the hammerklavier

[Skeptopotamus]

Beethoven's Sonata No. 29 Op. 106 "Hammerklavier" seems to be often regarded as an EXTREMELY difficult piece.  Could someone please explain why?  I'm just not seeing the difficulty in it, and i sat down with it for a bit and wasnt finding any passages that i would have trouble with.  Is it just the length of the piece that makes it such a marathon?

[mikeyg]

Hokay Hamelin... 

[Skeptopotamus]

hahaha....... yeah



sorry mikeyG- I play Alkan, and a lot of it.  This is like..... nothing in comparison.  I'm not trying to show off or something; I'm being completely serious.  There are only a few passages that I would classify as REALLY tough. 

Oh, and thanx for you on-topic, helpful, constructive input btw.  and the rolling eyes- are stupid.

[etudes]

sorry that i dont know the difficult in it too (coz i never look at a score)
i think this piece regards as one of the most difficult in beethoven sonata or all repertoire bcoz of lenth yeah i think u need a mind to make the whole sonata completely connect as a one story (for me)
and the musical in it also very high not just only note (for me to play all not is still too difficult  ) it demands very high musicality and technique to bring the piece as a really good performance
let see what some great pianist said about that
i think Busoni said that 1 life is not enough to play this sonata !! (well.indeed i think busoni is better than you) 
and i also think H. Neuhaus said than he learnt in 6 days (with memorize)but never play it good enough for him on stage ! (well.again H.Neuhaus teach Gilels and Richter) (and i think all of these are better than you) (no war i just post my things)
regards

[etudes]

and last thing
i'm sure that you are that great! so just play it on stage (maybe u will find why every pianist said that's difficult)
and u need a lot of mental practise to play the whole thing 

[Skeptopotamus]

THANK YOU ETUDES YOU ARE MY TOTAL HERO!!!!!!!!  seriously!!!  thank you so so much for putting some thought and constructiveness in your post.  people on here should be more like you, seriously.


*hugs etudes tightly*

[etudes]

you are welcome
btw do you have a score of Bowen Toccata (great piece) I'm crazy with that piece (even i listen from midi  )
regards

[Skeptopotamus]

actually i do have the sheets for it on the computer!  well, MY computer i do.  im not on mine right now, but i know you can get it off of the internet on the gamingforce site.  i cant get the URL right now cause this is dialup and it sucks, but if you are willing to wait a couple of days when i get back home i would love to send it to you.

[etudes]

No problem. Thank you so much
i can wait for that (btw if u have a recording with real pianist i would be glad to have it)
thanks
sorry that i hijacked your thread
regards

[Skeptopotamus]

dont worry- this thread was going to hell anyways.


i have three recordings of the bowen toccata


Hough
Brown
me ^^


ill send em all to you.

[etudes]

thank so much
i would put u on the top of the playlist and play it first lol.

[Skeptopotamus]

oh

i also have Park

[mikeyg]

Alright. 

It took Liszt, a person who could listen to anything and play it nearly perfectly, MONTHS to learn the Hammerklavier. 

So, you may be very good, and certainly ALOT better than me, but you are nowhere near as talented as Liszt.  I say this confidently, and without needing to hear you're recordings.

[etudes]

Alright.

It took Liszt, a person who could listen to anything and play it nearly perfectly, MONTHS to learn the Hammerklavier.

So, you may be very good, and certainly ALOT better than me, but you are nowhere near as talented as Liszt. I say this confidently, and without needing to hear you're recordings.

i dont want to have war here
btw as i said that it depends on how the result you want
maybe liszt can play through it with flawless technique at the first sight
but he need more on musicality on every details of the piece
and i dont think if you say any one who can learn that sonata faster than liszt is better than liszt compare with H.Neuhaus (learnt it in 6 days!) coz u never heard the result of liszt after one month of learning this sonata
peace
regards.

[mikeyg]

That doesn't change the fact that it is still EXTREMELY difficult.

[etudes]

That doesn't change the fact that it is still EXTREMELY difficult.

yes ! of course.
i never said that Hammerklavier is easy
regards

[mikeyg]

I was more or less speaking about skepto's comments.

Peace

[etudes]

ach so
ok ok
peace too.
dont want to have a war on piano board.
regards

[Skeptopotamus]

><


i never said it was easy.  i said it wasnt as hard as people say.  if i have to say this one more time im going to murder something.

[mikeyg]

I'm just not seeing the difficulty in it, and i sat down with it for a bit and wasnt finding any passages that i would have trouble with.

Sorry if I miinterpreted this as you saying that you didn't think it was that hard.

[Skeptopotamus]

im not seeing it as being as difficult as people say it is.

[steinwayguy]

OK everybody on this thread has said "omg the hammerklavier is sooooooooo hard how could you say it easy" without listing a reason why it's hard.

Skeptopotamus- Try fingering the fugue. In fact, try to do it in the two weeks.

It won't happen.

[Skeptopotamus]

ok how bout this;  this ought to solve all of the problems between these two rediculous posts.


What if I learn the Scherzo in 2 weeks, then post the recording on here?  will this shut everyone up?

so someone give me a good enough reason to do it and i will.



well, im going to bed.  nite nite

[Bacfokievrahms]

Do it for justice and love.

[ahmedito]

Record the fugue. And please play the first movement anywhere near the required metronome markings. And while you are at it, I better hear all those inner voices moving around

[Siberian Husky]

do it for justice, love, and George W Bush

[steinwayguy]

ok how bout this; this ought to solve all of the problems between these two rediculous posts.


What if I learn the Scherzo in 2 weeks, then post the recording on here? will this shut everyone up?

so someone give me a good enough reason to do it and i will.



well, im going to bed. nite nite

You could probably learn the scherzo in two days, good God. Why don't you learn any of the other movements in two weeks.

[Rach3]

Not that I could play Hammerklavier anytime soon - but I'm quite certain the Scherzo is the easy movement. In fact i've sight read through it. If you say you don't understand why the first movement is hard... then I'm really not sure what to tell you.

-Rach3

[pianomann1984]

The first movement requires a huge sense of scale/space & time, but without losing a sense of movement and excitement.   The Scherzo is fairly straightforward Beethoven if you play a lot and are used to working to his scrupulous details.  The slow movement is exquisite, and the fugue is immense, and very difficult.  On top of this there is achieving the sense of massively scaled architecture that links across all of the movements.  This is why it is so difficult.

[argerich_smitten]

Though I really haven't worked on it, I feel reletively confident in saying Hammer is perhaps the most emotionally complex piece performed, maybe by a large margin.  I also think that the technical problems seem easier than they are because though they don't look like much (well, at least in comparison to some things), there is no 'falling in the fingers'.  Like the Brahms pag variations or something; they don't look too horrible, but they are incredibly hard.  Liszt and Alkan even more so are very virtuosic, (i've played almost no alkan, just making an educated guess) but aren't hard in the way the brahms is.  They require a lot of technique to play, but once you have the technique you are home free.  Not really so in the Brahms, and hammer klavier is like this.  It will never be easy. 

Anyway i think the true difficulty lies more in the emotional complexity of the piece than the technical issues. 

[geez i rambled more randomly than usual even]