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Requesting some Chopin help. (Read 2009 times)

Offline chopinisque

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Requesting some Chopin help.
« on: March 06, 2005, 02:10:19 AM »
First:

How do I play the ornament in the middle of Chopin's prelude no. 20?  It appears between two notes and has a double sharp under it.  I've never encountered something like this before...

Second:

Does the edition of Chopin's works matter?  Is the Alfred's edition okay?

Thanks.
Mad about Chopin.

piano sheet music of Prelude


Offline thierry13

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Re: Requesting some Chopin help.
«Reply #1 on: March 06, 2005, 02:21:33 AM »
Could you be precise about the bar ? I don't see any problem in this piece...

mikeyg

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Re: Requesting some Chopin help.
«Reply #2 on: March 06, 2005, 02:22:31 AM »
What bar is it?  I have my score in front of me and i don't see any double sharps.

Offline thierry13

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Re: Requesting some Chopin help.
«Reply #3 on: March 06, 2005, 02:24:05 AM »
Are you sure it's Chopin's prelude no.20 op.28 ?  :P

mikeyg

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Re: Requesting some Chopin help.
«Reply #4 on: March 06, 2005, 02:28:11 AM »
Yea.  Granted, my edition is Schirmer's  :-X , but the prelude sounds right whenever I play it, so I don't think that there is an error in it.

Offline allchopin

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Re: Requesting some Chopin help.
«Reply #5 on: March 06, 2005, 02:42:43 AM »
There are no double sharps in the whole piece - you must be msitaken.
A modern house without a flush toilet... uncanny.

Offline SteinwayTony

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Re: Requesting some Chopin help.
«Reply #6 on: March 06, 2005, 02:58:31 AM »
I just had a master class with Seymour Bernstein, and when the student finished playing her nocturne from her Schirmer edition, he said, "Okay.  Now when you leave here today, throw that out and buy this [Vienna Urtext]."

Schirmer editors tend to want to become Chopin, giving themselves priviledges that they shouldn't have.

mikeyg

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Re: Requesting some Chopin help.
«Reply #7 on: March 06, 2005, 03:02:19 AM »
I know, but i didn't know when I bought it.  >:( My most new piano teacher scalded me for it  :'(. But, oh well, as long as they sound nice and I enjoy then, then there is no harm.

Offline andyng85

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Re: Requesting some Chopin help.
«Reply #8 on: March 06, 2005, 03:19:17 AM »
The Presto con fuoco isn't as hard as it looks.  There are many patterns to the passages.
Slow practice /wout pedal to build up accuracy and then speed it up gradually.

My teacher from a while ago suggested crawling of the fingers of the right hand, but I prefer lifting the hand very much and settling it down, it provids more clarity.

any chink azians that wish to chat about music on msn.. add me andyng85@hotmail.com

Offline chopinisque

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Re: Requesting some Chopin help.
«Reply #9 on: March 06, 2005, 08:36:04 AM »
It's on bar 17, including the anacrusis, between the second A sharp and the G one octave higher.  I think it's a turn but it's floating in mid air with a double sharp under it (a cross).  It's the place that says stretto whose meaning I don't know either.  Is it another form of the word stretti?  If it is, I don't think it makes much sense.  The version I'm refering to is from Sheet Music Archive.

What presto con fuoco?  Not talking about the fourth etude here... 
Mad about Chopin.

Offline freakofnature

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Re: Requesting some Chopin help.
«Reply #10 on: March 06, 2005, 09:33:16 AM »
It's on bar 17, including the anacrusis, between the second A sharp and the G one octave higher.

Uuuhhhmm... Prelude No 20 is only 13 bars long... I think you've got the wrong number!

Edit: I've found it. What you mean is Prelude No 4 (!!!) op 28, bar 16.

If I'm not mistaken, stretta means that you play faster. I don't know what  to do with the ornament, though...

Offline bernhard

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Re: Requesting some Chopin help.
«Reply #11 on: March 06, 2005, 10:45:07 AM »


Uuuhhhmm... Prelude No 20 is only 13 bars long... I think you've got the wrong number!

Edit: I've found it. What you mean is Prelude No 4 (!!!) op 28, bar 16.

If I'm not mistaken, stretta means that you play faster. I don't know what  to do with the ornament, though...
If freakofnature is right (and it looks like s/he is), and you are talking about prelude 4, then the ornament is called a “turn”, and you should play it so:



He is also right about “stretto” (plural: “stretti”), which in this case means a quickening of the pace from the very first beat of bar 17, that is, you accelerate towards the turn to create a sense of urgency (don’t overdo it!).

Also have a look here where there is more discussion on this prelude:

http://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4016.msg36601.html#msg36601

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline chopinisque

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Re: Requesting some Chopin help.
«Reply #12 on: March 06, 2005, 12:09:58 PM »
::slams head into desk::

How stupid of me!  I am currently learning both and got the numbers mixed up.  I just realised and was about to come and clarify but it seems that you got there first...  Anyway... thanks...

PS  That link is great.  Eloquent.  Like bttay, I've printed it out and placed it with my score.  Thanks again.

PPS
Quote
The Presto con fuoco isn't as hard as it looks.  There are many patterns to the passages.
Slow practice /wout pedal to build up accuracy and then speed it up gradually.

My teacher from a while ago suggested crawling of the fingers of the right hand, but I prefer lifting the hand very much and settling it down, it provids more clarity.

What presto con fuoco?  Not talking about the fourth etude here...

Looks like it was the fourth after all. LOL

PPPS  If it's not too much to ask, is there a way to play the prelude no. 20's (yes, I mean that this time) bar 2 chord 3 (the one where the thumb has to play two notes across the wide gap) without making the thumb hurt?  I've tried changing the way I play that chord but the big thumb muscle that connects the finger to the palm still hurts.
Mad about Chopin.

mikeyg

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Re: Requesting some Chopin help.
«Reply #13 on: March 06, 2005, 08:50:42 PM »
This chord really shouldn't hurt that much, as it isn't very hard or awkward.  If you do feel pain, then you really shouldn't play i until you ask your teacher about it.  This prelude really isn't worth permanent damage.