Rachmaninoff's 1st sonata?

[musicsdarkangel]

I have had trouble for so long finding a recording of Rachmaninoff's 1st sonata in d minor, anywhere, online.

I want to hear it before buying it.

How is this sonata?  Is it nearly as great as his second?

[Goldberg]

I'm not in the best position to judge Rachmaninoff's music, seeing as I have a strong aversion, but my own opinion is that the D minor sonata is actually superior to the Bb minor one. Again, I do not claim to have a profound understanding of either piece, or indeed much experience with either one, but I have heard both a significant number of times, and find that the D minor sonata, although it *is* long-winded in a few spots, is more structurally sensical and enjoyably coherent than the second sonata. I am also more sympathetic to the thematic material, myself. It's really quite a powerful work, and more, I admit, in what I would consider a Rachmaninoffian idiom than the Bb minor one---as if *I* would know (the second one seems too like Prokofiev, I think, which is fine except I wouldn't consider it an enormous success personally).

But the 2nd one sure has its moments as well, for sure, I don't mean to downplay it too much. The sonatas  are certainly amongst Rachmaninoff's better compositions in my mind.

And, no, I don't have a recording of it anymore--it was on my old, virus-infested piece of junk computer that's no longer with us...but I think there's a place to download it free somewhere...what the hell do I know...

[joell12068]

I have had trouble for so long finding a recording of Rachmaninoff's 1st sonata in d minor, anywhere, online.

I want to hear it before buying it.

How is this sonata?  Is it nearly as great as his second?

PM me and I'll send it to you. 

I think it's a great sonata.  The piano writing is quite similar in style to the third concerto.

[Bacfokievrahms]

There's an online version at
https://www.christineyoshikawa.com/audio.html

But it's probabyl low quality audio.

I'm not in the best position to judge Rachmaninoff's music, seeing as I have a strong aversion, but my own opinion is that the D minor sonata is actually superior to the Bb minor one.

I'm not particularly partial to either of the sonatas, but I suppose I would be if I'd heard them(joking, I've heard them a few times each).  I've not heard much negative commentary about Rachmaninoff but I know that there's a fairly established negativity about Rachmaninoff but I'm not sure why?

[Goldberg]

Oops-your quote just made manifest that dumb error I made in the first post (I'll go and edit it)--I meant that I generally have a strong aversion to Rachmaninoff, and also for that matter, Russian music in general, which has never really "done" much for me, although I will hastily admit that I have not had an excessive exposure to the composers of the country (certainly more their musicians, and I find them to be overrated most of the time, from a personal viewpoint of course). I do enjoy Scriabin, however, especially earlier Scriabin, which is of course quite similar to Chopin. I do not mind middle or late Scriabin either, but his music is more individual than anything else, singular and not attached to any real nationality--or at least that's my amateur opinion of it.

But the thing that turns me away from Rachmaninoff's music I believe is that his particular brand of virtuosity has very little effect on me, and indeed his tendency to "wear his heart on his sleeve" (I think I used that phrase elsewhere today...) irritates me, even when not considering each unique performer, and looking instead at the music itself. I grow tired of his shoulder-heavy pounding and thick, solid tones and endless gushing and mushing and so on, as is the style of playing most suited to his music; it does not appeal to me.

Now, I also find this remarkable that even having said that I am an enormous fan of Liszt and similar composers from around that part of Europe. Of course I will not ever say that Liszt is as trashy as is fashionable to say on these forums, but I confess his music tends towards conspicuous, or extroverted, virtuosity; however, his style, which is much more suited to rhythmically driven and improvisational passage work, and interpretation for that matter, very much appeals to me. Where Rachmaninoff seems too contrived, yet hardly effective beyond superficiality, Liszt at the very least is novel in his melodic and technical inventions...and I just KNOW this is going to turn into an anti-Liszt flamewar...

I just brought him up because it's generally accepted that Liszt lovers like Rachmaninoff and vice versa.

But, really, my overall impression of Rachmaninoff--and I have, by the way, listened to a good deal of his music though regretfully I haven't managed to find, or rather buy, a recording of his songs or chamber works yet, which are quite possibly very good considering they are nowhere near as popular as everything else! (heh, that's only a half joke...)--is that he is both superficial and either disorganised or unoriginal. Check out his concerti...they are all structured the same, and they even sound the same more or less. What's more, they virtually all sound like Grieg's concerto....it irritates me (and I know his concerti aren't the ONLY things he wrote...). I personally find his concerti, and his symphonies, relatively weak in orchestration too, compared to, say, Brahms, Mahler, or indeed even Scriabin or Tchaikovsky--the latter of whom I am less fond of than I am of Rachmaninoff.

One thing I can say about him, Rach that is, is that he usually has very good melodies in his works, and they are instantly accessible--but beyond that I find little substance there, or at least little that relates to me (that's very important, so don't flame me, or if you want to, at least do it rationally. I know I'm not anywhere near the most experienced member here).

Anyway, those are some pretty typical criticisms of Rachmaninoff, and I find it quite easy to agree with them myself. And, to avoid making this thread too negative, I actually will conclude by repeating that I don't mind his sonatas so much, though *I* consider the first one to be the better composition.

[Nightscape]

I would have to say my favorite thing about Rachmaninoff is not his lush melodies - which can be found in many composer's works - but his mastery of textures.

I'm listening to his first sonata right now, and one can hear how Rachmaninoff uses different pianistic techniques to create extraordinary sound worlds.  For example, in the virtuostic parts of the piece, the number of notes used is not just for showing off, but for creating sections that are quite violent, dense, and chaotic sounding.  Through these techniques Rachmaninoff can create showers of rain, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, birdsong, etc.

I've always thought that Rachmaninoff was extremely concerned with texture and color, and the virtuosity that occurs is merely a requirement to create these textures and sounds that can't be created otherwise.

As far as Rachmaninoff "wearing his heart on his sleeve" this is something practically every composer does - nay, any artist at all.  Take Webern's music for example.  He is never branded a romantic, but still there are extremely powerful emotions in his music to me - tension, horror, perverseness, anxiety.  His music may be constructed in a classical sense, but in the end his music does not sound like math to my ears, but all of the feelings I described above.  Whenever music or art sounds like math or an equation, this is when the music is dead to me.  But really, only amateurs compose that kind of music - never the great composers.

[anda]

How is this sonata?  Is it nearly as great as his second?

no - way better!

funny thing - the prologue reminds me of the begining of liszt's h moll.

[raffyplayspiano]

 ihad a hard time finding a recording of this CD, but i found a recording of the first and second sonata by Howard Shelley ( i thnk thats right)  anyway, I am very fond of Rachmaninoff sonatas, as well as the rest of his music.  I really, really like the second sonata, but if someone would say that the first sonata is greater, i would have a hard time proving it otherwise.  Listen to them when you are able to find a good copy, and decide for yourself.  let us know what you think!

Ive heard alot that Rachmaninoff wears his heart on his sleeve...and this might very well be the case, but I think that this makes his music enjoyable.  its not cheesy at any time, in my opinion--but tthats just me, i enjoy Rachmaninoff.

raffy

[mandragora]

Too bad there aren´t many recordings around. I'm not very found of  Howard Shelleys recording, but when I was in Paris I found a recording by a pianist named Yakov Kasman. His playing is very "Russian" (Hmmm, what do I mean with that, a bit clichée), the sounds he produces in the first sonata are just amazing. The recording quality is very good as well. He plays the 1st and 3d movements a bit slower than usual, but the clarity he get's is astounding.

For me, the first sonata was a strange encounter. I didn't like it, and probably had to listen to it 4-5 times, but after that - wham - I was hooked! It gets better each time I listen to it.

Good luck finding it.

[thierry13]

Personally, I really like the second sonata, but I really like better this one! Seriously ! I just LOVEEEE it!!! It really is amazing.

[thracozaag]

  Three best recordings I've heard are Kasman, Odgon, and Weissenberg.  A friend of mine has a wonderful performance of the first movement here:

https://www.drewle.com/soundclips.html


koji (STSD)

[mandragora]

@Thraco - Where do you find Ogdon's recording, it's seems darn hard to find.

[thracozaag]

@Thraco - Where do you find Ogdon's recording, it's seems darn hard to find.

  I've got the RCA LP, but I'm not sure it's ever been re-issued on CD.

koji (STSD)

[klavier920]

I personally like the first sonata more than the second. I checked out the clip Christine Yoshikawa has on her website, and I like it. Her opening of the first movement is much more expansive than most other recordings I've heard, but she captures the atmosphere so well - really ethereal stuff,  haunting, and very amazing. Thumbs up! 
https://www.christineyoshikawa.com/audio.html

I think it's live, and it seems that the mics are placed quite far. But I like it a lot. I heard in an interveiw that she's releasing an album with Eroica that'll include the Rach d minor sonata, so we'll have to look out for it, and I can't wait to hear her play the whole thing. I also like  Santiago Rodriguez' recording. I don't like the Ogden too much. Too dry, no soul.

Servarav

[musicsdarkangel]

  Three best recordings I've heard are Kasman, Odgon, and Weissenberg.  A friend of mine has a wonderful performance of the first movement here:

https://www.drewle.com/soundclips.html


koji (STSD)

Wow, not bad!

[musicman]

I have to say I love this sonata; I have begun to learn it, probably the biggest piano challenge I have ever faced.

The recording by John Ogdon is reputed to be the best one. I have the original EMI recording on LP, made before Ogdon fell sick. He recorded it again afterward, but the effect of the illness is tragically all too plain, though it's still a creditable interpretation.

I think the 1st sonata is better than the 2nd, which has been over-rated in that there appear to be more recorded performances of it.

Interesting comment above regarding the similarity of the opening of the 1st to the Liszt B minor; the 1st is supposed to have a program revolving around Faust and Mephistopheles, whose presence is unmistakable in the Liszt work.

The online recording referred to is quite good, in fact listening to it helped me resolve a harmonic/technical problem I've been having in the section not long before the 2nd subject appears.

[decadent]

Kun woo Paik, the korean pianist also made a wonderful recording.  Wesseinberg's DG account is stunning.  Would love to listen to Kasman, was it him who came second in the van cliburn after Nakamatsu?

[fergal]

 I played the second sonata for my undergraduate diploma a few years back and played the first in March just gone in my post-grad diploma. Both are great but the first is definately the better in my opinion.  Check out the more optimistic theme ( non-dies irae) in the finale. One of his best melodic lines ever surely.  Check out Berezovskys recording. top- notch.  I've actually recorded it myself (just for a demo disc for various applications) but dont really know enough about computers to be able to make it possible for people to hear. any technological whizz kids help?