The Easiest and Hardest of the Ballades and Scherzos?

[fred smalls]

I was just listening to one of my recordings (Tamas Vasary) of the Chopin Ballades and Scherzos, and I decided to learn one (I haven't before). And I was wondering if you guys could tell me which you think is the easiest, and which you think is the hardest (of the Ballades, or Scherzos, or Both). A list from 1 to 8 would also be great (if you have the time). Thanks!

[dinosaurtales]

I would be interested in knowing this, too.  I am currently working on the g minor ballad and LOVING IT!  (OK I know I posted a whiny message yesterday, but really I am having a blast working onthis one). And I will maybe want to try one of the other ones or a scherzo, so what do you all think?  They are all HOT.

[Skeptopotamus]

ballads:    3, 2, 1, and 4   (easiest to hardest)  2 and 1 are a tossup though really.

Scherzos:  most people will say 1,2 ,3 and 4.  i dont know alot about them tho.

[bernhard]

There are lots of threads discussing the ballades and scherzos. Do a search. Here is one (there are far more detailed ones):

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3683.msg32884.html#msg32884
(difficulty of scherzos and ballades)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[steinwayguy]

1. Scherzo 1
2. Scherzo 2
3. Scherzo 3
4. Ballade 3
5. Scherzo 4
6. Ballade 2
7. Ballade 1
8. Ballade 4

They're all pretty ridiculous.

[steinwaymodeld]

1. Scherzo 1
2. Scherzo 2
3. Scherzo 3
4. Ballade 3
5. Scherzo 4
6. Ballade 2
7. Ballade 1
8. Ballade 4

They're all pretty ridiculous.

Ballade 1 over all Scherzi?
Really? Maybe I should learn all Scherzi then.

[fred smalls]

I have always been under the impression that the 3rd Ballade was the easiest. I was sight reading through it yesterday, and found it not to be that tricky, of course it will require alot of work, but it wasnt very hard to sight read... (except for 1 page, can't remember which...)

[steinwayguy]

Ballade 1 over all Scherzi?
Really? Maybe I should learn all Scherzi then.

Everyone plays the first Ballade, but nobody plays it well.

[iumonito]

We had this discussion recently and it seems that the types of technique you have affect severly what you think.  here is my list, easiest to hardest:

Ballade 2
Scherzo4
Scherzo 2
Ballade 4 (only the coda is difficult, but it is more difficult than the previous three)
Scherzo 3
Ballade 3
Scherzo 1
Ballade 1 (mostly because of the coda)

very profitable repertoire.  You should learn all eaight of them.

[fred smalls]

WHOA! Your list scares me! Ballade no.4 in the middle? I guess I everyone has different abilities, considering every list is different.

[Waldszenen]

Aargh, most people are underrating the difficult of Ballade No. 2.

[fred smalls]

Aargh, most people are underrating the difficult of Ballade No. 2.

Yeah, thats what I was thinking...

[jcromp78]

Boy the scherzi seem more technically difficult than the ballades especially number 3 in C# & and 4 in E major. Ballade number 4 does have the coda which requires alot of power and excellent double note technique. I would save that piece for last.

[steinwayguy]

We had this discussion recently and it seems that the types of technique you have affect severly what you think. here is my list, easiest to hardest:

Ballade 2
Scherzo4
Scherzo 2
Ballade 4 (only the coda is difficult, but it is more difficult than the previous three)
Scherzo 3
Ballade 3
Scherzo 1
Ballade 1 (mostly because of the coda)

very profitable repertoire. You should learn all eaight of them.

Ok, let's run over this again. I can see the first ballade being more difficult than the fourth. Not the third though, sorry. Not a snowcone's chance in hell. And the first scherzo? Wow. The easiest scherzo, except for maybe the second. The second ballade is easily more difficult than the third, as well as the first and second scherzos. Where the hell did you come up with that list?

[iumonito]

shall we banter?

My opinions about the relative difficulty of these 8 pieces I got when I learned them, dear.  The second ballade fits very well in the hand, and those repeated notes in the coda require very little effort if you remain close to the keyboard and not try to overdo it.

I find the first scherzo eons harder than the third.  It is much more uncomfortable in the hand, and requires a lot of coordination and bodyweight shifting, something the third scherzo only calls for in the last page or so.

I am glad you think the 3rd balade is easy.  We disagree.  I find it complex, demanding loots of coordintation, a very wise sense of timing and a vast color palette.  It took me months to just learn the notes, whereas the 4th balade I got up and runing in a couple of weeks.  What is it that you think is so hard about this work?  I love it with passion, but up to the last 3 pages it is little more than an oversized nocturne, and even the coda is very pianistic and fits well in the hand.

Nothing wrong with disagreeing.  Watch your icecream, you may stain your shirt.

[steinwayguy]

shall we banter?

My opinions about the relative difficulty of these 8 pieces I got when I learned them, dear. The second ballade fits very well in the hand, and those repeated notes in the coda require very little effort if you remain close to the keyboard and not try to overdo it.

I find the first scherzo eons harder than the third. It is much more uncomfortable in the hand, and requires a lot of coordination and bodyweight shifting, something the third scherzo only calls for in the last page or so.

I am glad you think the 3rd balade is easy. We disagree. I find it complex, demanding loots of coordintation, a very wise sense of timing and a vast color palette. It took me months to just learn the notes, whereas the 4th balade I got up and runing in a couple of weeks. What is it that you think is so hard about this work? I love it with passion, but up to the last 3 pages it is little more than an oversized nocturne, and even the coda is very pianistic and fits well in the hand.

Nothing wrong with disagreeing. Watch your icecream, you may stain your shirt.

Well if all you want to do is play the notes, great for you. The 4th Ballade is the most technically demanding Ballade because it is the most musically and interpretively demanding Ballade. Really, I'd love to hear you play that introduction really well. In fact, I'd love to hear anyone play that introduction really well, because it hasn't happened yet. "Mechnically" speaking, the first Ballade is harder than the fourth. The Third? By no means.

[fred smalls]

I think the third is definately the easiest. Thats why I'm learning it

[Waldszenen]

The Scherzo No. 1 can be considered "easy" in the sense that you encounter new material only a couple of times; that is, many parts are repeated so the amount of material you need to learn is rather insignificant.

Scherzo No. 2 isn't so bad.

[iumonito]

Steinwayguy, thanks for your comments.  It is a waste of your time and mine to engage in this banter.  We obviously are not talking at the same level.

I agree the fourth balade is beautiful, and that the introduction is miraculous.  I happen to think you have to do very little for it to sound great.  The less you do, the better it goes and sets the mood for what is to follow.

I am sorry you have never heard it played great.  If a recording will do, please let me refer you to Bolet's recording.  I fear, though, with you liking Steinway pianos so much and having such a towering opinion of the difficulty of the second balade and the triviality of the first scherzo, you may not like it.  Good luck.

Don't suffer.  Vivi felice.

[JP]

Aargh, most people are underrating the difficult of Ballade No. 2.

Yeah, thats what I was thinking...

I agree with both of you..

IMO the ballades are harder than the scherzi.
Among the ballads when simply considering technique the 2 is the hardest.  With 4 in a close 2nd, followed by 1 and 3.
When considering musicality, I would say its a tossup between the 2 and 4, followed by 1, 3.  Obviously the musicality cannot be achieved without proper technique being mastered.
And yes, 3 is possibly the easiest.

Among people I know who have played the ballades, there seems to be consensus that 2 and 4 are the toughies.   The difficulties I've come across while learning these pieces indicate the same..

[etudes]

i dont know why but i think everyone always underrated 3rd ballade
i play the 2nd ballade and now study first and third and i find that third is more difficult than the 2nd ballade for me (both technique and musical difficulties)

[steinwayguy]

I agree with both of you..

IMO the ballades are harder than the scherzi.
Among the ballads when simply considering technique the 2 is the hardest. With 4 in a close 2nd, followed by 1 and 3.
When considering musicality, I would say its a tossup between the 2 and 4, followed by 1, 3. Obviously the musicality cannot be achieved without proper technique being mastered.
And yes, 3 is possibly the easiest.

Among people I know who have played the ballades, there seems to be consensus that 2 and 4 are the toughies. The difficulties I've come across while learning these pieces indicate the same..

1 and 4 are both technically more difficult than 2, but it doesn't look that way. 3 might even be more difficult than 2.

[JP]

Fred Smalls, in the end does the difficulty really matter?  I guess it could, but if you are mature enough to play one, then you should be ok to do any of those works.  What does matter, is which one you like best..  Great for motivation...  After you've decided which piece, prepare a work schedule and stick to it.   

Hopefully you will start the Scherzi though.. It wont be as painful for your teacher.. 
I'm j/k, judging from what I've read in your posts you seem to be well balanced.

1 and 4 are both technically more difficult than 2, but it doesn't look that way. 3 might even be more difficult than 2.

ok.
I've played the Ballades and have been evaluated with them.  But like I said, ok.
Difficulty is usually a very personal thing, and when trying to classify pieces that are apx the same in terms of difficulty, a general consensus is unachievable.

[fred smalls]

You have a good point. Really, truthfully, no matter which piece you play, any piece, requires more work than just notes. And I realize that. I can definately tackle musicality. I was wondering about technicality.