Notes Intermingled Between Hands

[ucg musician]

Greetings.  This is my first post.  I have played piano for nearly 70 years but have never been more than what would be called "intermediate."  I am always looking for pieces that I can effectively perform at church services.  Such pieces must be easily manageable with a few hours of practice, 3-5 minutes long (occasionally up to 6 is OK) and appeal to a general audience.  An internet search on "easy piano pieces" brought me to this website and it seems to be a great resource for a lot of information.  One of the works discussed in the thread "Less Challenging Scriabin Pieces" is Etude Op. 2 No. 1 in C-sharp Minor.  I would like feedback on what I am calling the notes intermingled between hands.  By this, I am referring to notes in the left hand that are above some of the notes in the right hand.  The very first chord is typical.  The lowest note in the right hand is E below middle C while the highest note in the left hand is G# below middle C.  What is the point of rolling a wide chord in the left hand with the highest note above a note that could easily be played with the right hand?  I have occasionally played pieces where there are some intermingled notes but they seem reasonable in the context.  I might work on this particular Scriabin piece because I think it's quite tuneful and would come off as pretty and contemplative.  But if there are compelling reasons to play it exactly as written, with the left and right hand parts having these intermingled notes, I would probably look for something else.  Hopefully someone with a good deal of experience with this technique can provide some valuable input on this.

[the_franzliszt]

That's awesome that you've kept with the piano and kept playing for that long. I would go along and keep playing with Scriabin who's tremendously underplayed in a professional setting, there's a bunch of French composers who have relatively simple pieces you could learn in an hours' time. I think Eric Saties Gymnopedies and Gnossienes are really fun to play based off how seral and void like they are. That first "chord" I roll the whole thing on both hand with the G# on the right hand even though it's not written. Just make sure you put emphasis on the C since it's the first note on the melody line.

The left hand through the majority of the piece has repeated chords throughout, think almost Chopins Prelude Op. 28 No. 4 in E minor type deal. The harmony throughout this piece pushes the despair and pain emotions. When you get to the second key change, keep everything laid back and chill, its not growing and not a super strong melody. 

I do think this is also a great introduction to Scriabin's works as it is one of his easier etudes in his repertoire. Obviously the most notorious one in my opinion is that of Etude in D sharp minor Op.8 No.12 which is very ferocious. Hope some of this helps!

With Best Regards,

Noah S.

[ucg musician]

Thank you, Noah.  This is indeed helpful.  I've had little exposure to Scriabin's music.  He wrote a significant amount of material, including several symphonies and other orchestral works which I've never heard performed live.

[quantum]

This piece is certainly beautiful and in the right situations, appropriate for church service.  However, I wouldn't describe it as an intermediate difficulty piece, don't underestimate it's challenges.  It is a study in tonal shading, chordal shape and line. 

The intertwined chords are a way of differentiating line and counterpoint.  However, for this piece a "line" might not be just a single note, but can also refer to how the shape and voicing of a chord develops.  Think of it like this: orchestral music would be terribly boring if instruments  were only stick to an artificially confined range. 

That said, you can feel free to redistribute the notes if it fits your hand better.  However, be cautious about sounding blocky.  Much of the beauty of this piece comes from how the chords are voiced and distributed in the hands.  Also the intertwined chords makes bringing out certain counter melodies easier. 

[dizzyfingers]

Greetings.  This is my first post.  I have played piano for nearly 70 years but have never been more than what would be called "intermediate."  I am always looking for pieces that I can effectively perform at church services.  Such pieces must be easily manageable with a few hours of practice, 3-5 minutes long (occasionally up to 6 is OK) and appeal to a general audience.  An internet search on "easy piano pieces" brought me to this website and it seems to be a great resource for a lot of information.  One of the works discussed in the thread "Less Challenging Scriabin Pieces" is Etude Op. 2 No. 1 in C-sharp Minor.  I would like feedback on what I am calling the notes intermingled between hands.  By this, I am referring to notes in the left hand that are above some of the notes in the right hand.  The very first chord is typical.  The lowest note in the right hand is E below middle C while the highest note in the left hand is G# below middle C.  What is the point of rolling a wide chord in the left hand with the highest note above a note that could easily be played with the right hand?  I have occasionally played pieces where there are some intermingled notes but they seem reasonable in the context.  I might work on this particular Scriabin piece because I think it's quite tuneful and would come off as pretty and contemplative.  But if there are compelling reasons to play it exactly as written, with the left and right hand parts having these intermingled notes, I would probably look for something else.  Hopefully someone with a good deal of experience with this technique can provide some valuable input on this.

The interlocking/overlapping chord technique is found everywhere in Scriabin's piano music.
Playing the chords as written enables the pianist to apply voicing and shading to the chord to bring out different musical lines (not always the top line), particularly in this etude.  However, unless you're spending a fair amount of time on these pieces and have a piano that can bring out the different shadings in the individual notes of the chord, it may be an endeavor of diminishing returns.  Feel free to redistribute the notes between the hands - you won't be the first person to do so. 

Another reason Scriabin and Prokofiev ( in op 75 no 5 "Masks" and other pieces) write this way is to show the compositional structure of the harmony, some of the distributions are very awkward, particularly in Prokofiev. 

I would recommend Prokofiev's Andante from op 3 for your church services, btw.
And lots of Faure's music would be suitable.

[ucg musician]

All the feedback is appreciated.  I may pursue this piece.  It has a rather haunting appeal that I think many in my congregation would appreciate.  The "audience" is not especially sophisticated and few people would understand the nuances and shading.  That being said, I don't even know how to practice a work like this.  Where do I start?  Practice both hands together?  Or one hand at a time?  One measure at a time very slowly until that little bit is secure?  Or practice a phrase at a time?  Or practice the whole piece with a faster tempo in places where it's in my fingers and a slower tempo where it's difficult for me?  What about the triplets at measure 17 and later on?  The 3 against 2 requires more stretch than I have.  And the stem-down eighth notes in the right hand are too high to be picked up with the left hand.  If I tackle this number, I have from now until May 24 to prepare it.  Is it practical for someone with not-so-good technique to do a piece like this?

[quantum]

The 3 against 2 requires more stretch than I have.  And the stem-down eighth notes in the right hand are too high to be picked up with the left hand. 

In Scriabin when you are faced with a chord that is too large for the hands, it is stylistically appropriate to either roll or break the chord.  Scriabin writes big chords so frequently, that it is an unwritten expectation that the pianist does this intuitively.  Scriabin's scores do not always specify what to do with big chords, so it is more of an interpretation choice of the pianist. 

A roll is similar to what you have likely experienced in other music, the squiggly vertical line symbol.  A break would be approximated as: acciaccatura followed by main chord.  The acciaccatura could be either before the main beat, or on the main beat. 

Also in Scriabin, note values are not always held literally, you are expected to use pedal and voicing to imply line and counterpoint.  So for the triplets, you don't have to hold the stem down chords for their literal value.  You can release them when the stretch is out of physical reach, and place more focus on the melody. 

How you practice, depends on what the focus of your work unit is.  If you are working on melody and line, you can  just solo out the melody in unison to hear it.  In this piece, there are lots of countermelodies, so "melody" doesn't always mean top line. 

If you are working on chord technique, you might want to practice getting from one hand shape to another, without hesitating or searching for the notes. 

When you are comfortable with hands separate, you can start to build the piece hands together one phrase at a time. 

Don't change tempo in the middle of the piece to adapt to difficulty, pick a tempo you can maintain from start to end.  If you are practising sections, then pick a single unified tempo for the entire section. 


Keep reasonable expectations, and this piece will be learnable.  Probably not the kind of piece you learn in one week.  However, your proposed date gives a reasonable time frame.