wake up at 3 am, ....*booomm*.... you play your program w/out warming up

[tds]

....and play fantastically too . has anyone done anything like that? tds

[tds]

one of the tests to see whether or not one is truly ready. disagree? tds

[lostinidlewonder]

Yes. I can do it even if im half asleep and in a coma too.

I could play all the notes, but I doubt i could get the bigger f sounds wihtout warming up, otherwise I'd kill my hands.

[Pianostudy]

Yep, thats a strategy my teacher says is good for testing to see if you're really ready to perform it, and if you really know the music.  Good one.

[puma]

It's as if you're already warmed up - you know where all the notes are, you know what to play, and you play it well.  I find I can only do this for something I've been really working hard at though (i.e. hours on end for the past couple of weeks or something).

[BoliverAllmon]

sounds like beethoven

[dinosaurtales]

I can only think of one reason to get up at 3 in the morning........

[tds]

those who wanna pee, go pee first. and this applies anyday, anytime ....yup, aaam talking to myself!

[Bacfokievrahms]

Yeah I'm pretty sure he meant waking up at 3 AM to read about dinosaurs.

[tds]

or mess round with other thing . oh no, i wont go that far tds

[will]

wake up at 3am, ....*booomm*.... you play your program and the cops show up w/out warning...

[earthward]

"boom" is right. That's the sound of me crashing and burning.  Or "splash" might be more appropriate as that's what I tend to do when I try to play without warming up.  I've reconciled myself to the fact that I will never be able to play w/out being thouroughly warmed up no matter how well I know a piece.  It always sucks the first time I play it during the day.

[tds]

this past 2 weeks, i've been playing thru my recital program twice a day everyday. it has gotten much more solid then ever.

starting tomorrow, as i got another program down under my belt, i'll be playing thru two recital programs (total 2 1/2 hours duration) twice a day each everyday.

the 3 am test is a piece of cake.

[tds]

try this, place a novel or an article or a textbook on the piano in front of you, and:

1. read SILENTLY when you play your program thru

2. read ORALLY when you play your program thru

note: naturally, use your own pace of reading.

now the question: can you do it?

i've done no. 1, and its aint hard at all. i cant do no. 2, tho. anyone?

[bearzinthehood]

Why is that even a good thing?  It teaches you to rely on muscle memory as opposed to an intellectual understanding of the piece.

[henrah]

try this, place a novel or an article or a textbook on the piano in front of you, and:

1. read SILENTLY when you play your program thru

Are you actually reading it though, taking it all in? I doubt you can multi task, i.e. reading a story and getting involved in the romantic tales and personal feelings etc whilst playing the music to a good standard and concentrating on it too, like dynamics etc. When you start to concentrate hard on one, i.e. the reading, your playing will certainly falter slightly, but it might not be noticeable. Sometimes this happens with me when I'm concentrating on singing out the melody in one of my hands and my other falters or loses its place/rhythm.
Henrah

But wait....are you a female??

[lufia]

if u learn ur whole piece through muscle memory it is wise to split ur piece up through muscle memory instead of playing the whole thing through memory. performance wise

[tds]

i suppose i have done the hard work on all the pieces before playing it thru twice a day this past two weeks or so. yeah, i've done stucture and harmonic analysis, ive figured out the best fingerings for myself, done quite a bit of mental practice, conducted the pieces ( tho only for the piano, i know, but its most helpful ), and all those goodies. and for our information, i have performed the program professionally more than a couple of times and critic raved about it. AND i wanna testify that this program is now in its best shape.

Are you actually reading it though, taking it all in? I doubt you can multi task, i.e. reading a story and getting involved in the romantic tales and personal feelings etc whilst playing the music to a good standard and concentrating on it too, like dynamics etc. When you start to concentrate hard on one, i.e. the reading, your playing will certainly falter slightly, but it might not be noticeable. Sometimes this happens with me when I'm concentrating on singing out the melody in one of my hands and my other falters or loses its place/rhythm.
Henrah

But wait....are you a female??

taking it all in. in fact, i am not even reading word by word, but doing more of grasping the core message ( its possible that i am reading it faster than usual ). i am aware that i am not in the usual state of mind when doing this multi tasking. but yeah, its easy and it comes quite naturally to me. ok, prolly, i am in a trance or in some hypnotized state of mind, coz i seem to understand alot and effortlessly ( more in spiritual plane, i am, i guess ). BUT, when i "try" to read it word by word out loud, i stop immediately and i know my perceiving system crashes down, unable to operate.

btw, i am male.

here are some benefits of playing your program thru twice a day everyday:

1. great stamina; you will not get exhausted in a real recital situation!
2. confidence; yeah, you'll feel it!
3. sharpened memory
4. longer concentration span
5. spontaneity: running thru your program twice every day tests YOU as a performer; things happen and you must react--you'll find yourself grateful to be very accustomed to this thing; OR you may wanna do a lil dynamic nuance on certain spots or finer details here and there--you are trained to do so.
6. you'll look forward to your recital! this is just a feeling, but those who perform may know its value.

[tds]

oh and btw, i dont warm up. uumm ...yeah i do. umm, no, not quite! yes, i do too! well, actually, yes, in a way, or yes, but not in the usual sense, like practicing hanon, scales, czerny, heller, etc etc  ( no thank you ). i 'use' and make music with my repertoire. as long as you know your capability, as long as you are the master of yourself, as long as you be gentle towards yourself, as long as you "listen to" your own bodily sensation, you can surely start your piano day without 'warming up' ( read: hanon, etc ). at least i can, 'been living without hanon and his 'siblings' for almost 10 years now.

[clef]

....and play fantastically too . has anyone done anything like that? tds

thats a good idea... I should try it some time I'm not sure my family would be too happy about it though...

[Bob]

Breezing through....

Yes, I've heard of middle of the night runs of the recital.  I don't remember if I did that or not.  Ouch.  I'm losing it.

Yes, I can talk and play or read and play.  It's fun to do sometimes.  It's not exactly fluent, but it takes up your "slack" attention and engrains the piece/technique a little more.

[steve jones]

Imo the TRUE test is to place your pieces when your hands are freezing cold. If I got out of bed at 3am (assuming Im in bed ofcourse!) then my hands would probably be thermally warm. Infact, I can play pretty well first thing in the morning.

Now, lets say Iv been working on the computer for a few hours...

My house is always cold, and with my hands exposed on the mouse and keyboard they get very parky. To play piano in this state I have to use almost 100% arm and wrist motion, as my fingers refuse to move above a snails pace.

This is the test for me. If I can get through a piece then, I know its in the bag.


But that said, I might get up at 3am and play for hours regardless. My family give me enough grief, so I might as well make it worth their while 

[pianowelsh]

wake up at 3am play your programme..... then have mental breakdown and spend several years in an asylum!! Its not a generally recommended approach and certainly not one any sane person should make a habit of (if only for the sake of the neighbours).  I have once got up at 4 am and tried it (on recommendation of a russian teacher and friend) I just played rubbish and suffered sleep depravation for the rest of the day - consequently my practice was rubbish! so i think it is of limited value and it only works for some people. A better test is getting up at 5 am doing a days work completely unrelated and just before you go to bed playing through programme.  BEcause in reality this is a more typical senario - if you are travelling and then have to do a concert or an audition and with the stress of the situation you will be more tired than you would be in a typical practice session.  So occassionally i would suggest trying my suggestion.

[tds]

wake up at 3am play your programme..... then have mental breakdown and spend several years in an asylum!!

awww, r u serious?  mental breakdown just from waking up at 3am trying to play your program thru? come on, that was tiny bit exaggerated, no?

lets face it, people wake up at funny 3 am doing various things 

[gruffalo]

you can do things like reciting the alphabet backwards, naming european car makes, whatever. doesnt have to be reading a book. do something that really makes you think while you play. it's really hard.

[tds]

if you cant hear yourself while doing all sorts of other things then it doesnt serve the purpose. i was originally trying to find another unconventional yet innovative way to polish your already learnt concert program. so yeah, again as long as it supports this end, all kinda things can be discussed here.

[gorbee natcase]

Is it possible you were practicing in your sleep, and because your hands are in a nice warm bed the blood was flowing more freely throgh them.

[kaiwin]

Wake me up that early and the streets will never be safe again. 

[tds]

Is it possible you were practicing in your sleep, and because your hands are in a nice warm bed the blood was flowing more freely throgh them.

actually right before we fall asleep, we pass thru, usually in the duration of a split second, the powerful thinking/knowing sphere. we can try to prolong this moment and do it so for our best learning advantage. is that roughly what you mean?

or you meant to hope for some magical dream that soon fixes everything you wish in your sleep? ( lol )

[tds]

Wake me up that early and the streets will never be safe again. 

or plan ahead and play program that has all the potentials to scare criminals....

[bennom]

try this, place a novel or an article or a textbook on the piano in front of you, and:

1. read SILENTLY when you play your program thru

2. read ORALLY when you play your program thru

note: naturally, use your own pace of reading.

now the question: can you do it?

i've done no. 1, and its aint hard at all. i cant do no. 2, tho. anyone?

tds,

I'm happy for you, congratulations, you've found a way to amuse yourself with a trick! That's great.

You can play and read a book at the same time. What does it mean?
It means you can actually play and read a book at the same time.
What's the artistic benefit of this? None.
You're actually encouraging pianists to f**k  the music, and concentrate on less valuable stuff. I've read through this thread a couple of times, and it makes me sick.

What's the benefit of being able to play your program without warming up? Well, it shows you're able to play your program without warming up. So WHAT?

Here's the true test for you: Try to get into the music deeper then you have done ever before, risk everything, even risk your mental health when you're performing, because you are going down completely in to the shadowland of inspired music making.

I'm not saying that you're not into the music (I couldn't know), I'm just saying:

stop thinking like a circus artist.

 

BennoM

[steveie986]

Amen Brother.

[tds]

tds,

I'm happy for you, congratulations, you've found a way to amuse yourself with a trick! That's great.

thank you, bennom. that's very kind of you. actually its not a trick per se, please read on

You can play and read a book at the same time. What does it mean?
It means you can actually play and read a book at the same time.
What's the artistic benefit of this? None.
You're actually encouraging pianists to f**k the music, and concentrate on less valuable stuff. I've read through this thread a couple of times, and it makes me sick.

What's the benefit of being able to play your program without warming up? Well, it shows you're able to play your program without warming up. So WHAT?

Here's the true test for you: Try to get into the music deeper then you have done ever before, risk everything, even risk your mental health when you're performing, because you are going down completely in to the shadowland of inspired music making.

I'm not saying that you're not into the music (I couldn't know), I'm just saying:

stop thinking like a circus artist.

its an unconventional yet innovative and highly personal exercises for memory and concentration solidification. high aesthatic ends can only be achieved after a long period of time, and thru series of hard works. making beliefs about creating deep music just by thinking itself and alone is really a dream in a dream.

 

BennoM

aww, stop crying dear bennom..... we love you
there, there...*offers a bar of chocolate*

[tds]

oh and btw, you can surely use hannon and practice your scales, if that makes you happy, ok? we just want everyone to be coo...

tds and his conscience

[bennom]

aww, stop crying dear bennom..... we love you
there, there...*offers a bar of chocolate*

 ... thanks, man!!! *stops crying, begins to lighten up* Now I feel better!!!

 making beliefs about creating deep music just by thinking itself and nothing else is really a dream in a dream.

Yeah... but here's a suggestion for you: try it anyway.


Living the dream in the dream, always,

BennoM

[tds]

Yeah... but here's a suggestion for you: try it anyway.


Living the dream in the dream, always,

BennoM

oh ok.....

wait, what suggestion was it!?

hey, r u pretty?

[bennom]

hey, r u pretty?

Yes.

oh ok.....

wait, what suggestion was it!?

Here's a bar of chocolate for you:

When I studied the festin d'esope by alkan for a broadcast concert (gulp!!!) I had to find a new way of playing, since the old passionate way of playing simply didn't work. I found I had to be totally psycopat-ice-cold in my mind when I performed it to other peole, otherwise it just went straight to hell.
So I practiced this, playing with absolutely no feeling at all, but with all the accents and extreme nuances of course. But, I always kept my concentration on the piece itself, I was sitting like a sphinx, but my focus was on the music.

Focus on the music = always good!!!!
No focus on music = always bad!!!!

(Are you following?)

When you try to be "cold-blooded" by reading a book at the same time that you're playing music, you're not only committing a crime against the muses that guard all our artistic activities. You're also creating a void in your brain, that will became a problem when you play it in public.

If you're getting yourself used to not being "in the music" while you play, you will find yourself thinking while performing. Good thoughts, bad thoughts, but most of all, BS that don't have anything to do with performing. And that is bad for performance.

*starts sobbing again*

 

BennoM

[tds]

When you try to be "cold-blooded" by reading a book at the same time that you're playing music, you're not only committing a crime against the muses that guard all our artistic activities. You're also creating a void in your brain, that will became a problem when you play it in public.

If you're getting yourself used to not being "in the music" while you play, you will find yourself thinking while performing. Good thoughts, bad thoughts, but most of all, BS that don't have anything to do with performing. And that is bad for performance.

dear bennom, your voice had been rather cute till you began to judge. i find that abit unfortunate. such words as cool blooded, creating a void, not-being-in-the-music, etc, are delivered without any justification and/or wisdom: just coz you can't do certain things doesnt mean everyone else can't; just coz you have to be cold blooded when playing music at the same time you are reading a book, does not mean that everyone else has to be cold blooded while doing both things simultaneously; just coz you have to create a void when multi tasking, does not mean that every human race in the planet must go thru the same process. Are you with me? not until you start to understand that everyone has different learning ability, that everyone has different ways in perceiving things, and that some brains are wired differently, will you be able to accept the fact that you can be grossly mistaken in this matter.

*starts sobbing again*

 

BennoM

aww...

ps. but, are you sexy?

[bennom]

ps. but, are you sexy?

Yes.

dear bennom, your voice had been rather cute till you began to judge. i find that abit unfortunate. such words as cool blooded, creating a void, not-being-in-the-music, etc, are delivered without any justification and/or wisdom: just coz you can't do certain things doesnt mean everyone else can't; just coz you have to be cold blooded when playing music at the same time you are reading a book, does not mean that everyone else has to be cold blooded while doing both things simultaneously; just coz you have to create a void when multi tasking, does not mean that every human race in the planet must go thru the same process. Are you with me? not until you start to understand that everyone has different learning ability, that everyone has different ways in perceiving things, and that some brains are wired differently, will you be able to accept the fact that you can be grossly mistaken in this matter.

I've already told you how happy I am for you! I'm not judging your performance. But if I was a teacher, and found a talented student sitting reading a book at the same time as he was practicing, I would smack him/her up. It is a crime!!! (It's ok to be judgemental if you're right... )

tds,

please continue with your habits, it's probably good for you.

...I'm just reacting to the fact that you're trying to spread the gospel of evil to other pianists... ( )

*suddenly realizes there won't be any more chocolate bars*

...but I guess everybody is different and have different needs!!!

(And that means: discussions are superfluous. Over and out.)

BennoM,

still living the dream in the dream

[tds]

I've already told you how happy I am for you! I'm not judging your performance.

actually its not about ( my ) performance. if you listen good, its about finding unconventional, yet innovative and personal ways for concentration and memory solidification.

But if I was a teacher, and found a talented student sitting reading a book at the same time as he was practicing, I would smack him/her up. It is a crime!!! (It's ok to be judgemental if you're right... )

i can only say: you are the teacher of your students. you have your policy. tho, be adviced, that there are times when you can be wrong even when you feel you are so right. some super talented kids are to outdo teachers.

please continue with your habits, it's probably good for you.

its seems like you are mellowing down a bit. is it for bars of chocolate? 

...I'm just reacting to the fact that you're trying to spread the gospel of evil to other pianists... ( )

forum is a colourful meeting place where people discuss and exchange ideas. my humble advice to you, please refrain from throwing judgements. again, not everything you are not pleased with automatically becomes the gospel of evil. the same token can be applied: not everything after your own heart must be the gospel of God ( not that you said that, but i deliberately put it there just so you know that your previous judgement (re. gospel of evil ) voices a kin absurdity )

*suddenly realizes there won't be any more chocolate bars*

...but I guess everybody is different and have different needs!!!

chocolate bars are available at requests 

there, finally you can guess right

(And that means: discussions are superfluous. Over and out.)


BennoM,

still living the dream in the dream

eerrr,...wait, someone living the dream in the dream tries to talk logics. i guess that sums it up!

ps. if you were only dreaming when said you were pretty and sexy, i'd be damned; am the biggest time waster on the planet 

[myotherself]

Try midnight to 5 am repertoire, everynight, scales, arpeggios, octaves, (release)!

[pianowelsh]

What i meant was - examine why you are wanting to get up 3 am to practice - it could just be that youve got a touch paranoid or obsessive about your programme to a degree which is verging on becoming unhealthy if sustained . Note I said I didnt beleive it was good to make it habitual. I didnt say Never do it. but as I mentioned i believe it has limited application as you arent ever going to be asked to play in the middle of the night. first thing in the morning (factoring in the travel time differences) and also doing it after an unrelated task.. these are far more real situations that we face.

[tds]

What i meant was - examine why you are wanting to get up 3 am to practice - it could just be that youve got a touch paranoid or obsessive about your programme to a degree which is verging on becoming unhealthy if sustained . Note I said I didnt beleive it was good to make it habitual. I didnt say Never do it. but as I mentioned i believe it has limited application as you arent ever going to be asked to play in the middle of the night. first thing in the morning (factoring in the travel time differences) and also doing it after an unrelated task.. these are far more real situations that we face.

its a test- please read the starting post. your talking about "real-situations-that-we-face" is nonsense. we face different things. tell me, how many concerts do you give a year? do you travel around the globe?

[timothy42b]

Here's a real life scenario that occurs every Sunday to many of us.  At any rate, to me.

We wake up from a peaceful sleep, realize that the sermon has ended, and we need to play the final hymn RIGHT NOW, cold with no warmup. 

This is a problem I have not solved, and I always fumble finger the first few lines until my fingers remember how to play.  Any advice would be welcome.

I used to have the same problem with Doxology because I have to play it cold after the offertory, and it's not long enough to ever get on track.  Last Sunday I was able to sit at the organ and play silently (no stops) and get warmed up.  That's harder with the sermon, as I sit in the pew. 

[thierry13]

Why is that even a good thing?  It teaches you to rely on muscle memory as opposed to an intellectual understanding of the piece.

You must use each types of memories. Including muscle memory. This trick helps reinforce it. Other tricks will improve other types of memories. Each type must be developed.

[henrah]

You must use each types of memories. Including muscle memory. This trick helps reinforce it. Other tricks will improve other types of memories. Each type must be developed.

Could you elaborate on the other types of memories and various tricks to develop them?
Thanks,
Henrah

[timothy42b]

Could you elaborate on the other types of memories and various tricks to develop them?
Thanks,
Henrah

Bernhard has covered the five types of memory quite well, maybe somebody can find the post.  I found it very helpful.

In particular, I've found that if I rely on muscle memory I risk crashing and burning during a performance, and if I once get off I can't find a starting point.  The more visual memory I have in place the more secure I am. 

[henrah]

In particular, I've found that if I rely on muscle memory I risk crashing and burning during a performance, and if I once get off I can't find a starting point.

That's the same problem I have, not being able to start from absolutely anywhere. So I guess that I work with mainly muscle memory.

When you say visual memory, do you mean visualising the score in your mind and playing off of that or setting up a various amount of things to think of that remind you of certain places in the score?