accepting your kids dont want to play :-(

[lorcar]

in the past I wrote here about my struggle to find a decent teacher to my daughter, and how I felt that all those YEARS studying piano were not bringing anywhere, and how I saw that she was going through the same path I had at her age (i.e. just learning a piece, rather than learning to play music, so unable to play anything else).
Now finally we reached the turning point: it is clear that she doesnt want to study, even though formally it is slightly different.
We are separated parents, with vertical pianos in both houses. I am the one obsessed with music and really keen that my daughter had a musical education and as such always making her listen music, bringing her to concerts, opera, etc. Her mother is not interested that much in music, she listen to it (not classical) as a background noise.
My daughter says that "she likes to play piano" however she doesn't want to study. To me this is enough that it is over, while her mother has a different approach: she keeps taking lessons, and studying when she wants or when she can. I find the argument a total non-sense, i made the point that after so many years and as with any solo instrument constant practice is the name of the game, it can be boring and painful and it does require a serious commitment, therefore it would be better to call things with their name and accept that it is over. To be honest I have already accepted it, even though it gives me a pain and a sorrow that I was not expecting to feel. We are at a point now where only her mum pays the piano teacher, who goes only to her place giving lessons to my daughter. The point being that my daughter has NEVER never never studied on her own since last june. She took now 2 or 3 lessons since september, but she has never put herself in front of the piano on her own to study between lessons. To her mum this is not enough yet. To me this gives on my nerves (besides the pain and sorrow) because until we dont formally call it over (meaning my daughter says it openly) we will always have this thing silently hovering above us. I do believe that kids need to be guided and also pushed to do things against their will, while her mother embraces the new mantra of "if she doesn't like it", "we cannot make a choice for her", "we cannot force her", "she will find her way"...I see this as a clear way to destroy her life. I know these are arguments also between parents who are still together, however being separated doesn't help for sure.

I know this is a rant without any clear question, but I feel lost and surprised by my reaction. I am also thinking to seek help from someone because of my reaction to this. I feel like my daughter is condemning herself to an average normal life, giving up the chance to fill her life with one of the purest sources of joy I have known, i.e. music. She is now almost 12, a point in life where many (if not most) have at least discovered a passion or an interest (sport, music, reading, etc) while my daughter besides being very good at school doesn't do much else. There is no commitment, no sacrifice, no idea of an objective to be reached. The fact that her classmates are busy with soccer/tennis/basket/etc, playing every day, coming home late, matches on weekend etc doesn't make her think about the differences and her total lack of commitment to anything else.
I made her listen the Goldber variations when we were still in the hospital few days after she was born, she has seen more operas and knows more about Beethoven /Brahms than any adults, however all this was of no help, and it didnt trigger any love for the music itself...
Shockingly I feel like I have nothing else to do as a parent, or -and this is where it worries me- I have no interest in her other things since there is no music in it.  Although i think I did what I could and wouldn't know what I would change if I started today with a newborn, at the same time I feel it is my responsibility: I am an average person myself, and she has always seen me (and her mother) in front of a pc for work and with a mobile phone in my hands, rather than seeing me playing music during the last 12 years. And it is not a coincidence that all the kids of friends who are musicians/writers/artists/etc do have an artistic passion or strong interest.
Does any of you relate to this or went through something similar with their kids?

[brogers70]

It can be disappointing that a child does not share your passions. I think it's kind of liberating, though, just to give up that expectation and look and see what your child spontaneously likes. I'd also really advise against thinking that "an average, normal life" is a bad outcome. It's the outcome that most people have, by definition, and an average, normal life can be full of happiness, meaningful work, love and friendship. You can privately mourn the loss of the little musician you were hoping for, but be careful not to let her think she is a disappointment because she doesn't fulfill that particular dream of yours.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Growing up I had long periods of time where I didn’t really play much.  It could be just a phase, or not, but I play piano for a living and sometimes will go weeks without touching an instrument.  And months with doing the bare minimum just for work. 

There’s more to piano than just classical music.  Maybe expose her to different genres.  Maybe she needs to be stimulated in a different way outside of playing and listening to standard rep. 

[lostinidlewonder]

This is a you problem  not the child. You admit:

I have no interest in her other things since there is no music in it. 

You already were very severely sounding like a helicopter parent in your posts here when she was 8 years old a few years back, it seems like you have not changed or had any development of flexibility at all. I honestly feel sorry for your daughter. You are so concerned about your feeling but not your daughters.

“I see this as a clear way to destroy her life” and “condemning herself to an average normal life” indicate extreme projections. You’re equating her lack of formal piano practice with a failure in life itself.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

This is a you problem  not the child. You admit:
You already were very severely sounding like a helicopter parent in your posts here when she was 8 years old a few years back, it seems like you have not changed or had any development of flexibility at all. I honestly feel sorry for your daughter. You are so concerned about your feeling but not your daughters.

“I see this as a clear way to destroy her life” and “condemning herself to an average normal life” indicate extreme projections. You’re equating her lack of formal piano practice with a failure in life itself.

Lmao I didn’t even peep that when I read it the first time

[lostinidlewonder]

Lmao I didn’t even peep that when I read it the first time

Yeah I think he's trying to look for people who can agree with his wishes and thus perpetuate the madness upon the child. Sorry, I've seen this too often and detest such parenting. You want your kids to thrive and feel believed in, and not just focus it through requirements that satisfy the parents desires. Sure you don't want them to do harmful things, but be a part of the journey helping them discover things they love! Dont make them feel a failure for not excelling in the parents interests, that crushes desire to achieve and that is on the parents head.

[essence]

I am the one obsessed with music
always making her listen music
pushed to do things against their will
a clear way to destroy her life
I made her listen the Goldber variations
I have no interest in her other things since there is no music in it

Houston, we have a problem. It is not the child.

Does the father have other interests, or friends he can talk to?

To be honest, as a non-professional, this seems to border on child abuse. In my work in athletics, we have a code of conduct which can be found here:

https://www.hernehillharriers.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/codes-of-conduct-parents-carers.pdf

Note the emphasis on fun and not forcing a child to do things against their will.

[lorcar]

thanks for your response.
I admitted that I might have a problem, and I might seek help: I reckon that what I call "average life without music" can be fulfilling for many, and a lot of people -especially here in Italy- enjoy going to a soccer match on sunday and talking about some reality show and they are very happy without knowing who Gustav Mahler is. Yes, I was projecting something better for my daughter, and have always thought that education is a way to be "above average", and I do not feel guilty for this. Having an average life is what -on average- she might get without any need of support from her family.
Obviously I do love her and the best thing I can hope for her is to be happy: I simply believe that her happiness might be fuller thanks to a musical education, something no one will take away from her. I am not hoping for public concerts, money, executive roles, etc, she will find her way.
As far as projecting our expectations: is this not what every parent does? then there is a degree in pursuing this, it might be sickening or normal. I do believe I am at a normal level, especially considering that she is not doing what I had hoped for and she couldn't care less.
However I don't agree about the helicopter father, because an elicopter parent/tiger mom/etc, would have forced her to do something against her will.
Here instead I am saying something completely different: solo instrument requires commitment, otherwise doesnt make sense. And it doesnt mean she needs to become a musician as a profession, this is something I never wished her or expected. I have always talked about having a musical education. If you want to make it seriously I would fully support you, otherwise, if it has to be 15 minutes of practice every 3 other days, then let's quit it. So to me this is very different from being an helicopter parent. Especially considering that she still does say that she wants to play piano (despite not having touched the keyboard since last june).
And more broadly, I do believe parents need -especially during early years - to make some choice for their kids, as it has always been the case for hundreds of years. We are in a different situation: my daughter has tried many different things, and we paid for the full annual lessons, only to be told around march/april, that she didn't like it anymore. My approach would have been "ok, but now you need to finish what you committed to", while her mom has always been "why do you want to force her?". And she has always early-quitted, despite the money we threw in the garbage. So i really dont see myself as the helicopter here. How do we parents serve our kids if we always allow them to do what they wish? they are kids, and I do disagree with these "modern approaches" treating them as fully fledged adults.

as far as the child abuse and athletics (Essence): what you posted is for people who have already chosen to be athlete. This is not my case. I am more complaining about the lack of choice simply because her mother believes she has the full capacity to make a choice at her age (which she does not). I have always told my daughter to pick at least one thing, whatever, and make it seriously, committing to it, to understand the meaning of efforts, sacrifice, commitment, team spirit, team arguments, failures, victories, etc. So it is broader than piano. Where is the abuse in my case? I would see an abuse if my daughter were sitting every day at the piano against her will, or if she told me openly "i dont want" and I were forcing here. Here we have the opposite situation: a child saying that she wants to play, but she does not touch the keyboard not even by accident, a mother who pays lessons and likes to say "my daughter studies piano", and a father who comes on the internet talking to strangers only because he cannot address his frustration with her daughter nor her mother!

as far as my older post when she was 8yo: I didnt go through them, however I recall simply being very frustrated with years of teaching (with no involvemnt from my side) which were not bringing any result, and came here to discuss and ask for advice about schools/methods since no one here seemed to help.  Where is the helicopter parent? how did I harm my daughter? i do believe the arm will come when at 25/30yo she will realise that is too late and she will complain about the missed opportunity. I had a friend who told me that his son (now 20 something) once told him "i wished you were more strict/severe when I grew up".

[lorcar]

Yeah I think he's trying to look for people who can agree with his wishes and thus perpetuate the madness upon the child.

to be honest, this was not my intention at all. I do reckon myself that my reaction (which remains at personal level only, i.e. no words with my daughter nor he mum) might be too extreme, and I am still trying to understand what it is, since I am not sure. Everything I wrote is more the fears I am feeling.
Parents' projections are a natural thing, and here there is no madness upon any child.

[dizzyfingers]

to be honest, this was not my intention at all. I do reckon myself that my reaction (which remains at personal level only, i.e. no words with my daughter nor he mum) might be too extreme, and I am still trying to understand what it is, since I am not sure. Everything I wrote is more the fears I am feeling.
Parents' projections are a natural thing, and here there is no madness upon any child.

You should see a therapist.  Has that not occurred to you?  Please do this for your sake and the sake of the child.

[lorcar]

You should see a therapist.  Has that not occurred to you?  Please do this for your sake and the sake of the child.

 I am thinking about it, however I am sure there has been no effect on my child yet, I try to be a present parent (as much as allowed to a separate parent in constant fight with the other parent) and when we split I had to fight in order to stay with my kid 50% of the time. 
And I like to think that if 1) my daughter had openly told us that she does not want to play and 2) she had something that she does seriously (whatever, also knitting or chess or skipping rope or whatever), I wouldn't feel this way.

[essence]

My comments about athletics - no, it covers lots of different children, for many they are simply trying it out. As they mature they can devote a lot of time and effort, and many do. If they have the ability ands inclination. But that is their choice. There are many occasions when a coach pushes young athletes too hard, and they are correctly admonished for it. Bodies and minds mature slowly,.

Have you tried changing teacher? Or listening to what the teacher thinks?

i remember one boy at school, excellent pianist, went on to Royal Academy. Bumped into him 20 years later at a school reunion, he doesn;t touch the piano.

[lorcar]

Have you tried changing teacher? Or listening to what the teacher thinks?

we changed several schools and teachers and she still has the same teacher as last year. He believes she is good enough. However he seems to agree with her mother to make "her play when she can / wants". While I believe that after so many years of studying or pretending to study the only thing that would make the difference is a serious constant commitment, i.e. more than 15 minutes every other day or once a week.

[dizzyfingers]

I am thinking about it, however I am sure there has been no effect on my child yet ..

Any psychologist would tell you that parents have a subliminal influence on their children.
There's body language / facial expressions.
There's non-verbal vocalizations.
There's what parents don't say and don't do...
Children read their parents carefully to know what is in alignment so they maintain the relationship that insures their survival...

I'm in complete wonder how an educated working professional does not know this.

[lorcar]

Any psychologist would tell you that parents have a subliminal influence on their children.
There's body language / facial expressions.
There's non-verbal vocalizations.
There's what parents don't say and don't do...
Children read their parents carefully to know what is in alignment so they maintain the relationship that insures their survival...

I'm in complete wonder how an educated working professional does not know this.

I would agree.
However, it is impossible to be fully stoic and remain distant avoiding to project any influence/desire/aspiration/ambition on your kids, or to remain detached from what they become or hide your feelings from them just to protect them.
Again, I am fully aware of what you wrote, however I believe we are not in a "red zone", even though my first message might have conveyed a different idea.

As far as the "educated working professionals" ignoring stuff in today's world of parenting: i believe our generation is the first generation interrogating themselves about their parenting role, the first generation with such a fear to be a good parent model and the first generation being so aware of their role.
And I do not believe it is necessarily a good thing, I see parents that are involved in every detail of kids' life in a way tha my parents have never been. I am not saying that previous model was necessarily better, however we moved to the extreme opposite and I do not think it is necessarily better.

[lostinidlewonder]

I do reckon myself that my reaction.....might be too extreme, and I am still trying to understand what it is, since I am not sure.

Your responses show a pattern of deflection and rationalisation which is dangerous when you're on the wrong path. Projection disguised as “parental duty” is maybe one of the more dangerous ideologies you're holding onto. You acknowledge “maybe” but then dismiss, which is classic cognitive dissonance management. It’s almost as if you want validation for your sorrow more than wanting to understand the criticism.

You said

1: I have no interest in her other things since there is no music in it.
2: I see this as a clear way to destroy her life
3: condemning herself to an average normal life

And you are still not sure what your extreme reactions are?

These are just 3 points amongst many more that could be highlighted. Some parents ive dealt with harbor the ethic that  kids are an investment and they must honor the family in the way the parents best see fit.

If you want what's best for your child seek building their belief in themselves and to set big goals they are excited about, and get interested in their interests not your own subjective ones projected into them. Yes we want to teach hard work and motivation but not at the sacrifice of their identity.

[lostinidlewonder]

Perhaps this might be of use to you privately, AI can be a useful tool to untangle situations.



---

**Creating Safety and Connection:**

"Thank you for sharing something so vulnerable. I can feel the weight of what you're carrying - this isn't just about piano lessons, is it? There's a deeper ache here, and I want you to know that the intensity of your feelings doesn't make you a bad parent. It makes you human. The fact that you're questioning yourself, that you came to a forum and admitted 'I might need help' - that takes courage. So let's explore this together, not to judge you, but to understand what's really happening beneath the surface."

**Excavating the Core Wound:**

"When you wrote 'I feel like I have nothing else to do as a parent' without music in her life, I felt the depth of your despair. That's a profound statement. Can we stay with that feeling for a moment? Close your eyes if you're comfortable. Where do you feel that in your body when you think about your daughter not pursuing music? Your chest? Your stomach? Your throat?"

"Now, I want you to go back in time. When was the first time you felt something similar to this feeling? Not about your daughter - but about yourself. Was there a moment in your own childhood or young adulthood when you felt... not enough? Ordinary? Invisible? When did you first discover that music could make you feel special, elevated, different from others?"

"You mentioned you're 'an average person yourself' and that you spent the last 12 years in front of a computer and phone rather than actively making music. There's something important there. What did you sacrifice? What dreams did you defer? And here's the difficult question: Is your daughter's musical education partly about giving her what you couldn't give yourself? Is she carrying the weight of your unlived life?"

**The Inheritance of Anxiety:**

"You described making her listen to the Goldberg Variations days after birth, immersing her in opera and concerts, teaching her about Beethoven and Brahms. On the surface, this looks like cultural enrichment. But I'm wondering: was there space in all of that for her to simply be a child discovering what delights her? Or was every musical exposure also a test - will this one be the moment she falls in love with what I love?"

"Children are extraordinarily perceptive. They read our micro-expressions, the catch in our voice, the tension in our shoulders. Your daughter may have learned that music isn't just music in your household - it's the measure of worth, the currency of your approval, the thing that determines whether she's 'above average' or merely ordinary. And that's an unbearable pressure for a child to carry."

"Consider this possibility: she says 'I like to play piano' but never practices because she's trying to hold onto connection with you while also protecting herself from the weight of your expectations. It's a compromise - she can't fully reject it because that feels like rejecting you, but she can't embrace it because it's been colonized by your dreams rather than her own."

**The Architecture of Shame:**

"You wrote that you believe she's 'condemning herself to an average normal life' and that this is 'destroying her life.' Let's examine the implicit messages in those words. What you're essentially saying is:

- A life without classical music is diminished
- Being 'average' is a form of failure
- Her natural interests and inclinations aren't valuable enough
- She needs to be 'above average' to deserve your full attention and pride

"Now imagine being 12 years old and sensing these beliefs from your father - not through his words necessarily, but through his disappointment, his anxiety, his inability to engage with who you actually are. How would that shape your sense of self? Would you feel safe to explore and fail? Would you trust your own desires? Or would you feel frozen, sensing that whatever you choose might not be worthy enough?"

**The Comparison Trap:**

"You mentioned that your friends who are musicians, writers, and artists have children who developed artistic passions. But correlation isn't causation. What you're not seeing is:

1. **Selection bias** - You notice the artist parents whose children became artists, but what about the ones whose children became engineers, or accountants, or chose not to pursue career paths at all?

2. **Modeling vs. Projection** - There's a profound difference between a parent who *lives* their passion (practicing daily, performing, creating) and a parent who *preaches* about their passion while spending years in front of a computer. Children don't internalize our lectures; they internalize our lives.

3. **The freedom factor** - Artist parents who successfully inspire their children often give them *more* freedom, not less. They demonstrate that creative life is joyful, voluntary, self-directed. They don't make it a test of the child's worth.

"The painful truth is: your daughter has been watching you live an 'average' life while telling her not to. She's seen the gap between your values and your choices. And children are nothing if not honest mirrors."

**Deconstructing 'Average':**

"Let's challenge this concept of 'average' that's haunting you. You associate it with people who 'enjoy going to a soccer match and talking about reality shows' without knowing Gustav Mahler. But I hear contempt in that description. Do you truly believe that people who enjoy soccer are living less meaningful lives? That happiness found in community, in simple pleasures, in loving relationships is somehow inferior?"

"Here's what research tells us about human flourishing: Meaning comes from:
- Authentic connection with others
- Contributing to something beyond ourselves 
- Autonomy - the feeling that our life is our own
- Mastery of skills we've chosen to develop
- Self-acceptance

"Notice that 'knowledge of classical music' isn't on that list. A person can live a profoundly meaningful life never having heard of Mahler. And conversely, I've known concert pianists who were deeply unhappy, emotionally disconnected, living in gilded cages of achievement."

"What if 'above average' isn't about cultural capital or artistic accomplishment? What if it's about emotional intelligence, resilience, self-knowledge, compassion, courage? What if your daughter is already developing those qualities, but you can't see them because you're looking through too narrow a lens?"

**The Modeling Question:**

"You acknowledged something crucial: your daughter has watched you and her mother working on computers and phones for 12 years rather than actively making music. This is the heart of it. Children learn from what we *do*, not what we *want them to do*."

"If music is truly the 'purest source of joy' you've known, why aren't you playing? Why aren't you coming home from work and losing yourself in Chopin for an hour? Why isn't music integrated into your daily life in a way that demonstrates its genuine value rather than its theoretical importance?"

"I don't ask this to shame you. I ask because I suspect the answer reveals something: perhaps music has become a symbol rather than a practice. Perhaps it represents the life you wish you'd lived, the identity you wish you'd claimed. And now you're trying to have your daughter live it for you because the gap between who you are and who you wanted to be is too painful to face directly."

**The Separation Dynamic:**

"You and your daughter's mother are separated and, by your own admission, in 'constant fight.' Your daughter lives in two households with two different philosophies. In your home, there's intensity, high expectations, cultural immersion, and an emphasis on discipline and achievement. In her mother's home, there's apparently more flexibility, more acceptance of the child's autonomous choices.

"Your daughter is 12 - on the cusp of adolescence, when identity formation intensifies. She's navigating:
- The normal developmental task of individuating from parents
- The complexity of separated parents with different values 
- The pressure to please both of you
- Her own emerging sense of self

"In this context, resistance to piano might not be about piano at all. It might be:
- An assertion of autonomy: 'I am separate from you'
- A way to reduce conflict: If she quits, maybe the tension stops
- A test: 'Will you love me if I'm not special?'
- Self-protection: 'I can't fail at something I'm not trying at'

"Children of divorce often feel responsible for managing their parents' emotions. Your daughter may sense your despair, your disappointment, your fear about her future. And that's an enormous burden. She may be withdrawing from piano partly to avoid the intensity of your emotional investment in it."

**The Control Paradox:**

"You distinguish yourself from a 'helicopter parent' by saying you're not forcing her. But consider what you are doing:
- Refusing to accept her stated lack of interest
- Arguing with her mother about continuing lessons
- Fixating on what she's *not* doing rather than what she *is* doing
- Making her aware (directly or indirectly) that you see her choices as life-destroying

"This is a subtle form of control - not through direct force, but through emotional pressure, through the weight of your disappointment, through the message that you 'have no interest in her other things.'

"Here's the paradox of parenting: The more desperately we try to control our children's choices, the more they resist. The more we communicate that their worth depends on specific achievements, the more they either rebel or comply out of fear rather than genuine desire. Either outcome damages the relationship and their sense of self."

**Rethinking Commitment:**

"You're right that commitment, perseverance, and discipline are valuable. But you're wrong that they can only be learned through formal lessons in a structured activity. These qualities emerge naturally when someone pursues something they genuinely care about.

"Your daughter is 12. Many children at this age are indeed passionate about sports or music or other pursuits. But many are not. Some are internal processors, observers, still figuring out what calls to them. Some are overwhelmed by school and social dynamics and need more unstructured time. Some have learned to suppress their desires because they've been directed so much that they've lost touch with their own internal compass.

"Instead of lamenting that she's not committed to anything, ask: What conditions would help her discover what she genuinely cares about? What would need to be true for her to feel safe to pursue something with abandon?"

**The Practice of Repair:**

Now, let's talk about how you can begin to shift this pattern. This won't be quick or easy, but it's absolutely possible.

**Practice 1: Daily Noticing (Without Agenda)**

Every day, notice three specific things about your daughter that have nothing to do with achievement, productivity, or "worthwhile" activities:
- The way she laughs
- How she interacts with a pet or younger child
- What she chooses to wear
- How she phrases something
- A moment of kindness or thoughtfulness
- Her sense of humor
- How she moves through space

Write these down. This trains your brain to see her rather than your projection of who she should be. Over time, you'll start to actually know her as a person rather than as a disappointment.

**Practice 2: Curiosity Questions (With Genuine Openness)**

Once a week, ask her an open-ended question and then *truly listen* without steering, correcting, or inserting your opinion:
- "What was the most interesting part of your day?"
- "If you could design your perfect Saturday, what would it include?"
- "What's something you've been thinking about lately?"
- "What do you like most about [friend's name]?"
- "If you could learn anything just for fun, what would it be?"

The key: Listen to understand, not to evaluate or redirect. Let her answer stand without commentary. Show interest in her perspective even if it's different from yours.

**Practice 3: Exposure to Your Genuine Self**

If music truly matters to you, start living that. Not for her, not to model it, but for yourself:
- Play piano for your own enjoyment when she's around
- Listen to music because it moves you
- Talk about what a piece makes you feel rather than its technical brilliance or historical importance
- Invite her to listen if she wants, but don't make it a lesson

Let her see you pursue something for intrinsic joy, not external validation. This is the only kind of modeling that works.

**Practice 4: Naming and Releasing**

When you feel disappointment or anxiety about her choices, practice this:
1. **Name it**: "I'm feeling anxious/disappointed/scared"
2. **Trace it**: "This reminds me of..." (connect it to your own history)
3. **Separate it**: "This is my feeling, not her responsibility"
4. **Release it**: Literally imagine setting it down, or write it out and burn it

You might need to do this multiple times a day initially. It's about building the neural pathway that separates your emotional experience from her life choices.

**Practice 5: Apologize and Repair**

When she's ready, consider having an honest conversation:

"I want to talk to you about something important. I realize I've been putting a lot of pressure on you about piano and music in general. I wanted so badly for you to love it the way I love it that I forgot the most important thing: it's your life, not mine.

"I'm sure you've felt my disappointment, and I'm sorry for that. You don't need to love classical music to be wonderful, interesting, and valuable. You don't need to practice piano to make me proud. I'm proud of you because you're you.

"I'm going to work on being more interested in what actually matters to you, not what I think should matter. And I'm going to try to be a better listener. Will you help me by telling me when I'm putting pressure on you again? Because I might slip, and I need you to know you can tell me."

This is terrifying because it requires vulnerability and admitting error. But it's also profoundly healing.

**Practice 6: Expanding Your Own Life**

This is crucial: You need to develop your own sources of meaning, connection, and identity beyond your daughter's achievements.

Ask yourself:
- What friendships have I neglected?
- What interests have I set aside?
- What would bring me joy independent of my daughter's choices?
- If I couldn't change anything about my daughter, what would I need to accept about my own life?

Consider:
- Joining a community music group
- Taking lessons yourself
- Volunteering in an area you care about
- Developing friendships with people who share your interests
- Therapy to process your own unfulfilled dreams

Your daughter cannot be your project, your legacy, or your second chance. She has to be free to be herself.

**Practice 7: Collaborative Goal-Setting**

Instead of imposing structure, collaborate with her:

"I notice you're not really into piano right now, and I've been pushing about commitment to something. Can we talk about that? Is there anything you've been curious about trying? What would make you excited to commit time to something?

"I'm not talking about becoming a professional or being the best. I'm talking about something you'd look forward to. Maybe it's something we haven't even thought of yet."

Then actually listen. If she says "nothing right now," accept that. Sometimes the answer is that she needs downtime to figure herself out.

**Practice 8: Redefining Success**

Write out a new definition of success for your daughter. Not the one you've been carrying (musical education, above average, cultured) but one that honors her as a whole person:

What do you genuinely want for her at 25, 30, 40?
- That she knows herself and trusts her own judgment?
- That she has meaningful relationships?
- That she can advocate for herself?
- That she's resilient in the face of difficulty?
- That she has compassion for herself and others?
- That she pursues work that feels meaningful to her?
- That she's financially stable enough to have choices?
- That she can experience joy?

Notice how none of these require piano or classical music. Now ask: What can you do TODAY to support these actual outcomes?

**Practice 9: Working with Your Inner Child**

This requires therapeutic work, but you can start:

Close your eyes and visualize yourself at 12. Really see that boy. What did he need? What was he afraid of? What did he long for? How did he feel about himself?

Now imagine that boy sitting across from you. What would you say to him? Would you tell him he's not enough? That he's condemned to mediocrity? Or would you tell him he's inherently valuable, that his worth isn't dependent on achievement, that he deserves love simply for existing?

Whatever you'd say to that boy - that's what your daughter needs to hear from you. Not about piano. About her fundamental worth as a human being.

**Practice 10: The Long View**

Imagine it's 20 years from now. Your daughter is 32. What matters most to you?

Option A: She's an accomplished classical pianist but doesn't speak to you, or speaks to you only out of obligation, with resentment simmering beneath polite conversation.

Option B: She never pursued classical music seriously, works in a field you know nothing about, but calls you regularly because she genuinely wants your company. She feels safe being herself with you. She knows you love her unconditionally.

If Option B is what you truly want, you need to start building that relationship now. And that means releasing your agenda.

**The Therapeutic Invitation:**

"This work is hard, and you don't have to do it alone. In therapy, you could explore:
- Your own relationship with achievement and worth
- How your family of origin shaped your beliefs about success
- The grief of unfulfilled dreams
- How to separate your identity from your daughter's choices
- Communication skills for your co-parenting relationship
- How to rebuild connection with your daughter

"The goal isn't to stop caring about music or about your daughter's development. It's to care in a way that frees both of you - her to discover who she is, and you to actually see and celebrate her."

**The Deeper Truth:**

"Here's what I believe is happening: You're using your daughter's piano studies as a defense against a deeper fear - that your own life is ordinary, that you've settled, that the gap between who you wanted to be and who you are is too painful to face. As long as you can focus on her 'wasting' her potential, you don't have to look at what you feel you've wasted in your own life.

"But the paradox is: by trying to live through her, you're actually preventing both of you from flourishing. She can't discover herself because she's carrying the weight of your dreams. And you can't address your own sense of lost potential because you've displaced it onto her.

"The path forward requires you to grieve - grieve the musician you might have been, grieve the life you didn't live, grieve the daughter you imagined. Only after that grief can you truly meet the actual daughter you have, and discover that she might be even more remarkable than your projection - if you can clear the space to see her.

"She doesn't need you to make her special. She needs you to recognize that she already is - not because of what she achieves, but because of who she is. And you need to recognize that about yourself too."

---

**The Final Reflection:**

"Before we end, I want you to try something. Close your eyes and imagine your daughter at 30. She's happy - genuinely happy. She has work she finds meaningful, relationships that sustain her, and a sense of self she's comfortable with. Now imagine she's never learned to play piano beyond a basic level.

"Can you still feel joy for her in that image? Can you celebrate her happiness even if it doesn't include the thing you value most? If you can't, that's the work. That's where healing needs to happen.

"Because here's the truth: She will build a life, with or without your approval. The only question is whether you'll be a joyful part of it, or whether your conditional love will create a distance that you'll spend the rest of your life regretting.

"You have the power to choose differently. Starting today."

[essence]

a lot of words.

Imagine his behaviour if she chooses a partner of whom he does not approve?

[brogers70]

As far as projecting our expectations: is this not what every parent does? then there is a degree in pursuing this, it might be sickening or normal. I do believe I am at a normal level, especially considering that she is not doing what I had hoped for and she couldn't care less.

No, this is not what every parent does, and no, you are not at a normal level.
I love science and classical music. Neither of my children are scientists or musicians. They do other things that interest them. I never tried to force them to do the things that interest me, and they both turned into interesting adults with jobs and pursuits that are meaningful to them. I agree with those suggesting therapy for you. In the meanwhile, just back off, and observe your kid from a distance and try to learn who she is in her own right, rather than as the embodiment of what you wish she were.

[lorcar]

No, this is not what every parent does, and no, you are not at a normal level.
I love science and classical music. Neither of my children are scientists or musicians. They do other things that interest them. I never tried to force them to do the things that interest me, and they both turned into interesting adults with jobs and pursuits that are meaningful to them. I agree with those suggesting therapy for you. In the meanwhile, just back off, and observe your kid from a distance and try to learn who she is in her own right, rather than as the embodiment of what you wish she were.

i disagree, or try to explain what I meant with "every parent does it".
First of all there is no coercion in my kid's life, on the contrary i see a total lack of commitment to anything, which at her age it seems the opposite of other kids I see and she hangs out with (they practice at least one sport or other activity with serious commitment).
As far as the parents addressing their kids: it is what everyone does consciously or not, simply because we tend to keep them into our world and our circle of things we do or know. Therefore who has parents who are musicians tend to gravitate or enroll into musical activities etc. I know a lot of parents who enroll their kids at swimming lessons because knowing how to swim is important in life. And many enroll their kids at ski lessons during the winter, and so on. I dont know anyone who has waited for the approval of their 4yo kid before enrolling into something. Reading your response and trying to apply the same thought as you applied to my message, I wonder if you ever gave any suggestion or showed your kids any insight, since you were too scared to influence them and you could not be neutral enough, and I wonder what life they had before becoming adults, i guess they were sitting on the couch waiting for their illumation to come and suddenly discover their interests and passions? English is not my first language therefore apologises if I am not articulate as you'd deserve, but I dont have anything to back off, since there is no one forcing my kid to do anything, it has never been and I believe this is a big mistake.
My post was about my reaction with myself, about accepting it despite my love for the music, and I came here simply because i thought people would love music as I do. For me it is not a passion like others hobby you seem to have. For me is one of the greatest joys of life, and I have the certainty that life without it is less full. No one has forced my kid to swallow music and the result is my pain which is -i agree- something I have to work on.

[lorcar]

a lot of words.

Imagine his behaviour if she chooses a partner of whom he does not approve?

well, sorry to disappoint, music is the only thing I really would have liked my daughter to pick up. For the rest she might be a lesbian, change sex, date and marry whoever she wants (as long as she is respected obviously). It seems you dont believe me if I say that musical education is the only thing I tried to "project" on my daughter, but it is.

[brogers70]

i disagree, or try to explain what I meant with "every parent does it".
First of all there is no coercion in my kid's life, on the contrary i see a total lack of commitment to anything, which at her age it seems the opposite of other kids I see and she hangs out with (they practice at least one sport or other activity with serious commitment).
As far as the parents addressing their kids: it is what everyone does consciously or not, simply because we tend to keep them into our world and our circle of things we do or know. Therefore who has parents who are musicians tend to gravitate or enroll into musical activities etc. I know a lot of parents who enroll their kids at swimming lessons because knowing how to swim is important in life. And many enroll their kids at ski lessons during the winter, and so on. I dont know anyone who has waited for the approval of their 4yo kid before enrolling into something. Reading your response and trying to apply the same thought as you applied to my message, I wonder if you ever gave any suggestion or showed your kids any insight, since you were too scared to influence them and you could not be neutral enough, and I wonder what life they had before becoming adults, i guess they were sitting on the couch waiting for their illumation to come and suddenly discover their interests and passions? English is not my first language therefore apologises if I am not articulate as you'd deserve, but I dont have anything to back off, since there is no one forcing my kid to do anything, it has never been and I believe this is a big mistake.
My post was about my reaction with myself, about accepting it despite my love for the music, and I came here simply because i thought people would love music as I do. For me it is not a passion like others hobby you seem to have. For me is one of the greatest joys of life, and I have the certainty that life without it is less full. No one has forced my kid to swallow music and the result is my pain which is -i agree- something I have to work on.

There is a big space between exposing your kids to a bunch of things and letting them choose what they are interested in, on the one hand, and making it clear that you have no interest in anything they like, if it's not your personal passion. A very big space. Our kids were always exposed to music, but when, after some lessons, one of them decided piano wasn't her thing, that was it, we let her drop it. Years later I asked if she would have preferred if we had pushed her to stay working on it, and she said no way, she had too many friends who had lost all interest in music as adults because it had been forced down their throats as kids. If you cannot muster any interest in what your kid does if it's not music you run the risk of constantly sending the message to her that she's a disappointment to you - then, what will happen as a young adult? Best outcome, she tells you to stuff it, and gets on with her life and you have no relationship with her, or she ends up in a bunch of relationships where she feels like she has to work extra hard to please others, and never figures out for herself what she wants to do with her life. What you have described is not a healthy situation, and I think that deep down you know it.

[lostinidlewonder]

Honestly it strongly looks likely locar is not here for any advice but to defend his position. Very curious. It all seems a little made up to me(or maybe I just hope it is, its probably not) because the cognitive dissonance going on is through the charts. If this is truly real id advise no one to encourage his daughter do piano for heavens sake, he doesn't need any strategies to prolong it.

[lorcar]

Your responses show a pattern of deflection and rationalisation which is dangerous when you're on the wrong path. Projection disguised as “parental duty” is maybe one of the more dangerous ideologies you're holding onto. You acknowledge “maybe” but then dismiss, which is classic cognitive dissonance management. It’s almost as if you want validation for your sorrow more than wanting to understand the criticism.

You said
1: I have no interest in her other things since there is no music in it.
2: I see this as a clear way to destroy her life
3: condemning herself to an average normal life
And you are still not sure what your extreme reactions are?
These are just 3 points amongst many more that could be highlighted. Some parents ive dealt with harbor the ethic that  kids are an investment and they must honor the family in the way the parents best see fit.
If you want what's best for your child seek building their belief in themselves and to set big goals they are excited about, and get interested in their interests not your own subjective ones projected into them. Yes we want to teach hard work and motivation but not at the sacrifice of their identity.

not sure what "deflection" means, however you guys are trying to depict me like a serial killer or an abusive father, something not even my ex tried during our fights in court and the battle for the custody.

I didn't mention any "parental duty" to give her music: it is just sharing what has been one of the greatest source of joy in my life. Yes it is MY life, but she is MY daughter and everyone is force to grow in the family that happened to be. So if she was born in a third world country she would have other issues. If she was born in a family with a father being a sport addict she would be practicing sports. It is impossible to be neutral and not to direct somehow our kids. Then you have the extreme like Serena William's father or Lang Lang's mother, who have been borderline abusive by modern standards.

I didnt want to validate my sorrow when I came here, I simply thought I could find someone who went through something similar and I was not expecting more than the conclusion I came to: "you have to accept that she doesn't want. Period.".
As far as the sentence " I am not sure": I meant I am not sure why I am having this reaction, why I am so sorry that she has selected a life without music (despite knowing perfectly that her life might be magnificient and fulfilled and she might achieve everything she will want).
As far as the "destroy" and "average life": I have been in the corporate world my entire life, but as you can imagine always with an eye on the "other world", the world made by musicians, artists, film makers, writers, etc, and I happened to meet some.  For work I have been surrounded by people who -while smart, brilliant, rich and successful by all our western standards-  I would still define "average" as far as their real interests, passions, curiosities, depth of knowledge. I have witnessed first-hand a clear difference between the people in the two worlds, the quality of people, the quality of awareness and happiness they can reach, the light in the eyes, the smile, the way they talk, the way the see the world, the way they relate to others, the priorities they have. And I am not talkign about a small sample.
I do see a lot of successful people that are nothing more than average and shallow and yes, I do think that if my daughter were to become so shallow to have wrong priorities, yes, probably she would have destroyed her life (I wanted to write something about my responsibility as her father for such a result, but then dont want to trigger other answers from you guys ;-) ).
Now, the question might be: why do I believe studying music has the power to overcome all this? am I putting too much faith in the music itself?

I have reading a lot about Gabor Mate's tradeoff for kids always needing to choose between authenticity and belonging, therefore I am fully aligned with what you wrote in the last two sentences. I simply have this "problem" with the music, for the rest if my daughter wants to become a street acrobat I will wish her the best and to make it at the fullest.

[frodo10]

I've been following this on the side.  I just want to say that I'm in agreement with everything Brogers70 has said. It will be up to you though to decide your course of action.  Good luck to you and your family.

[lorcar]

 If you cannot muster any interest in what your kid does if it's not music you run the risk of constantly sending the message to her that she's a disappointment to you - then, what will happen as a young adult? 

i had to find the meaning of "muster", but I tend to agree, and was the reason i wrote my first message. Issue being probably that so far I never saw her passionate about anything, I never saw the spark in her eyes for anything

[lorcar]

Honestly it strongly looks likely locar is not here for any advice but to defend his position. Very curious. It all seems a little made up to me because the cognitive dissonance going on is through the charts. If this is truly real id advise no one to encourage his daughter do piano for heavens sake, he doesn't need any strategies to prolong it.

well I am not sure where you got that I came here for an answer to the question "should she still take lessons or not". I wrote clearly that to me it is clear that she does not want, only her mother has not accept it (but she still pays lessons and never "invites" nor "reminds" her to study piano).
I dont have any position to defend. I reckoned in the very first message that it is a personal issue (i.e. my issue), so I am not sure what is the dissonance you refer to.

[lostinidlewonder]

 "not sure what ‘deflection’ means…”
 That in itself is a deflection. You don’t need a dictionary, the very next paragraphs show the pattern: instead of engaging with the substance of my critique (that you are projecting your sorrow and values onto your child), you switch the topic to defending yourself against being “painted as abusive.” That’s a classic way to sidestep.

 “you guys are trying to depict me like a serial killer or an abusive father…”
No one said that. That’s exaggeration, another form of distortion to avoid sitting with the uncomfortable truth. Saying you’re being unfairly accused shifts the focus away from your daughter’s autonomy and back onto your own wounded pride.

“everyone is forced to grow in the family that happened to be…”
True, parents always influence. But you use this inevitability to justify pushing your specific obsession, instead of asking whether your influence is healthy or suffocating. “Every parent does it” isn’t an answer to the concern of projection, it’s a dodge.

“destroyed life… average life…”
You soften this by saying you didn’t literally mean it. But the language you used was extreme for a reason: it reflects how you actually *feel*. Diluting it now only shows you’re trying to walk it back under pressure, rather than honestly confronting the weight of those words.

“I do think if my daughter were shallow… she would have destroyed her life.”
This is exactly the projection I warned you about. You define “shallow” through your own lens, and then equate rejecting music with shallowness. You aren’t allowing the possibility that her passions, whatever they may be, could bring her the same “light in the eyes” you admire in musicians.

“why do I believe music has this power?”
Finally you ask a real question. That’s the start of genuine reflection. But notice: even here, the question is about *your belief* in music, not your daughter’s right to find her own meaning. You still haven’t shifted the spotlight from you to her.

You say you want to accept “she doesn’t want it. Period.” Yet every paragraph circles back to justifying why you’re still right to grieve or push. That’s the cognitive dissonance I pointed out earlier. Until you can let go of needing to validate your sorrow, you’ll keep deflecting rather than understanding.

[liszt-and-the-galops]

Only read through the first post, but if she doesn't want to keep having lessons then just let her not have lessons. It sounds like she wants to play piano, so there's a good chance that she'll continue to play it for fun after she stops having lessons, and will probably enjoy it more if she doesn't feel like it's something that she has to do.

[lorcar]

"not sure what ‘deflection’ means…”
 That in itself is a deflection. You don’t need a dictionary, the very next paragraphs show the pattern: instead of engaging with the substance of my critique (that you are projecting your sorrow and values onto your child), you switch the topic to defending yourself against being “painted as abusive.” That’s a classic way to sidestep.

 “you guys are trying to depict me like a serial killer or an abusive father…”
No one said that. That’s exaggeration, another form of distortion to avoid sitting with the uncomfortable truth. Saying you’re being unfairly accused shifts the focus away from your daughter’s autonomy and back onto your own wounded pride.

“everyone is forced to grow in the family that happened to be…”
True, parents always influence. But you use this inevitability to justify pushing your specific obsession, instead of asking whether your influence is healthy or suffocating. “Every parent does it” isn’t an answer to the concern of projection, it’s a dodge.

“destroyed life… average life…”
You soften this by saying you didn’t literally mean it. But the language you used was extreme for a reason: it reflects how you actually *feel*. Diluting it now only shows you’re trying to walk it back under pressure, rather than honestly confronting the weight of those words.

“I do think if my daughter were shallow… she would have destroyed her life.”
This is exactly the projection I warned you about. You define “shallow” through your own lens, and then equate rejecting music with shallowness. You aren’t allowing the possibility that her passions, whatever they may be, could bring her the same “light in the eyes” you admire in musicians.

“why do I believe music has this power?”
Finally you ask a real question. That’s the start of genuine reflection. But notice: even here, the question is about *your belief* in music, not your daughter’s right to find her own meaning. You still haven’t shifted the spotlight from you to her.

You say you want to accept “she doesn’t want it. Period.” Yet every paragraph circles back to justifying why you’re still right to grieve or push. That’s the cognitive dissonance I pointed out earlier. Until you can let go of needing to validate your sorrow, you’ll keep deflecting rather than understanding.

very interesting, thanks. let me try to dig into it. Hope you dont believe I am running away from it.
“projecting my sorrow and values onto my child”: the only place where I projected my sorrow so far is this place.  And I am not sure what “projecting the sorrow” would imply: believing my child is responsible for my sorrow?
That I am judging my child as of less value simply because she doesn’t play? Lately I have been thinking a lot about my sorrow, and my very first question was a way to understand if I am facing this risk (the risk of judging my child simply because she doesn’t play).
As far as my exaggeration as distortion to avoid self reflection: well, I read here “I am sorry for your kid”, “back off”, “poor kid”, etc, so I think my exaggeration holds.
The “focus on my daughter autonomy”: I realise that probably the real issue is (besides the thaumaturgic power I seem to assign to music) the fact that she hasn’t developed any real passion, hasn’t committed to anything yet, that she hasn’t shown any sign to desire her autonomy to do anything else different from piano.
My “wounded pride”: it seems hard for you to believe, but there was no pride, no objective in mind from my side. I simply would have liked to grant her the joy to have music in her life. That’s it. Never dreamed of her becoming the next Yuja Wang.
My influence healthy or suffocating: and we go back to my exaggeration above. I would see my influence as unhealthy if she were sitting crying at the piano, or if she told her mom that she doesn’t want to play, or if she felt guilty of not studying, or if there were any other sign of her thinking about her obligation to study to satisfy her dad. Nothing like this! She doesn’t give a damn. Piano is not even in her farthest thought. She hasn’t been sitting in front of a keyboard since last June (besides the two 45 minutes lessons she took from September). How can this be suffocating?
And in any case I was not tyring to “justify pushing my obsession” but simply to imply that neutrality is impossible.
“ “destroyed life… average life…” You soften this by saying you didn’t literally mean it.”: well, I am not stepping back from the words I used. And I stick to it: average corporate life is the death of the soul. I have plenty of examples. I do stick to these exact words. Not diluting, rather qualifying it.

<<“I do think if my daughter were shallow… she would have destroyed her life.”
This is exactly the projection I warned you about. You define “shallow” through your own lens, and then equate rejecting music with shallowness. You aren’t allowing the possibility that her passions, whatever they may be, could bring her the same “light in the eyes” you admire in musicians.”>>
Well, I start to see what you mean. And I do agree. Not stepping back however. “Shallow” for me is the average corporate person I have plenty of examples of. And while I don’t equate music rejection with shallowness, it is true I assign to music the power to reduce/eliminate/remove shallowness. I have obviously plenty of example of non-corporate friends and acquaintances who are passionate, not shallow at all, who are active in the most diverse fields, with sparking eyes and I truly admire them, and none of them is a musician. 

“You still haven’t shifted the spotlight from you to her.” Well, I would never go to a piano forum to discuss with strangers about my daughter’s interests. The discussion has been since the beginning about my personal reaction to her decision not to play. I believe I have been transparent since the onset.
“Yet every paragraph circles back to justifying why you’re still right to grieve or push. That’s the cognitive dissonance I pointed out earlier. Until you can let go of needing to validate your sorrow, you’ll keep deflecting rather than understanding.”
I see what you mean. Was I really trying to confirm I am right in my sorrow? In my very first message I wrote these words “I feel lost and surprised by my reaction. I am also thinking to seek help from someone because of my reaction to this”. I do think this is a clear admission of what you are saying I refuse to admit.

[keypeg]

i had to find the meaning of "muster", but I tend to agree, and was the reason i wrote my first message. Issue being probably that so far I never saw her passionate about anything, I never saw the spark in her eyes for anything.

This was in response to the comment about you writing that you have no interest in any of her interests, unless those interests involve music.    Therefore there ARE interests. They do exist.  The point was the interests.  I wrote about this in the same thread in the other forum, and advised you to start there.

It does not matter whether her interests are your natural interest.  The job of a parent, and of a teacher, is to nurture those interests.  That is part of a child's development as a person, self-discovery, becoming who they are, self-actualization.  It validates the child as a person.

Regarding that "spark" - Indifference in what interests you, by a person who has meaning (i.e. a parent) is crushing.  How can one have any kind of spark in the face of indifference?  In fact, I think I would protect my spark and hide it under a bushel so as to avoid the indifference.

[lorcar]

This was in response to the comment about you writing that you have no interest in any of her interests, unless those interests involve music.    Therefore there ARE interests. They do exist.  The point was the interests.  I wrote about this in the same thread in the other forum, and advised you to start there.

It does not matter whether her interests are your natural interest.  The job of a parent, and of a teacher, is to nurture those interests.  That is part of a child's development as a person, self-discovery, becoming who they are, self-actualization.  It validates the child as a person.

Regarding that "spark" - Indifference in what interests you, by a person who has meaning (i.e. a parent) is crushing.  How can one have any kind of spark in the face of indifference?  In fact, I think I would protect my spark and hide it under a bushel so as to avoid the indifference.

I am now struggling to understand how a post from a frustrated music lover on a forum of music lovers turned into a a lecturing from educational experts, perfect parents and laureate shrinks.

[lostinidlewonder]

Your last response shows some movement, but you're still doing the same dance, acknowledge, then immediately rationalize.

**"The only place where I projected my sorrow so far is this place"**

No. Your daughter lives with you. Children read everything  your tone, your silences, your body language, what you choose to engage with and what you ignore. You wrote yourself that you "have no interest in her other things since there is no music in it." She feels that. The projection isn't just happening on this forum.

**"I would see my influence as unhealthy if she were sitting crying at the piano"**

This is a dangerously low bar. "She's not crying, so it's fine" is not the measure of healthy parenting. The fact that she "doesn't give a damn" about piano while still claiming she "wants to play" might itself be a coping mechanism - saying what keeps peace while emotionally checking out.

**"I am not stepping back from the words I used... average corporate life is the death of the soul"**

Here's the problem laid bare. You're still holding onto this hierarchy where most paths = soul death. You say you admire non-musician friends with "sparking eyes," but then in the same breath worry your daughter is headed toward shallowness. You can't have it both ways.

**"Well, I start to see what you mean. And I do agree. Not stepping back however."**

This sentence perfectly captures your cognitive dissonance. "I see your point and agree... but I'm not changing my position." That's not agreement. That's acknowledgment without integration.

**The one genuine moment:**

When you asked "Was I really trying to confirm I am right in my sorrow?" and pointed to your admission about seeking help - yes, that shows self-awareness. That's the seed of something real.

But everything else in your response is still defending, explaining, justifying. You're not sitting with the discomfort. You're managing it.

The question isn't whether you're "running away from it." The question is whether you're actually willing to *change* because of it. So far, you're still negotiating with the criticism rather than letting it transform you.

[lorcar]

jesus how arrogant, overconfident and patronising. And in particular, out of track. I followed until a certain point to better clarify what I had in mind (not being english my first language and hoping to bring all back on track) and it seems you still prefer talking from your pedestal about my daughter and her sad life, and how I should change my position and "integrate" with someone I never met who is lecturing from a musicians forum.
Thanks for the greatest lesson i got today: what social media really are, i now have a better understanding of what people mean.
And last note (which of course will be used to say that i deflect attacking the fair criticising judge): I am not sure which country you guys write from, but from your attitude I might have a very educated guess. Call it racism if it might you feel better.
thanks to everyone who responded.

[keypeg]

I am now struggling to understand how a post from a frustrated music lover on a forum of music lovers turned into a a lecturing from educational experts, perfect parents and laureate shrinks.

I expected you to be a bewildered parent struggling to help your child.  I wrote as a parent trying to help another parent.  We've all been there, and we parents usually turn to each other for ideas.  If you were coming only to vent your feelings, then I read it wrong.   I really thought you were coming for help and ideas, and not just to vent.  I imagine most of us were.

[lostinidlewonder]

jesus how arrogant, overconfident and patronising. And in particular, out of track. I followed until a certain point to better clarify what I had in mind (not being english my first language and hoping to bring all back on track) and it seems you still prefer talking from your pedestal about my daughter and her sad life, and how I should change my position and "integrate" with someone I never met who is lecturing from a musicians forum.
Thanks for the greatest lesson i got today: what social media really are, i now have a better understanding of what people mean.
And last note (which of course will be used to say that i deflect attacking the fair criticising judge): I am not sure which country you guys write from, but from your attitude I might have a very educated guess. Call it racism if it might you feel better.
thanks to everyone who responded.

It seems a pattern of "pretending" to listen but underneath all that youre dug in your own way. No arrogance from me honestly trying to give you a perspective outside of your own head. I guess you dont want advice just peolle saying "oh poor you". And it's AI responding to you not me lol, so youre denying its powerful logic.

[keypeg]

Call it racism if it might you feel better.

I actually thought you might be an American, by your writing style, by the style of the words.   One cannot be racist without knowing a person's race.  fwiw, we're from all parts of the world. That's how the Internet works.

[lorcar]

I expected you to be a bewildered parent struggling to help your child.  I wrote as a parent trying to help another parent.  If you were coming only to vent your feelings, then I read it wrong.

I guess that if you go on the web and write to strangers, you then have to accept what you get back, so I cannot complain. My fault.
However I was expecting -as someone obsessed with music- to talk about myself and music with people sharing the same obsession. I was not expecting to be talking about how I should raise my kids with someone (qualified?) pontificating without knowing either me or my kid, but simply using what I wrote in a language which is not my first.
Also, I was not expecting the conversation to take such a turn, I was expecting a lighter tone (and I expect now the other shrink chiming in "you didnt use light words, you are deflecting"), rather than hearing -surprise suprise- that kids are different from parents, each one of us is a different person, they will find their way and there is a life beyond music and I should just accept it without making them feel our disappointment, and other hidden gems that require a double PhD to be discovered.
Again, it is my fault for being on the web, something I am not used to. Yesterday I had to talk with some friends (one a pro musician with kids, and the other a non musician but with a teenager who completely frustrated his father's expectations/projections/deflections/etc), and at the end it didnt happen and this forum came to mind, not because I was expecting to find perfect parents and psyciology experts, but because I thought I would find people sharing my obsession (I didn't say passion, i didnt say interest. I mean obsession. While I know for a fact that when music becomes a profession often the original reason gets lost in the day to day and it might become a job like any other. There is no one killing my enthusiasm about music like my musician friends).
And more importantly, i was not expecting the tone and the attitude I found here. I wish I had your confidence, your ability to pontificate and shoot judgments and sentence written in stones about people you have never met and assuming a complete world from few sentences (again, in a language not first). One of the few things I learned during my journey as a parent is that there is no perfect recipe, that you do mistakes whatever you do, no matter your intentions. I would never dare to say (imagine writing) something like "you are an helicopter parent", or "i am sorry for your kid", or "you dont care about her feelings", or "your madness on your kid", or "border child abuse", or "you are on a dangerous ideology".
I tried to clarify and explain better what I meant, broadening the scope outside music, especially referring to the modern approach where kids words are given the same consideration as adults', something unthinkable just a generation ago, and mentioning my doubt that this permissive approach might be beneficial.
 

[lorcar]

It seems a pattern of "pretending" to listen but underneath all that youre dug in your own way. No arrogance from me honestly trying to give you a perspective outside of your own head. I guess you dont want advice just peolle saying "oh poor you". And it's AI responding to you not me lol, so youre denying its powerful logic.

?? it means you didnt write any message?
the fact you believe AI has "powerful logic" speaks a lot.
 
And thanks for teaching me the greatest lesson indeed: for sure I overestimated musicians! I learned that you can spend your life dealing with LvB and Debussy, but you can still remain a selfentitled prick, even worse than the people I see at work.
Again, my fault for having assigned such a ungrounded power to the music. In this sense, I would say this conversation served the purpose very well! My poor daughter can now smile again!   

[dizzyfingers]

?? it means you didnt write any message?
the fact you believe AI has "powerful logic" speaks a lot.
 
And thanks for teaching me the greatest lesson indeed: for sure I overestimated musicians! I learned that you can spend your life dealing with LvB and Debussy, but you can still remain a selfentitled prick, even worse than the people I see at work.
Again, my fault for having assigned such a ungrounded power to the music. In this sense, I would say this conversation served the purpose very well! My poor daughter can now smile again!

Agreed, you should move on.
You came here looking for support and you're not getting it.
As you have seen, no one here is sympathizing with your perspective, quite the opposite.
We're rational adults, some here are experienced professional teachers.
But don't listen to us, the question is not about music, or teaching music, it's about parenting.
Therefore talk to some professionals in the therapy / parenting field.
That's the only helpful action step in front of you.

[essence]

More red flags:

as someone obsessed with music-
people sharing the same obsession
find people sharing my obsession (I didn't say passion, i didnt say interest. I mean obsession.)

If I or others have seemed to be harsh, it is because we care, and don't want to sugar the pill.

[picosinge]

The OP has also started a similar rant at another piano forum.   

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" comes to mind ...

[psipsi8]

Just to put in my two cents. I don't have kids, but I used to be one. And I often didn't want to practise the piano. Am I ever glad my parents insisted and punished me if at my weekly lesson I was found to not have performed as expected. No TV. Sound old-fashioned, as those were different times but the fact of the matter is, until one is able to play some serious pieces well, that is to see the fruits of their labour, practising the piano is a total grind. So I think all of you above are overanalyzing the matter and since the kid seems to identify with piano playing, she doesn't want to quit. What she needs is some prodding, that's all.

[brogers70]

Just to put in my two cents. I don't have kids, but I used to be one. And I often didn't want to practise the piano. Am I ever glad my parents insisted and punished me if at my weekly lesson I was found to not have performed as expected. No TV. Sound old-fashioned, as those were different times but the fact of the matter is, until one is able to play some serious pieces well, that is to see the fruits of their labour, practising the piano is a total grind. So I think all of you above are overanalyzing the matter and since the kid seems to identify with piano playing, she doesn't want to quit. What she needs is some prodding, that's all.

The kids whose parents prodded so much the they made the kids hate playing the piano don't show up in piano forums as adults, and I'll bet the majority of kids who were punished for not practicing enough the old-fashioned way fall into that category. Some will end up enjoying the piano no matter what, but for the most part kids who are going to excel at an instrument excel because they have a genuine interest on their own and don't need to be forced to practice. Obviously, the occasional reminder is one thing, but if it's like pulling teeth, that's not a good sign.

[lostinidlewonder]

?? it means you didnt write any message?
the fact you believe AI has "powerful logic" speaks a lot.
 
And thanks for teaching me the greatest lesson indeed: for sure I overestimated musicians! I learned that you can spend your life dealing with LvB and Debussy, but you can still remain a selfentitled prick, even worse than the people I see at work.
Again, my fault for having assigned such a ungrounded power to the music. In this sense, I would say this conversation served the purpose very well! My poor daughter can now smile again!

Yes AI says a lot it is an unemotional truth revealer in many cases and perfect in yours, its clear how unhinged your parenting ideologies are.

I did write much at the start then realised you're a lost cause and decided ai would be kinder to you than me. The message you abused me over was an AI assessment of all your writing.

 You're a peculiar case of a person who pretends to take on board what people say but will never change his ways and is not looking for any help at all. You just want to justify your own ideas no matter what. no One was being offensive until you got upset we're not saying "poor you". If you want me to dig into you that's very easy based on what you've said, but there's no need. You already have zero response to the critisism about your ideas. It is especially concerning that you have NO interest in your daughter except for a pursuit in music, that is the most narrow minded you can possibly be and you have no reason for this. Don't you even have any interest in your daughter at all other than what you want to make her like?

[lorcar]

You came here looking for support and you're not getting it.
As you have seen, no one here is sympathizing with your perspective, quite the opposite.
Therefore talk to some professionals in the therapy / parenting field.
That's the only helpful action step in front of you.

I went through your previous messages again, as I am trying to understand where the misunderstanding comes from. In my very first message I read " I am also thinking to seek help from someone because of my reaction ". 
I was not expecting to find "support" here, rather someone who went through the same and who would simply add "yes, it happens, it is not the end of the world, move on, it is more common than you might think, even among musicians, etc".
I was not expecting any other "help", just an exchange of opinions.
What surpised me -and where the controversy started- were the quick judgments and final statements, from someone who I don't know to someone they don't know.

[lorcar]

The kids whose parents prodded so much the they made the kids hate playing the piano don't show up in piano forums as adults, and I'll bet the majority of kids who were punished for not practicing enough the old-fashioned way fall into that category.

Sure, but as you wrote previously "there is space" between punishing for missing the result and just asking to show up and commit to something, no matter the result.

[lorcar]

The OP has also started a similar rant at another piano forum.   

I didnt think this was a problem. I thought that being the two fora different they would have different audience. If this is not the case and the same people hang out in both places, then you should ask to join them.

[picosinge]

I didnt think this was a problem. I thought that being the two fora different they would have different audience. If this is not the case and the same people hang out in both places, then you should ask to join them.

Did I ever say this is a problem? 
Simply pointing out the obvious - that you are shopping for people to agree with you. 

[brogers70]

Sure, but as you wrote previously "there is space" between punishing for missing the result and just asking to show up and commit to something, no matter the result.

Have some faith in your daughter. She's been watching you for all of her life. If you've been living something more inspiring than what you call an average, normal life, and you are happy with it, she'll see that and find her way to something similarly inspiring. The greatest influence parents have on their kids is by their example, not what they tell their kids about life, but what they show them.

You've complained about the responses you've gotten here. I reread your original post and my original answer; I think I pretty much stuck to what you'd asked. Had you simply posted "I'd always hoped my daughter would love classical music, but it hasn't turned out that way, and I'm very sad about it." You might have gotten responses more to your liking. I also wish my kids had loved it - it would have been great to have a piano trio in the family, and I envy families I know that are able to play chamber music or sing motet together. Some things are just not in your control.