How many recordings of same work?

[goose]

It’s really heartening to see that the prevailing advice given here for learning a new piece is to listen to recordings.

Jazz teaching always insists there’s no substitute for listening to the music. But for the classical repertoire, I somehow shared the misconception that the ‘score is the thing’. Now I feel I can dive straight into concentrated listening guilt free, before tackling the notes myself.

But I am curious about people’s CD collections. My impulse would still be to find one version I like; then expand my collection with other works rather than buying multiple interpretations.

So how many different interpretations do you have for a favorite piece, which is on your repertoire list?

[Radix]

My teacher often makes me CDs filled with various performances of one piece that I'm working on, including things like Beethoven's sonatas, Rachmaninoff's preludes, Chopin's études, and Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsodies.  It really helps to hear how something can be played five different ways, yet still sound good each way.

[liszt1022]

at last count, I have 6 complete recordings of Berlioz' Symphonie fantastique on piano (crow reach biret howard petrov duchable) to go with my 5 orchestra recordings.

also 2 rite of springs for piano solo and 2 rite of springs on two pianos.

4 goldberg variations.

6 rach 3's.

but other than those, I don't have too much in the way of multiple recordings.

[Alfonso Van Worden]

Hello...interesting topic!

I always try to get as many recordings as I can of the pieces in my repertoire, Now I´m playing the Listz´s sonata and I have like 10 recordings(more or less). And when I fall in love with a piece a buy as many recordings as I can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nicko124]

My teacher said that it's not a good idea to take ideas for one piece from many different interpretations. I have to agree with this as it seems out of balance to take ideas from multiple recordings, the ideas could easily get muddled and it can sound bad.
The performance recording that i get is mostly based on how easily i can get it, if i am studying 2 pieces of Chopin it seems like a waste to buy a CD with 20 works. On the other hand it might be useful for future listening and learning new pieces. I search for free mp3s on the net mostly , i am 17 and i don't have enough money to be buying classical Cds like there's no tommorow. I buy all my own sheet music though.

For anyone who is in a similar position and wants to find classical mp3s i reccomend the following link:-
https://www.classiccat.net

[anda]

i have 8 rachmaninov 3 (well, 3 of them are with horowitz, different recordings - and very different performances) - and it's not "my favourite work"

i  try to listen to as many recordings as i can whenever i decide to learn a work - and that doesn't change my own feeling (or my own image) towards that work. and i have played works i had never heard before (couldn't find any recording), and not hearing it didn't help me at all (and it didn't cause me any trouble either, for that matter).

[goose]

My teacher often makes me CDs filled with various performances of one piece that I'm working on

Let's hear it for teachers who make recordings of different intepretations for their students! Can't be too many of them around.

As a follow-up question, does anyone find the first interpretation you listen really carefully to has a disproportionate impact? I mean, do you compare future interpretations against it? I find the first one (especially if it's something I heard when younger) often seems more 'right' just because it's settled in my head as kind of definitive.

[bernhard]

Let's hear it for teachers who make recordings of different intepretations for their students! Can't be too many of them around.

I do that. Every student of mine receives a CD with several interpretations of the piece they are currently learning - often I include a track of a really bad unmusical rendition as well - if I cannot find one that is bad enough I will mke a track of the computer playing it: all the right notes at the right time, and yet it is crap. (JS Bach may have missed something here... excpet that he probably meant the right notes at the right time, not the notes as written on the score at the time written on the score )

I encourage a huge amount of CD listening. The idea that a student should not listen to other people's interpretiation in ored not to influendce his own is absurd. It would mean never going to a concert ever again, just in case your piece is played and you are influenced by it. I have little patience for teachers who support this view simply because my first teachers were like that and I basically lost a huge amount of time that I could have been using an amazing resource.

So, students out there: listen carefully: If your teacher tells you any such rubbish, disregard it completely and listen to as many CDs of your piece as you can get your hands on. Figure out what you like and what you dislike. Try to pinpoint the differences. See if you can do the same. Can you paly as badly as a computer? Can you play as idiossincratically as Glenn Gould? This will teach you heaps about how to get certain effects from the piano (=technique).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[SDL]

I love it when Bernhard replies!

We were also told to not be influenced by CDs and learn the score first (this was on a Master of Arts in Performance degree by so called performance studies lecturers - note the word lecturers!) My piano teacher however (a concert pianist!) then told me to listen to recordings to see what they do.  She said she used to study the score with the music and write notes on the music to see what the performer does - especially at Masterclasses.  I thought this was a very studious approach and made sense to me.  Only thing is I used to do more listening than practicing imagining I was in the big halls playing what I was listening to 

[stormx]

Very interesting topic.

I agree with Goose about the importance of the first interpretation you have listened to. It usually (not allways, tough) happens that it is the one i prefer.

For instance, lets take Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu.
The first version i have listened to is by Anatol Ugorski.
Later, i bought Cds with Cziffra and Arrau playing it. Everybody should agree that both are better pianists than Ugorski, but the fact is that, among the 3 interpretations, i still prefer Ugorski's.

In what respect to own many recordings, i usually prefer to enlarge my collection with new works to make it more complete. For instance, i adore Chopin's Nocturnes (i have Arrau set), but instead of buying another set, i prefer to complete my Chopin Music.

The same happens with Beethoven sonatas. I do not own a complete set, but i have right now 22 of them, by several pianists (Gulda, Kempff, Jando, Kovacevich, Barenboim, Richter). Instead of buying new versions of the well known ones i already have, i prefer to complete the 32, even if they are the less known ones.

As a side note, this is completely unrelated to my beginner repertoire, that currently consists of:
Fur Elise (easy part)
Tambourin (Daquin)
Many Czerny, Beyer, etc
 

[goose]

So at least someone else gets this same attachment to the first recording, despite rationalizations that it may not be really superior.

I have a variation for this question...

What about really old recordings? People say that Horowitz, or Rubinstein, or Arrau, or whoever was amazing. But I find I can't get past the recording quality. I put up with dodgy sound to hear Art Tatum or Bud Powell play. But they were playing original music. One of a kind things that no one else would ever play again.

I'm listening right now to Egon Petri playing Brahms Paganini Variations (Naxos, Great Pianists series). It's from around 1937 and, considering that, it's not too bad. But I can't help wishing for a clear recording with depth and colour. So...

Are there any recordings which -- despite their shortcomings in sound quality -- you would still say are essential to a well rounded CD collection? Or to put it slightly differently: If there are numerous versions of a given work, is there any value (apart from curiosity) to seek out the Old Masters?

[Motrax]

It's definitely important to listen to multiple recordings of a piece (and arguably better to see people play the piece live, depending on how good the pianist you're seeing is).

I like to become familiar with the notes first, however, so that when I listen to recordings I know what to listen for. Recordings generally give me ideas for sections of a piece that I feel lack uniqueness when I play them.

I'm learning Schubert's Gb major Impromptu, among other things, so I listened to 7 or 8 recordings of it by pianists ranging from Cartot and Fischer to Brendel and Ranki (who's pretty unknown). When listening to multiple recordings of the same piece, I generally follow along in the music to see what idiosynchrosies each pianist has. I first take note of the tempo - this is one of the most important variables in interperetation (in my opinion) - and then I listen for the general shape of phrasing and dynamics. I tend to ignore extra notes if the pianist adds them, as well as note mistakes or sections which seem to provide difficulty for the performer. I take note of rubato and dynamic variation that I like so I can expiriment with that later at the piano.

Besides recordings of the piece(s) I'm learning, it's just as important to focus on a certain pianist who you develop and affinity for. My favorite pianist is Rachmaninoff, and I've listened to his complete recordings countless times. Even though he didn't record Schubert's Gb major Impromptu, I still learned to better shape my own phrasing in that piece by listening to his other recordings. Watching Horowitz (on VHS) has helped me understand the importance of dynamic contrast, watching Richter taught me a great deal of how to produce a good tone while still being economical in my playing - the advantages of listening to and watching other pianists play are countless.

Regarding old recordings - the hiss is just something you have to get used to. The best way to do this is to listen to a lot of old recordings without returning to more modern ones for a while. But listening to the old masters is very important - each has a unique way of playing which can teach quite a lot and add new dimensions to your own performance.

And that's my two cents. 

[goose]

Thanks for the detailed response, Motrax, and for explaining what you try to get out of each version you hear and what specifically you listen for. Very interesting.

I like the idea of zoning in on players you feel you have an affinity for. I've still got a lot of listening to do to find those players, though. I have more Brendel, Ashkenazy and Gould than anyone else, but I'm not sure if their interpretations really move me or if it is simply the work they are playing (which goes back to a question I raised in another thread of whether the performer is there to recreate the work, or to create something new from it).

I totally agree about tempo. And I think that's the thing that makes the first recording exert a stronger influence on me than subsequent versions I hear. If a phrase moves me but a later performer seems to rush straight through it, I feel robbed. But if they elongate something that was done fairly briskly in that first recording, I can feel they're wallowing in sentiment.

I think it was Charles Rosen who said there's no such thing as a correct tempo. You just have to convince the listener of your interpretation. I'm certainly open to being convinced by later versions I hear. I suppose I just have to be aware of the bias that first recording can give.

As for the hiss...I guess I'll keep trying. At least those old recordings tend to be cheap 

[ravel]

yes , its sooooooooo true with me, the first recording i hear just gets stuck into my head, and usually i prefer it, even if i know the other one is better sometimes.  the first recording of debussy's pagodes  i heard was by a  little known pianist ( i am assuming) called Dieter Goldman, and after that i have heard moravec and weissenberg and arrau playing it,  i love them all , and i know  weissenberg plays its better too maybe,  but  the Goldman recording is stuck in my head, and i still love it the most i guess.

[apion]

My teacher often makes me CDs filled with various performances of one piece that I'm working on, including things like Beethoven's sonatas, Rachmaninoff's preludes, Chopin's études, and Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsodies.  It really helps to hear how something can be played five different ways, yet still sound good each way.

That's a great idea!  Your teacher deserves a bonus!