eaten over a 100 cheeseburgers in my life.
B: You're lying lol.
A: No I'm serious.  I enjoy them as much today as when I was young - believe it or not! 

[liszt-and-the-galops]

Anyone who says this is lying lol.

At least coming from a performers perspective I don’t know a single musician who doesn’t get fatigue playing and listening to the same stuff played the same way by the same people.  I don’t think I’ve seen or performed ANYTHING live 100 times.

Not necessarily. Just as an example, I've probably listened to Gyorgy Cziffra's interpretation of Liszt's S. 219 Grand Galop Chromatique and Sung Chang's interpretation of S. 140 no. 3 "La Campanella" (the 1838 version; the 1851 version sucks) at least a hundred times over the course of a few years. Though I agree with you that listening to the same 10-ish pieces by the same composer played hundreds of times with little-to-no variety in interpretation (and usually inferior to other recordings, e.g. Frederic Chiu's ChopEts, Cortot's ChopEts, Seong-Jin Cho's B4, Zimerman's B2, etc.) would get on the nerves of just about anyone.

Even from a programming perspective if there was an all Czerny comp or an all *insert x composer* comp that’s just bad programming.  No individual composer has enough variety to warrant this much volume by this many players in such a short time

Czerny and especially Liszt actually do, but I will admit that those are probably the only two piano composers in history that you might be able to do an entire competition on.

Even then though, you'd probably end up with the same well-known pieces being played over and over again. For Liszt, for example, I'd imagine that 90% of the pieces played would fall into one of the following categories:
Late Etudes (S. 139 Transcendental Etudes, S. 141 Paganini Etudes, S. 143 Ab Irato, S. 144 Three Concert Etudes, S. 145 Two Concert Etudes, S. 146 Technical Studies)
Rhapsodies (Hungarian Rhapsodies nos. 2, 6, 10, 12, Rhapsodie Espagnole)
Reminiscences de Norma or Don Juan
Liebestraum no. 3
Sonata in B Minor
Concertos (nos. 1 and 2 would probably be more common than no. 3)
Some of the easier Beethoven Symphony Transcriptions (S. 464)

with the following probably making up most of the remaining 10%:
S. 252 Rondeau Fantastique "El Contrabandista"
the Consolations
some horribly butchered individual movements from the harder Beethoven Symphony Transcriptions (No. 9 mvt. 1 and No. 7 mvt. 4 would probably be the most common in this category).

This completely ignores the vast majority of Liszt's utterly gigantic body of works; for example, I highly doubt that much of anyone would play any of Liszt's Ballades or Polonaises, most of his Fantasies, most of the earlier Etudes (S. 136, S. 137, S. 138, S. 140, S. 142) or most of the transcriptions (many of the pieces I just listed are among Liszt's best pieces IMO, with the exception of S. 136).

Tangentially related, but this is why I get confused when someone dismisses Liszt as a composer or claims that they don't like anything by him; with him quite possibly being the composer with the largest number of pieces (and if not, certainly being in the top 10), it's statistically impossible for someone to not like any of his pieces. But I digress.

Frodo, please actually engage with the conversation instead of asking predictive text to spit out some slop for you. Thanks in advance.

[frodo10]

Frodo, please actually engage with the conversation instead of asking predictive text to spit out some slop for you. Thanks in advance.

I've engaged and now I'm out.  I'll let others defend the competition if they want.  No problem if you guys want to abolish the competition.  Have fun! 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

transcends cultural and historical differences.

All the contestants are white and East Asian what do you mean transcend cultural and historical differences lol

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Czerny and especially Liszt actually do, but I will admit that those are probably the only two piano composers in history that you might be able to do an entire competition on.

If I had to choose which composer to do a whole comp on it would be either Liszt Czerny or Bach, but AT SOME POINT I would have had enough.  It would be nice to make a rule where nobody can play the same stuff to avoid everyone beating the b minor sonata to death.

But I guess most of the people who watch the comp aren’t watching EVERY SINGLE contestant. 

Going back to the first point, sure there’s recordings you like, but there’s no way anybody’s having goosebumps after listening to the same song by cziffra or anybody a hundred times.  You already know what it sounds like.  And it’s even worse if you’re actually playing the tune.  Composers get sick of their own music all the time that’s just human.  Nothing will ever be like the first time you heard something.  Maybe you some time off listening to it and it feels fresh, but people over romanticize listening experiences for…. Idk what reason. 

Like yeah I love the Horowitz Bach Busoni G minor chorale, but I’m not gonna be like ‘omg I get goosebumps every time I listen to it’.  If I was high off shrooms or acid maybe I would.  But I’ve never met anyone irl who is like that. 

I think the reason why some people dislike Liszt is cause a lot of his most famous stuff is flashy and trashy and don’t go beyond that.  Which if you have such a large volume of music sure some of it or even a lot of it isn’t gonna be good, but he has a lot of range so I don’t hold it against him.  Idk there’s something for everyone

[yqxpiano]

Why abolish it. It’s good publicity and good money. $$$$$$$ capitalism

[liszt-and-the-galops]

Why abolish it. It’s good publicity and good money. $$$$$$$ capitalism

Got to love it when 99% of the money is controlled by 1% of people...

[orgarnic]

This is like, "It's only corruption if I'm on the receiving end."

[liszt-and-the-galops]

This is like, "It's only corruption if I'm on the receiving end."

Reminds me of that old saying...

"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out -- because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out -- because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out -- because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me."

[transitional]

The only "one composer only" tournaments that could theoretically be possible to actually do and make interesting are the likes of Bach, Schubert, Czerny, and Liszt, who wrote upwards of 1,000 pieces

At a certain point, I feel like you would get tired of all those pieces eventually, though. Maybe I just don't like Czerny. It might work for Liszt, but I feel like even his repertoire is limited (especially when you consider the repertoire that most people can actually manage).

Yeah, I don't think it needs to be abolished. If you don't like it, don't listen to it. But it is getting quite repetitive to me, as well. That's part of why I'm not paying attention to it as much this year: I'm ready to try completely new works. I've also been listening to more of other genres recently, and besides some favorites, I don't want to spend all my time this fall listening to Chopin.

[benbspiano]

Facts

[lostinidlewonder]

The world's saturated with piano comps, and prestigious ones don't have anywhere near as much significance as before. More and more people are playing piano but the classical world is niche and is not as relevant as it used to be. I think that's a good thing, we need to get with the times.

[essence]

Not necessarily. Just as an example, I've probably listened to Gyorgy Cziffra's interpretation of Liszt's S. 219 Grand Galop Chromatique and Sung Chang's interpretation of S. 140 no. 3 "La Campanella" (the 1838 version; the 1851 version sucks) at least a hundred times over the course of a few years. Though I agree with you that listening to the same 10-ish pieces by the same composer played hundreds of times with little-to-no variety in interpretation (and usually inferior to other recordings, e.g. Frederic Chiu's ChopEts, Cortot's ChopEts, Seong-Jin Cho's B4, Zimerman's B2, etc.) would get on the nerves of just about anyone.
Czerny and especially Liszt actually do, but I will admit that those are probably the only two piano composers in history that you might be able to do an entire competition on.

Even then though, you'd probably end up with the same well-known pieces being played over and over again. For Liszt, for example, I'd imagine that 90% of the pieces played would fall into one of the following categories:
Late Etudes (S. 139 Transcendental Etudes, S. 141 Paganini Etudes, S. 143 Ab Irato, S. 144 Three Concert Etudes, S. 145 Two Concert Etudes, S. 146 Technical Studies)
Rhapsodies (Hungarian Rhapsodies nos. 2, 6, 10, 12, Rhapsodie Espagnole)
Reminiscences de Norma or Don Juan
Liebestraum no. 3
Sonata in B Minor
Concertos (nos. 1 and 2 would probably be more common than no. 3)
Some of the easier Beethoven Symphony Transcriptions (S. 464)

with the following probably making up most of the remaining 10%:
S. 252 Rondeau Fantastique "El Contrabandista"
the Consolations
some horribly butchered individual movements from the harder Beethoven Symphony Transcriptions (No. 9 mvt. 1 and No. 7 mvt. 4 would probably be the most common in this category).

This completely ignores the vast majority of Liszt's utterly gigantic body of works; for example, I highly doubt that much of anyone would play any of Liszt's Ballades or Polonaises, most of his Fantasies, most of the earlier Etudes (S. 136, S. 137, S. 138, S. 140, S. 142) or most of the transcriptions (many of the pieces I just listed are among Liszt's best pieces IMO, with the exception of S. 136).

Tangentially related, but this is why I get confused when someone dismisses Liszt as a composer or claims that they don't like anything by him; with him quite possibly being the composer with the largest number of pieces (and if not, certainly being in the top 10), it's statistically impossible for someone to not like any of his pieces. But I digress.

Frodo, please actually engage with the conversation instead of asking predictive text to spit out some slop for you. Thanks in advance.

For my own enjoyment I tend to focus on the Annees de Pelerinage and the B minor sonata.

What about a Messiaen competition? 100 performances of the Vingt Regards? Joke. But an opening round which insisted on 5 pieces of the Vingt Regards in combination with Chopin would go down well.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Also just a reminder these comps are rigged

The year that Bruce Liu won he was the student of juror Dang Thai Son

Second place was student of juror Paleczny

And 4th place was student of juror Zydron

[dizzyfingers]

Brooo how do people not get tired of this???  Chopin died almost 200 years ago if he was alive today he’d be like what is wrong with you people.  I don’t like listening to my own music more than twice in a row imagine people torturing you in music purgatory for almost 200 years.  There’s 84 people playing the same sh*t. We don’t need another Chopin nocturne.  We don’t need another complete set of etudes.  There are no new interpretations every stone has been turned.  Every tempo, every dynamic, every hidden melody, every voicing, every rubato has been done already there’s literally no point to this. 

The finals they have what like 8 people playing the same two concertos?  I don’t care how good your ears are no human is capable of judging 8 of the same two concertos in a row. 

If you say ‘oh this person brought out a new melody or had the best singing tone I’ve ever heard before’ you’re lying.  You just think the performer is hot or you had a really good night of sleep or it’s good weather outside or something. 

This is why Martha Argerich falls asleep every year even she’s sick of it lol.  I don’t even consider this art anymore.

Oh the Chopin competition is happening?
I haven't listened in.
Seems like we just had one?
I'm still listening to the Van Cliburn competition.

~ It's awesome how you can just ignore Online things if you want to ~

[thorn]

For my own enjoyment I tend to focus on the Annees de Pelerinage and the B minor sonata.

What about a Messiaen competition? 100 performances of the Vingt Regards? Joke. But an opening round which insisted on 5 pieces of the Vingt Regards in combination with Chopin would go down well.

There was a Messiaen competition but it seems to have ended with Yvonne Loriod's death. The repertoire requirements were crazy:

2000: https://web.archive.org/web/20060622032447/https://civp.com/messiaen/messieangb/reglement00gb.html

2003:
https://web.archive.org/web/20060622032422/https://civp.com/messiaen/messieangb/reglementgb.html

[essence]

Now that Messiaen competition I would go a long way to listen to.

[frodo10]

I changed my mind!    

Yes, that's a cute logic lesson and a cutesy conclusion, not without some grain of truth.

But I think we'd get more out of a general discussion of which cultures pursue classical music (as performers and listeners) and which cultures do not, and why.

Logic doesn't work too well when applied to generalities.  The more general the subject the more assumptions are being made, the more variables there are - - - feel free to talk to your chatbot friend about where logic works well and where it starts to be inapplicable ...

Okay - fair point.  However the discussion I gave on logic was in regard to a very small point that AI gave for the relevance and popularity of the Chopin competition and Chopin's music.  This AI response was given to counter the hypothesis that Rach gave stating the Chopin Competition should be abolished! 

Let's forget the AI response that I gave and start again. Let's remove the AI response and concentrate instead on the following.

Rach's thread is entitled "Abolish the Chopin Competition!"

Brooo how do people not get tired of this???  Chopin died almost 200 years ago if he was alive today he’d be like what is wrong with you people.  I don’t like listening to my own music more than twice in a row imagine people torturing you in music purgatory for almost 200 years.  There’s 84 people playing the same sh*t. We don’t need another Chopin nocturne.  We don’t need another complete set of etudes.  There are no new interpretations every stone has been turned.  Every tempo, every dynamic, every hidden melody, every voicing, every rubato has been done already there’s literally no point to this. 

The finals they have what like 8 people playing the same two concertos?  I don’t care how good your ears are no human is capable of judging 8 of the same two concertos in a row. 

If you say ‘oh this person brought out a new melody or had the best singing tone I’ve ever heard before’ you’re lying.  You just think the performer is hot or you had a really good night of sleep or it’s good weather outside or something. 

This is why Martha Argerich falls asleep every year even she’s sick of it lol.  I don’t even consider this art anymore.

Okay, here is what I am getting from this.  Please correct me if I am misinterpreting.
1) Rach is sick of hearing the Chopin competition
2) Listening to the music of Chopin is torture for Rach
3) Argerich is sick of the Chopin competition and so falls asleep every year because she is sick of the competition (or perhaps sick of Chopin's music - not sure here).

From this Rach concludes the following:  Here I am just guessing on some things that only Rach himself can clarify.
1) Since Rach is sick of the Chopin competition and Rach is tortured by hearing Chopin's music - the same must be true for everyone else.
2) The fact that many millions love the competition and the competition is more popular now than ever is either due to
a) People are too stupid to know what they like, or
b) Incorrect fact: Chopin's competition is not loved by many millions of people and the competition is not popular

So only Rach can explain the following:
1) Do you believe that Chopin's competition is not loved by many millions of people and the competition is not popular.  If yes, please show us the evidence. 
2) Do you believe that people are smart enough to know what they like and dislike?  Please explain.
3) Do you believe that because you (and maybe a couple others here on Pianostreet) hate the competition, everyone must feel the same as you?  "I hate ice cream, therefore everyone hates ice cream."  Please explain the logic behind this.
4) Would you abolish the competition if you had the authority to do so?  If yes - what does this say about you as a person.  If no - why not?

[orgarnic]

I feel like abolishing it would be an exaggeration. Not everybody listens to piano music - especially classical - as much as you. The Chopin Competition is a great way to publicize classical music as a whole, not just Chopin. It might be boring to you, but think about the net positive.

[orgarnic]

I changed my mind!    

What part of your mind changed? I don't see any changes in opinion after reading through this post a second time. All you did was post it in this thread instead of "what is on your mind right now".

[frodo10]

What part of your mind changed? I don't see any changes in opinion after reading through this post a second time. All you did was post it in this thread instead of "what is on your mind right now".

The part where I said I was out of this thread.  I said I'm out of this thread.  But here I am back again!  Sorry for not clarifying! 

I'm hoping I can persuade Rach to change his mind and not abolish the Chopin competition.  I would hate to see it go!

[liszt-and-the-galops]

I feel like abolishing it would be an exaggeration. Not everybody listens to piano music - especially classical - as much as you. The Chopin Competition is a great way to publicize classical music as a whole, not just Chopin. It might be boring to you, but think about the net positive.

I think that most of us in favor of abolishing are also in favor of replacing it with a competition centered around a composer who actually has enough pieces to form an entire competition around (e.g. Liszt, Czerny).

I changed my mind!    

I don't think that that's cause for celebration.

The part where I said I was out of this thread.  I said I'm out of this thread.  But here I am back again!  Sorry for not clarifying! 

If you kept bad-mouthing this thread and discussing its subject on a different one, did you really ever leave it?

[frodo10]

I think that most of us in favor of abolishing are also in favor of replacing it with a competition centered around a composer who actually has enough pieces to form an entire competition around (e.g. Liszt, Czerny).
I don't think that that's cause for celebration.
If you kept bad-mouthing this thread and discussing its subject on a different one, did you really ever leave it?

I think I might be taking Rach's thread and words too seriously.  I think this might be my mistake.  However, I would like Rach or someone to address the questions I raised in my prior large post here.  No one cares to respond?  That's okay too!. 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I think that most of us in favor of abolishing are also in favor of replacing it with a competition centered around a composer who actually has enough pieces to form an entire competition around (e.g. Liszt, Czerny).

THIS

However I wouldn’t be against abolishing competitions all together. 

I’m not against FESTIVALS though.  Turn every comp into a festival and I’d be happier with that

[frodo10]

I think that most of us in favor of abolishing are also in favor of replacing it with a competition centered around a composer who actually has enough pieces to form an entire competition around (e.g. Liszt, Czerny).

However I wouldn’t be against abolishing competitions all together. 

I’m not against FESTIVALS though.  Turn every comp into a festival and I’d be happier with that

Okay.  And my prior post made today 10/11/25 at 07:14:34 PM.  I ask 4 questions here.  If you don't answer then I will assume that I am taking your thread too literally.  No - you would not abolish the Chopin competition if you had the ability to do so by yourself.  You are not the dictator type (like a Putin or a Hitler). You are just having fun with a thought experiment with this thread.  I can relate to that! 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I changed my mind!    


Okay - fair point.  However the discussion I gave on logic was in regard to a very small point that AI gave for the relevance and popularity of the Chopin competition and Chopin's music.  This AI response was given to counter the hypothesis that Rach gave stating the Chopin Competition should be abolished! 

Let's forget the AI response that I gave and start again. Let's remove the AI response and concentrate instead on the following.

Rach's thread is entitled "Abolish the Chopin Competition!"
Okay, here is what I am getting from this.  Please correct me if I am misinterpreting.
1) Rach is sick of hearing the Chopin competition
2) Listening to the music of Chopin is torture for Rach
3) Argerich is sick of the Chopin competition and so falls asleep every year because she is sick of the competition (or perhaps sick of Chopin's music - not sure here).

From this Rach concludes the following:  Here I am just guessing on some things that only Rach himself can clarify.
1) Since Rach is sick of the Chopin competition and Rach is tortured by hearing Chopin's music - the same must be true for everyone else.
2) The fact that many millions love the competition and the competition is more popular now than ever is either due to
a) People are too stupid to know what they like, or
b) Incorrect fact: Chopin's competition is not loved by many millions of people and the competition is not popular

So only Rach can explain the following:
1) Do you believe that Chopin's competition is not loved by many millions of people and the competition is not popular.  If yes, please show us the evidence. 
2) Do you believe that people are smart enough to know what they like and dislike?  Please explain.
3) Do you believe that because you (and maybe a couple others here on Pianostreet) hate the competition, everyone must feel the same as you?  "I hate ice cream, therefore everyone hates ice cream."  Please explain the logic behind this.
4) Would you abolish the competition if you had the authority to do so?  If yes - what does this say about you as a person.  If no - why not?

1.  Just cause it’s popular doesn’t mean anything.  McDonald’s is popular but that doesn’t mean it’s good for you.
2.  Idk what that has to do with anything
3.  Still don’t know what that has to do with anything
4.  Yeah I’d abolish it and turn it into a festival

[frodo10]

1.  Just cause it’s popular doesn’t mean anything.  McDonald’s is popular but that doesn’t mean it’s good for you.
2.  Idk what that has to do with anything
3.  Still don’t know what that has to do with anything
4.  Yeah I’d abolish it and turn it into a festival

Number 4 - I don't believe you.  It's pretty funny though. Heil Rach! 

[liszt-and-the-galops]

Heil Rach! 

Not funny.

Number 4 - I don't believe you.

I would definitely abolish it and replace it with something else (again, probably a competition revolving around Liszt or Czerny, or simply a broader "Polish Composers Competition"), and I'm 99% sure that I'm softer on these competitions than Rach_forever is.

[frodo10]

Not funny.
I would definitely abolish it and replace it with something else (again, probably a competition revolving around Liszt or Czerny, or simply a broader "Polish Composers Competition"), and I'm 99% sure that I'm softer on these competitions than Rach_forever is.

Not funny - you are correct!  Rach and you would disregard the feelings of many millions and make a decision to abolish something as a dictator would.  Stalin - look at what he did and how this harmed many great Russian composers.  Do I need to list them and how they were harmed and how music was harmed?

But the truth is - you two guys have no power or say about what happens to the Chopin competition.  So have fun with your thought experiment and enjoy!

And I would ask that you reflect on you dictatorial impulses.  Do you guys have wives, children?

[liszt-and-the-galops]

Rach and you would disregard the feelings of many millions and make a decision to abolish something as a dictator would.  Stalin - look at what he did and how this harmed many great Russian composers.  Do I need to list them and how they were harmed and how music was harmed?

This is a false equivalence. Stalin had many composers assassinated because they were considered intellectuals (e.g. Mykola Leontovych) and therefore a danger to his regime. Rach_forever and I are arguing that a competition should be "abolished" because of its unfairness (among other things) and advocating for a replacement that would fulfill the same purpose but without any of the flaws (or at least with fewer of them).

But the truth is - you two guys have no power or say about what happens to the Chopin competition.  So have fun with your thought experiment and enjoy!

Not necessarily. Companies and governments can and will cave to popular opposition.

Is this a fantasy in this context? Absolutely.

Do you guys have wives, children?[/b]

I'm aroace, so I am abso-f_cking-lutely not interested in having a significant other.

[frodo10]

This is a false equivalence. Stalin had many composers assassinated because they were considered intellectuals (e.g. Mykola Leontovych) and therefore a danger to his regime. Rach_forever and I are arguing that a competition should be "abolished" because of its unfairness (among other things) and advocating for a replacement that would fulfill the same purpose but without any of the flaws (or at least with fewer of them).

Okay!  Cool! 

"advocating for a replacement that would fulfill the same purpose but without any of the flaws (or at least with fewer of them)."

Now you're talking!  Good luck with that!   

[liszt-and-the-galops]

Okay!  Cool! 

"advocating for a replacement that would fulfill the same purpose but without any of the flaws (or at least with fewer of them)."

Now you're talking!  Good luck with that!   

And the point of this reply was...?

[frodo10]

And the point of this reply was...?

I asked: "Would you abolish the competition if you had the authority to do so?  If yes - what does this say about you as a person.  If no - why not?"

You then replied to my question by saying:
"I would definitely abolish it and replace it with something else (again, probably a competition revolving around Liszt or Czerny, or simply a broader "Polish Composers Competition")"

Rach replied to my question by saying: "Yeah I’d abolish it and turn it into a festival"

These were in response to my question shown above.  You were saying, as I took it, that if you had the authority (as in a dictator), you would abolish it!  Who else would have the authority to abolish a contest except for a dictator??

Now you are saying you would instead:
"[You would advocate] for a replacement that would fulfill the same purpose but without any of the flaws (or at least with fewer of them).

This is a completely different thing.  Advocating for something compared to abolishing something as a dictator would.

Can you see what I am saying here?

[liszt-and-the-galops]

Who else would have the authority to abolish a contest except for a dictator??

lots of things. It's held in Poland, so the Polish government could simply choose to ban it from being held there. It would probably be relocated to France, but what if the French government then bans it? This is just one example.

This is a completely different thing.  Advocating for something compared to abolishing something as a dictator would.

...

We would abolish the competition if we had the authority. We are advocating for a replacement.

Those aren't the same tense.

[frodo10]

Lots of things. It's held in Poland, so the Polish government could simply choose to ban it from being held there. It would probably be relocated to France, but what if the French government then bans it? This is just one example.
...

We would abolish the competition if we had the authority. We are advocating for a replacement.

Those aren't the same tense.

Okay. So if you were a dictator and had the ability to abolish a contest, even though millions of people love the contest, you would abolish it.  Stalin style except you would not execute people.  What would you do if the contest was held anyway without your permission?  Would you arrest everyone in attendance?  How would you enforce that the contest was abolished?  Have you thought this through all the way??

[liszt-and-the-galops]

Okay. So if you were a dictator and had the ability to abolish a contest, even though millions of people love the contest, you would abolish it.  Stalin style except you would not execute people.

You are continuing to ignore the fact that we would replace it with something else that would fulfill the same purpose without any of the drawbacks. Both Rach_forever and I have stated this multiple times.

What would you do if the contest was held anyway without your permission?  ...  How would you enforce that the contest was abolished?

What are they going to do if the venue is being used for a "Liszt Competition," "Czerny Competition," "Polish Composers Competition," "Chopin Festival," or something along those lines? And if they decide to move the competition to another country, then it's not like the Polish government is going to try to enforce its own laws in France (or wherever it would be moved to).

[frodo10]

You are continuing to ignore the fact that we would replace it with something else that would fulfill the same purpose without any of the drawbacks. Both Rach_forever and I have stated this multiple times.
What are they going to do if the venue is being used for a "Liszt Competition," "Czerny Competition," "Polish Composers Competition," "Chopin Festival," or something along those lines? And if they decide to move the competition to another country, then it's not like the Polish government is going to try to enforce its own laws in France (or wherever it would be moved to).

What would the people of Poland do if suddenly their beloved competition was abolished by a dictator and replaced by a contest of the dictator's liking?  The masses disagree with you and they resent authoritarian rule.  They rise up in protest.  How will you handle this?

Anyway - I can see this is going nowhere.  I feel good that you and Rach are not in a position of authority and never will be - just that simple.

as it stands now, is Poland under authoritarian rule?

As of late 2025, Poland is not under authoritarian rule, but its democratic health is a topic of intense political struggle. Following the 2023 parliamentary election, Poland began a process of democratic restoration, reversing the authoritarian practices that emerged during the previous government's eight-year rule. However, the election of a president supported by the former ruling party has created a new, challenging political dynamic.

[liszt-and-the-galops]

What would the people of Poland do if suddenly their beloved competition was abolished by a dictator and replaced by a contest of the dictator's liking?  The masses disagree with you and they resent authoritarian rule.  They rise up in protest.  How will you handle this?

LMFAO, I guarantee you that most people in Poland haven't even heard of the Chopin Competition. And again, why are you assuming that it's a dictator and not just the regular Polish government? I'm "pretending" to be the Polish government for you weird thought exercises because, well, I don't know why it's your thought exercise lmao.

*stuff pasted from predictive text that has nothing to do with the conversation at hand.*

Predictive text slop about the current situation in Poland has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

Either you can acknowledge that you're misinterpreting what Rach_forever and I are saying or you can drop the conversation. The choice is yours; though know that I won't be entertaining any more of your attempts to change the subject of the argument from one that you already lost to one that you think you can win.

[frodo10]

LMFAO, I guarantee you that most people in Poland haven't even heard of the Chopin Competition. And again, why are you assuming that it's a dictator and not just the regular Polish government? I'm "pretending" to be the Polish government for you weird thought exercises because, well, I don't know why it's your thought exercise lmao.
Predictive text slop about the current situation in Poland has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

Either you can acknowledge that you're misinterpreting what Rach_forever and I are saying or you can drop the conversation. The choice is yours; though know that I won't be entertaining any more of your attempts to change the subject of the argument from one that you already lost to one that you think you can win.

I can see this is going nowhere, as I stated before.  I hope we can at least agree that this is going nowhere. If we can't at least agree to this, that's okay too. I think we are from different planets is some respects.  Time to pull the plug here.  You can have the last word now.  Thanks. 

[gasplamey]

Tangentially related, but this is why I get confused when someone dismisses Liszt as a composer or claims that they don't like anything by him; with him quite possibly being the composer with the largest number of pieces (and if not, certainly being in the top 10), it's statistically impossible for someone to not like any of his pieces.

And yet.

Rach and you would disregard the feelings of many millions and make a decision to abolish something as a dictator would.

Ok thats a massives logical leap,.

And I would ask that you reflect on you dictatorial impulses.  Do you guys have wives, children?

Ur just attacking latg at this poiisnt.

Like i agree with yhou that abolishnikg it is dumb becausje chopin is the seconsd besta composer, but thea way ur arguing is isnaen.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

What would the people of Poland do if suddenly their beloved competition was abolished by a dictator and replaced by a contest of the dictator's liking?  The masses disagree with you and they resent authoritarian rule.  They rise up in protest.  How will you handle this?

Anyway - I can see this is going nowhere.  I feel good that you and Rach are not in a position of authority and never will be - just that simple.

as it stands now, is Poland under authoritarian rule?

As of late 2025, Poland is not under authoritarian rule, but its democratic health is a topic of intense political struggle. Following the 2023 parliamentary election, Poland began a process of democratic restoration, reversing the authoritarian practices that emerged during the previous government's eight-year rule. However, the election of a president supported by the former ruling party has created a new, challenging political dynamic.

Idk if you’re trolling or you’re actually just stupid

[thorn]

Now that Messiaen competition I would go a long way to listen to.

Yes, it's a shame it ended! It's a good model for how to run a competition around a single composer because sure each round requires Messiaen pieces, and there's a Messiaen piano/orchestra work in the final, but they balance that with 1) composers/works Messiaen admired, and 2) composers who either directly studied with or took advice/influence from Messiaen. This could easily translate to Chopin or any other composer you want to name a competition after.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Yes, it's a shame it ended! It's a good model for how to run a competition around a single composer because sure each round requires Messiaen pieces, and there's a Messiaen piano/orchestra work in the final, but they balance that with 1) composers/works Messiaen admired, and 2) composers who either directly studied with or took advice/influence from Messiaen. This could easily translate to Chopin or any other composer you want to name a competition after.

I like that but instead of a comp just pay all the performers lol