schumann.

[klavierkonzerte]

why do we never talk about his pieces?
he's my favorite piano composer i think he's more original and innovative than chopin and liszt
i just can't have enought of him , last monday i bought the first series of his works by dover and i'd have to say that i have never enjoyed the piano as i'm enjoying it now  i read throught the concerto sans orchester, davidsbundler or somthing like that, the allegro in B minor and carnaval and i loved all of them
i can't get my self to finish a concerto or a sonata and i can't find a serious and virtuosic short pieces so he's just perfect for me.

i just wanted to start a discussion about him.

by the way how hard is his third sonata (concerto sans orchestre)?

[bernhard]

I totally agree. Schumann is my favourite romantic composer, and I for one would love to see more of it discussed in the forum.

Perhaps one of the reasons he is seldom mentioned is because most of his pieces look and sound very easy abut are actually very difficult to play (a characteristic he shares with Brahms), and the ideal piece as we all know are the ones that look and sound difficult but are actually very easy to play.

Anyway, there are a few threads that mention him. Have a look here:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3865.msg34994.html#msg34994
(Schumann’s music – Album blatter and bunte blatter)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,121.msg23875.html#msg23875
(Schumann’s Carnaval)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3483.msg30895.html#msg30895
(Widmung)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4285.msg39828.html#msg39828
(Abegg variations)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4494.msg42038.html#msg42038
(The poet speaks – ornamentation)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2314.msg19869.html#msg19869
(Schumann’s Album for the young)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[missmarple]

He is one of my favourite composers as well. I've played his Kinderscenen (probably wrong spelling though), two of his Fantasiestucke - Des Abends and Aufschwung and now I play Faschingsschwank aus Wien.

I'm preparing Chopin's 10/5 and Faschingsschwank's first movement, Allegro for a competition. I think that Allegro is a great piece, it has some great positive energy.

[Chrysalis]

i like the schumann arabesque very much

it is totally awesome
and i like his

kinderszenen and waldszenen

[hodi]

his piano sonatas are neglected, they are very beautiful IMO. especially his Sonata in G Minor op.22.

[Waldszenen]

Here's another Schumann fan.


At the moment my favourite pieces of his are the 2nd and 3rd Symphonies and the Cello Concerto.

[paris]

i'm not his big fan, i don't like very much his music, but i agree that we talk on this forum mostly about liszt, beethoven, chopin...and we leave poor schummi 

my teacher who teaches me history of music told that schumman in the end of his life went crazy. he was constantly in his head hear tone 'a'.  they put him in sanatory. that's what i heard about him. i'd like to know more about him, but still, i'm not his fan.

[bachmaninov]

I've played his Fantasiestuke. And i would like to play his Toccata. 

His Concerto isn't that great IMO though. It is like i've heard it somewhere before...
i.e - Grieg

[maxy]

  Grieg was inspired by Schumann's concerto...

Schumann did some wonderful works, I am not too crazy about his 3rd sonata, but Kreisleriana, Carnaval op 9 and the fantasy are all superb.  For some reason I am starting to like the Humoresque... 

Ironically, I find his best piano score is in the lieder. (I know I am not alone) Dichterliebe has a wonderful piano part that all piano "fans" should try.

[Glyptodont]

I like Schumann also.  As a player  I am approx. "late intermediate."  Some of his short pieces are nice bite-sized items that I can learn in a fairly short time.  Like his "Album Leaves."  I am not certain, but I suspect that Shumann wrote many of these for his piano students.  They are too slight and brief to be useful as concert pieces.

Much if not most of Schumann is too hard for me.  But like Hansel and Gretel, he has left a trail of breadcrumbs for me to follow.

[bernhard]

  Like his "Album Leaves."  I am not certain, but I suspect that Shumann wrote many of these for his piano students.  They are too slight and brief to be useful as concert pieces.

They make nice encores.

He actually wrote them (by Clara's suggestion) to make money. Clara said that he should write something easier than his usual fare,  for the amateur pianists out there, or his pieces would just keep gathering dust on the shelves of the publishers.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[whynot]

I LOVE the songs.  To play, sing, listen to, all of it. 

[pianomann1984]

My favourite works of Schumann are Kreisleriana, Carnival & the Etudes Symphoniques.  They are awesome, even if Schumann's harmonic language is a little quirky at times! 

[ch1525]

I think his Symphonic Etudes are fantastic.  Maurizio Pollini's recording of them is superb.

[steinwayguy]

There aren't many pieces I like more than the Symphonic Etudes...

[apion]

Schumann is one of my alltime faves ........ but his orchestration skills have been impeached frequently ......... nevertheless, his A Minor piano concerto remains among my top 10!!!!         

[will]

Perhaps one of the reasons he is seldom mentioned is because most of his pieces look and sound very easy abut are actually very difficult to play (a characteristic he shares with Brahms), and the ideal piece as we all know are the ones that look and sound difficult but are actually very easy to play.

Exactly.
Also, many of his works do not feel good to play. I find Schumann's pieces do not lay nicely under the hands and feel awkward to play.

[hodi]

in most of schumann's difficult pieces (most schumann's pieces are  difficult)
u can find 10th and 11th
i wanted to play grillen from fantasiestucke (probably i didn't spell it correctly)
but it requires huge hands

[Glissando]

Totally love Schumann here..
Love Davidsbundlertanze, Kinderszenen, and Waldszenen. (MUST learn all those cycles!) Think I should probably go in order of: Kinder, Walds, and then the Davids- Bernhard, whereabouts are these pieces graded?
His chamber music is awesome, too- Andante Und Variationen in B Flat Major, Op.46, is really nice (current fav. of mine ).

[senecalakeguy]

i have just started Faschingsschwank aus Wien Op. 26 yesterday and i love it!  i like all of the Schumann that i have played and studied.  Kreisleriana, parts of Carnaval, the 3 romances, the piano sonatas, the concerto, the chamber music, and smaller pieces as well.  outstanding music, and so poetic!

[alextryan]

Someone please tell me what they know/think about the Introduction and Allegro Appassionato Op. 92!!!  I want to play it, but all this talk if "looks easy, is hard" is making me nervous!! 

[sharon_f]

I also love Schumann. I am hoping to work on Papillons this year and next year I would like to learn the Abegg Variations, which is one of my favorite pieces to listen to along with the Davidsblunder and Carnaval.

[pianowelsh]

Schumann is great. So few people play his romances which are lovely little pieces and not too hard! Kreisleriana is stunning.  About his concerto without orchestra - why do people not play it - my housemate played me the first movement it was spell binding (how long is the whole piece?) - maybe this is why he dosent get mentioned as some of his major pieces are SO long - (not too long) but long to put in a balanced programme?!?!?!

[rohansahai]

CONCLUSION !! Most of us love Schumann as much as the other romantics, but just that there isn't much in his music to talk about !!!

[iumonito]

Not much to talk about?  Schumann, the only romantic composer, the one who fathered Brahms, the one who propelled the poetic in music from the ruins of Beethoven's legacy into the constellations?  Schumann, the creator of a tightly knit vocabulary of musical references, the trinity of genius, host of Florestan, Eusebius and Maestro Raro?  The decadent and the visionary.  Is that the Schumann there is little to talk about?

You caught me in the mood.  Let's just do a little bit of Kinderszenen.  It looks very much like a collection of short tone poems (or is it a suite?).  Down to the knitty-gritty, you will find variations on at least two themes (the first an ascending sixth followed by a decesending scale, the other, the name of no other than Bach).  At the same time, there is a fairy tale being told in the background, from there was once upon a time to and they lived happily ever after, complete with a boogie-man, toy riding horse, a game of tag, a tantrum rewarded by a new gift, etc.

Layer upon layer of literary references, references to other works (really, signs placed carefully for the amusement and understanding of his inner circle), and the obligatory invocation of Beethoven right at the end, as if weaving Bach invisibly through the piece was not enough.

All child's play.

[markov]

Yes Schumann is so often neglected that when I tried to convince my highschool orchestra conductor to let me play his piano concerto in a with the orchestra, he was like "Which concerto? didnt he have like nine?"

So I ended up playing it with a youth symphony in our area.

And I dare say I enjoyed the piece very much.
 

[Nightscape]

Wow, there are more Schumann fans than I would expect!  Almost all of my friends dislike him intensely..... in fact I have one friend who left a recital during intermission because there was Schumann programmed in the second half.  (Mind you, these friends are not musicians, but they do enjoy classical music.)

Anyways, I like his music in small doses.... I especially like the Scenes from Childhood.  But I must confess that I went to an all Schumann recital once and constantly found my mind wandering despite my best efforts to stay focused.  I think there is a schizophrenic quality to his music - extreme contrasts between and within movements that can make it difficult to follow and understand for some people.  For others, however, it is more proof of his genius I think.

[hodi]

schumann was insane, he had many mental problems, and maybe that's the reason why his music is so great, it's so insane,unique,psychotic.
one of the stories about schumann is why he wrote his last composition:


 "One night he suddenly left his bed, saying that Schubert and Mendelssohn had sent him a theme which he must write down, and on this theme he wrote five variations for the pianoforte, his last work"

[Dazzer]

i was just relistening to his concerto again... its great.

gonna start finding his sheet music...

[markov]

i was just relistening to his concerto again... its great.

gonna start finding his sheet music...

I especially enjoy the Zimmermann version with the Berlin Phil.

[pianomann1984]

Dinu Lipatti!

[bernhard]

Not much to talk about?  Schumann, the only romantic composer, the one who fathered Brahms, the one who propelled the poetic in music from the ruins of Beethoven's legacy into the constellations?  Schumann, the creator of a tightly knit vocabulary of musical references, the trinity of genius, host of Florestan, Eusebius and Maestro Raro?  The decadent and the visionary.  Is that the Schumann there is little to talk about?

You caught me in the mood.  Let's just do a little bit of Kinderszenen.  It looks very much like a collection of short tone poems (or is it a suite?).  Down to the knitty-gritty, you will find variations on at least two themes (the first an ascending sixth followed by a decesending scale, the other, the name of no other than Bach).  At the same time, there is a fairy tale being told in the background, from there was once upon a time to and they lived happily ever after, complete with a boogie-man, toy riding horse, a game of tag, a tantrum rewarded by a new gift, etc.

Layer upon layer of literary references, references to other works (really, signs placed carefully for the amusement and understanding of his inner circle), and the obligatory invocation of Beethoven right at the end, as if weaving Bach invisibly through the piece was not enough.

All child's play.

Well said!

It is difficult to come up with another composer with such a multi-layered, complex music, and yet it looks and sounds deceptively simple on the surface. It is possible to write volumes on each single piece by Schumann if one decides to investigate all the links with literature, personal history, music itself and so on. Schumann is absolutely satisfying in all levels: emotional, intellectual, physical, and spiritual.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[maxy]

.... I find third sonata just too crazy on all levels...emotional, intellectual, physical, and spiritual.      but I do agree for most of the other pieces.  Schumann can be very special and it has to be played to be fully appreciated.

[JamesS]

It is difficult to come up with another composer with such a multi-layered, complex music, and yet it looks and sounds deceptively simple on the surface. It is possible to write volumes on each single piece by Schumann if one decides to investigate all the links with literature, personal history, music itself and so on. Schumann is absolutely satisfying in all levels: emotional, intellectual, physical, and spiritual.

I completely agree. An area of Schumann's music that i have recently become intrigued in is his links with German literature of the time. In particular the inspiration behind Kriesleriana. Kriesleriana is in fact inspired by the writing of E.T.A Hoffmann in his book The life and opinions of the Tomcat Murr. In the book the story teller narrates the story of Kapellmeister Kriesler however the storytellers cat is also writing his own autobiography and uses the storytellers manuscript as blotting paper. The result is a very fragmented book that continually moves from the story of Kriesler to that of the cat.

The depth of the inspiration is quite amazing, Krielseriana actually reflects the structure of the book, if you look at the music carefully it is very fragmented. Another idea brought up in the book is that of the split personality and the Doppelganger, this of course relates to Schumann's own Floristan and Eusebius, in fact the character of Kriesler is very similar to that of Schumann.

Another character in the book goes by the name of Chiara, she is a young woman who is hald captive and made to perform magic tricks by the magician Severino. It is almost certain that Schumann related Chiara to Clara Wieck. Especially as at the time Clara's father wouldn't let them marry.

The links between book and music don't end there, there are many more, for example descriptions in the book of Kriesler improvising which resemble very much the music of Kriesleriana.

Anyway I have gone on long enough, just thought it might be interesting!

J

[xvimbi]

I completely agree. An area of Schumann's music that i have recently become intrigued in is his links with German literature of the time. In particular the inspiration behind Kriesleriana. Kriesleriana is in fact inspired by the writing of E.T.A Hoffmann in his book The life and opinions of the Tomcat Murr. In the book the story teller narrates the story of Kapellmeister Kriesler however the storytellers cat is also writing his own autobiography and uses the storytellers manuscript as blotting paper. The result is a very fragmented book that continually moves from the story of Kriesler to that of the cat.

The depth of the inspiration is quite amazing, Krielseriana actually reflects the structure of the book, if you look at the music carefully it is very fragmented. Another idea brought up in the book is that of the split personality and the Doppelganger, this of course relates to Schumann's own Floristan and Eusebius, in fact the character of Kriesler is very similar to that of Schumann.

Another character in the book goes by the name of Chiara, she is a young woman who is hald captive and made to perform magic tricks by the magician Severino. It is almost certain that Schumann related Chiara to Clara Wieck. Especially as at the time Clara's father wouldn't let them marry.

The links between book and music don't end there, there are many more, for example descriptions in the book of Kriesler improvising which resemble very much the music of Kriesleriana.

KrEIsler, not KrIEsler!

... just thought it might be interesting!

Yes, indeed, very much so. Thanks 

[JamesS]

KrEIsler, not KrIEsler!

Ooops, spelling never was my strong point...! 

Glad it was of interest!

J

[freddychopin]

I love Liszt's transcriptions of Schumann's pieces more than I love Shumann's pieces, but I totally agree on Schumann being underrated.

[wintervind]

 :)this topic made my day!
I am so glad to see a topic on Schumann last for more than just a few posts
I agree with everything said above (except the negative stuff ) His music is THE true representation of the romantic movement and contains so many layers and complexities that are truly satisfying to play and to listen to!

[stormx]

Hi !!

I love Schumann's music. 

By the way, why are his 3 sonatas so underrated (or underplayed)? 
IMHO, they are excellent (the first one being my favourite).

On the other hand, probably because i am learning some of its pieces, i find his "Album for the Young" really beautiful.

[hodi]

bump!
how hard is kreisleriana? i want more info about this piece..

[hodi]

bump
schumann rulez

[m1469]

Okay.  I can't help myself.  I don't have much to actually add to this thread other than, having recently done a minimal amount of looking into his Kinderscenen and a miniscule fraction more about his life, I think I might be utterly in love.  I caught this glimpse of him that I had never seen before, and realized that I had never imagined before what there is to him and to his music. 

He is a very deep thinker, it would seem.  I find myself to have much compassion for him and for his life.  Actually, he he, I even cried when I realized this stuff.

I will admit a couple more things now.  I have, for some reason,  never known how to 'take him' as a composer.  He has so much vocal output as well as his pianistic works.  And, even though other composers like Haydn and Beethoven, etc. have composed for orchestras and these things, to have Schumann be such a vocal composer confused me.  Even though I am a vocalist as well.  I wonder if this is how other people feel, generally, if they do not dig too much into his music ?  And, perhaps, he does not get as much recognition for his pianisitc works as other composers because of this, in part ? His presence within the world is just calmer, quieter, it seems.

I have done a little reading recently, as I mentioned before, and I cannot remember where I read this (otherwise I would just quote), but it talked about Schumann not seeing the instruments or the musics for both piano and voice as separate things, but more like an outgrowth from the same source.  In essence, they express something that came from the same place, to him.  While I have always had this very feeling somewhere deep within me, and expressed this in a thread regarding interpretation (which I started awhile back), I had never really consciously considered it before in such a way that helped me to "close the gap" in my own dilemmas between voice and piano.

I also think that books and people tend to exploit and over-dramatize "his" "mental illness".  I think that so many of the things he struggled with were simply human struggles, and if he had not "ended up" having been labled as "insane", people would not write in his biographies things like "... and on our left here, we have signs of his future mental struggles.  See this ?  Isn't that impressive ?  buy my book, okay ?"... he he.  GIVE THE GUY A BREAK  !!!  He was just working through life, just like the rest of us. There is just more to him than these kinds of descrpitions can give us, I believe.   

In the very least, I would like to know him.



m1469

[hodi]

He is a very deep thinker, it would seem.  I find myself to have much compassion for him and for his life.  Actually, he he, I even cried when I realized this stuff.

I

me too. i read  a lot about schumann lately. his life is very interesting. his son wrote a biography about his life and family life, would be an interesting read but this book is hard to get. in amazon it's out of stock.
his music is so original! and beautiful!

[m1469]

me too. i read  a lot about schumann lately. his life is very interesting. his son wrote a biography about his life and family life, would be an interesting read but this book is hard to get. in amazon it's out of stock.
his music is so original! and beautiful!

Well, I don't even know what is his son's name  (though I could probably figure that out).  I am sure the title has "Schumann" in it, but would you mind sharing that information of what exactly the title is ? 

I want to search for it... well, really though, I want to find it 


Thanks,
m1469

[hodi]

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1878156012/qid=1128200354/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-6068987-5146230?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[m1469]

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1878156012/qid=1128200354/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-6068987-5146230?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Thank you 

[burstroman]

I'm glad to hear of so many Schumann fans.  When I look over concert programs, I come to the conclusion that he must be rather"out of fashion today".  As if fashion means anything.  One of the best recordings of Carnaval is by Casadesus, especially at the end. My favorite piece by Schumann is Vogels al Prophete (sp?) absolutely ethereal,from the Waldscenen.

[arensky]

I'm glad to hear of so many Schumann fans.  When I look over concert programs, I come to the conclusion that he must be rather"out of fashion today".  As if fashion means anything.  One of the best recordings of Carnaval is by Casadesus, especially at the end. My favorite piece by Schumann is Vogels al Prophete (sp?) absolutely ethereal,from the Waldscenen.

Casadesus is an extraordinary Schumann interpreter imo. Have you heard his Papilons and Etudes Symphoniques? You should if you haven't, you will enjoy them too. I think Scumann is out of fashion too, he doesn't show up much on programs lately; don't worry, the pendulum will swing back....

[dreamplaying]

A Schumann fan for sure.

He got perfection in several forms, liedes, camera music, etc. I think Mendelhson had no choise in creating his song without word since Schumann had reached a perfect amalgamation of voice and piano in his liedes.

I find all his music highly expressive  and suggestive, all his fellings translated into music phrases, every thought into music language... He is certainly my favourite composer.

[dmk]

Casadesus is an extraordinary Schumann interpreter imo. Have you heard his Papilons and Etudes Symphoniques? You should if you haven't, you will enjoy them too. I think Scumann is out of fashion too, he doesn't show up much on programs lately; don't worry, the pendulum will swing back....

....I wish the pendulum would swing back....the funny thing is, ive been hearing ALOT of Kreisleriana programmed lately, very weird!!

dmk