Rachmaninov's own recordings

[pseudopianist]

I have been listening to his own recordings and I can't really say I think they are all that great.

His concertos seem so rushed and works like the G minor prelude sounds very poor in the rhythm.

But he plays some of his works very amazing and esp his Chopin (Like the E flat brilliante waltz)

What are you opinions on his own recordings?

Here are some quick samples for you who haven't heard

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000001VHX/qid=1113581975/sr=8-4/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i4_xgl15/103-5801810-5473434?v=glance&s=classical&n=507846

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000041WS/qid=1113581975/sr=8-8/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i8_xgl15/103-5801810-5473434?v=glance&s=classical&n=507846 (How come some of the works have super sounds so they sound like they could have been played today... like Flight of The Bumble bee)

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000003FGS/qid=1113581975/sr=8-5/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i5_xgl15/103-5801810-5473434?v=glance&s=classical&n=507846

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000003FOO/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_4/103-5801810-5473434

[Dazzer]

its kinda one of those things where you'd rather not play a piece the way the composer heard it.

i remember from somewhere a quote from rachmaninov, stating "who says passion cannot be fast?" or something like that... not sure though could be wrong.

there's also a story of how he let someone perform one of his pieces, and it was so good that rachmaninov was so upset and never allowed it to be performed ever again. if i'm not wrong it might have been one of the concertos.

[BoliverAllmon]

its kinda one of those things where you'd rather not play a piece the way the composer heard it.

i remember from somewhere a quote from rachmaninov, stating "who says passion cannot be fast?" or something like that... not sure though could be wrong.

there's also a story of how he let someone perform one of his pieces, and it was so good that rachmaninov was so upset and never allowed it to be performed ever again. if i'm not wrong it might have been one of the concertos.

sounds like horowitz playing his 3rd. I tend to have a problem with composers playing their own pieces. they tend to be dry recordings. I think they are playing the piece well, but in reality it is all in their head.

[Dazzer]

Maybe they hear it differently ? they are the composers after all. everyone else are just their "conduits".

I tend to have a problem with composers playing their own pieces. they tend to be dry recordings. I think they are playing the piece well, but in reality it is all in their head.

you wouldn't want to hear my composition then... hahaha

[BoliverAllmon]

Maybe they hear it differently ? they are the composers after all. everyone else are just their "conduits".

you wouldn't want to hear my composition then... hahaha

I think they do hear it differently. I think they are probably singing it in their head. Also remember that they have that piece completely analyzed and all problems fixed in their head. They can sometimes hurridly blaze through these problems and the audience or listener doesn't have time to compute the problem and really hear the resolution. I think they are too involved in their music.

Does this make any sense at all?

[Dazzer]

would i get hurt if i said no?



well who cares... as long as the composition rawks its all fine and dandy.

[sonatainfsharp]

I often wonder if it is because of how we are used to hearing a piece. For example, I used to think of Chopin as very wet, but I have played a replica Chopin piano and it was so dry that it gives me an entirely new perspective on how Chopin should be played.

Maybe Rachy's own recordings are how the music SHOULD be, according to him, and every else plays it wrong?

(I personally LOVE his own recording of the g minor Prelude, if we are talking about the same recording.)

~~Sean.

[maxy]

Rachmaninov is one of the greatest pianists ever...

[Waldszenen]

Rachmaninov is one of the greatest pianists ever...

Agreed.

[Dazzer]

I often wonder if it is because of how we are used to hearing a piece. For example, I used to think of Chopin as very wet, but I have played a replica Chopin piano and it was so dry that it gives me an entirely new perspective on how Chopin should be played.

Maybe Rachy's own recordings are how the music SHOULD be, according to him, and every else plays it wrong?

(I personally LOVE his own recording of the g minor Prelude, if we are talking about the same recording.)

~~Sean.

how can you say we all play it wrong? that's such an unfair statement.
so every other pianist out there, richter, argerich, ashkenazy etc. all these great pianists are playing rachmaninov WRONG? what is WRONG? can you define WRONG?

if everyone played like rachmaninov, we'd all be rachmaninov. and we're not , are we?

[Bacfokievrahms]

I'm Bacfokievrahms?

[BoliverAllmon]

would i get hurt if i said no?



well who cares... as long as the composition rawks its all fine and dandy.

oh well if it doesn't make sense. at least it does in my head.

[fnork]

Pseudo: Some of the recordings sound better because they were recorded on mechanical piano rolls, which have been reproduced with better recording equipment and better pianos.

You HAVE TO check out this site if you haven't already: https://classic.manual.ru/
It's got lots of Rachmaninov mp3s, some of them when he's playing with violinist Fritz Kreisler. Check out when they're playing Griegs 3rd sonata, it's awesome. That site has all of Rachs concertos where he plays himself, and also recordings by others playing his music. There's also a lot of other russian music on that site.

And check out his recording of Chopins 2nd sonata on that site. First movement is great.

[SteinwayTony]

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000041WS/qid=1113581975/sr=8-8/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i8_xgl15/103-5801810-5473434?v=glance&s=classical&n=507846 (How come some of the works have super sounds so they sound like they could have been played today... like Flight of The Bumble bee)

If you see Ampico, that indicates that it's a transfer from piano rolls Rachmaninoff made.  It's going to sound better, because it's not him recording; it's a reproducing piano, as mentioned above.

[thierry13]

Your reflection , Boliver, does make a lot of sense. BUT, we are not playing Rachmaninoff WRONG. We are playing it differently. Every pianist has a different interpretation of a work, may he be the composer or not.  Rachmaninoff was the first to admit it when someone played his works in a good way, same if it was not his own interpretation. If we all play it wrong, it's like saying there is only ONE way to play a piece, and that there IS a perfect interpretation. Both are false statements. So now, does it makes a little more sense?

[pseudopianist]

Oh! It is from pianorolls. That makes more sense.

Thank fnork for this amazing site... yet I don't seem to find the piano concertos. Maybe I should brush up on my russian. 

[fnork]

Oh, you don't need to work on your russian at all. As you should notice, all of the text is indeed in russian, but all of the link-names are in english. So in the meny on the left with all of the composers names, the links are all in english. Good luck in finding everything

[Dazzer]

Your reflection , Boliver, does make a lot of sense. BUT, we are not playing Rachmaninoff WRONG. We are playing it differently. Every pianist has a different interpretation of a work, may he be the composer or not.  Rachmaninoff was the first to admit it when someone played his works in a good way, same if it was not his own interpretation. If we all play it wrong, it's like saying there is only ONE way to play a piece, and that there IS a perfect interpretation. Both are false statements. So now, does it makes a little more sense?

did you mean SonataInfSharp, not Boliver?

[maxy]

I often wonder if it is because of how we are used to hearing a piece. For example, I used to think of Chopin as very wet, but I have played a replica Chopin piano and it was so dry that it gives me an entirely new perspective on how Chopin should be played.

Maybe Rachy's own recordings are how the music SHOULD be, according to him, and every else plays it wrong?

(I personally LOVE his own recording of the g minor Prelude, if we are talking about the same recording.)

~~Sean.

Rach himself admitted that some other pianists (Gieseking, Horowitz...) could play some of his own stuff better.  He was open-minded about different interpretations.

[pseudopianist]

Oh, you don't need to work on your russian at all. As you should notice, all of the text is indeed in russian, but all of the link-names are in english. So in the meny on the left with all of the composers names, the links are all in english. Good luck in finding everything

Yeah I figured that one out but I can't seem to find the links for the concertos. 

[nomis]

I have been listening to his own recordings and I can't really say I think they are all that great.

His concertos seem so rushed and works like the G minor prelude sounds very poor in the rhythm.

But he plays some of his works very amazing and esp his Chopin (Like the E flat brilliante waltz)

What are you opinions on his own recordings?

You have to remember that Rachmaninov was born in the 19th century, which had very different performance traditions compared to now. If you listen to his Chopin Waltzes, they contain an incredible amount of rubato that you won't hear in his other recordings. This is likely due to that he was being faithful to the composer that was then regarded to have played like Padrewski, with an infinite amount of rubato and breaking of the hands.

As for the concertos, they had a bastard of a chairman at RCA who considered not even recording anything from Rachmaninov! What a loss that would be! Thankfully, some sane engineer managed to persuade the CEO to allow them to record. Even so, RCA rejected the idea of recital programs for recordings, which was a great loss.

The 3rd concerto was especially rushed, because the chairman was present at the recording (see The Flying Inkpot for more info: https://inkpot.com/classical/rachplaysrachn.html ). Also, recording in the past was chopped up into 4:30 minute sessions - it's hard to maintain any kind of spontaneity or continuity. Despite that, his 2nd concerto (1929) is probably the best recording of it, and his other concerti are quite good too.

As for his solo recordings, I find his recordings of his own works quite metronomically strict, as if he were recording for future generations. But his other recordings are fantastic (Scherzo 3 and Ballade 3 by Chopin come to mind).

[thierry13]

did you mean SonataInfSharp, not Boliver?

yeah i meant boliver , look :

I think they do hear it differently. I think they are probably singing it in their head. Also remember that they have that piece completely analyzed and all problems fixed in their head. They can sometimes hurridly blaze through these problems and the audience or listener doesn't have time to compute the problem and really hear the resolution. I think they are too involved in their music.

Does this make any sense at all?

 

[Steve T]

Thanks Fnork,
That's an amazing site. Top artists. Some of the Horowitz is to die for, thanks.

[BoliverAllmon]

yeah i meant boliver , look :


 

I wasn't necessarily saying that we play Rachmaninoff wrong, I think Rachmaninoff (and other composers) played for themselves at times and not the audience. Other pianists would come along and play for the audience and that makes the recording that much better.

boliver