ABRSM diplomas (after grade 8)

[Jacey1973]

I'm thinking about doing my diploma next year, mainly just to have something to aim for, so i keep progressing.

However the level of pieces in the (1st) diploma syllabus i studied a couple of years ago and i am currently performing pieces from the next diploma (its called L-something) so the first diploma might not be that challenging for me.

So i was wondering are these diplomas really worth doing? Do they actually count for anything? I want to do a masters in piano performance in a couple of years (i'm about to finish my undergraduate degree in music) so would it be worth doing them? The main problem i have with them is the cost - i can't believe the final diploma (or 3rd F-something!) costs £500 just for someone to listen to you for an hour - when you could just play them and progress anyway without taking the exam (thats if i had something to aim for like a concert).

Have any advanced pianists taken these diplomas? Let me know what you think of them.

[possom46]

I have taken my ATCL (trinity) and am taking the LTCL soon. My main reason for taking the exam is that i've returned to the piano after a break of nearly 10 years and needed the challenge of an exam again. The trinity recital diplomas are abit cheaper than AB and (i've heard) are tougher to pass. I needed something abit beefier for my CV which is another reason to take them maybe.

[Autumndark]

I'm with possum.  Take the Trinity exams.  They're (just barely) cheaper, and it's harder to pass -- each grade level for Trinity is approximately the equivalent of one level up in ABRSM.
Honestly, I don't think the ABRSM grade levels are worth it, and I don't have any experience in the exams past that level.  I have a Performer's Cert. from Trinity and I'm taking my ATCL next month, hoping to take LTCL in a year or two (depends on how long it takes to learn the music).  I've found Trinity to be more flexible and have a better selection of pieces, but that I guess is a judgement call.

[vera]

If you do a performance degree at university, I would not bother about those exams at all, because really, your degree is worth much more, I think. Certainly if you go for a masters degree.
 I would recommend those exams only to those, who do not aim for a university degree.
 Sometimes it may help for the audition for University entrance, but often it makes no difference at all. Regarding cost, the ABRSM is expensive, the rumour is, that the pass-rate for the diploma after grade 8 is not that high, so I am not sure, which is the tougher of the systems. My students have used both. I prefer the ABRSM repertoire, but they are pricing themselves  off the market with their LRSM.

[jason2711]

I have done an ATCL recital on the piano last march, and looked at the ABRSM and two of the pieces I played for that (Bartok opus 14 suite and Faures noctures Opus 36 number 4) where set on the LRSM.  My piano teacher thinks ABRSM is harder, but i don't really believe that  .  Oh and I think it cost me more to enter for trinity that did for the dipABRSM (doing that exam on the bassoon in june)

I mainly just did these as a step above grade 8 to show my standard better for applying to universities and possibly music colleges; i think it might help you get auditions easier, but i don't know.  Also I thought it would be kinda cool to have letters after my name at 17 

[Dazzer]

I got my A.Mus.A and L.Mus.A from the Aussie Music Examination Board. I guess taking them is almost like taking any other exam. Just to gauge your standard.

[MaryBox]

Call me ignorant, but what do ABRSM, ATCL, and LTCL represent? I'm completing my bachelor's in piano performance in the U.S., but have never heard of these things before - thanks for understanding.

[Dazzer]

Prefix

A -> Associate of
L -> Licentiate of
F -> Fellowship of

Suffix

RSM -> Royal School of Music
TCL -> Trinity College London
Mus.A. -> Music Australia

[yamaha]

I believe general opinion to be that ABRSM is harder at all levels than Trinity.  I have sat my DipABRSM twice now and failed both times    Remember, it is not just the difficulty of the pieces that counts but how you play them! There are pieces on the Dip list that are also on the LRSM list so of course the difference is how well you must play to receive a pass at each level.  The repetoire list for the ABRSM is huge, a much better selection than Trinity, although if you choose Trinity RECITAL you can do a total own choice programme ( which must be approved first)

Hope this helps 

[Dazzer]

i heard ameb's exams are the hardest in terms of standard amongst the three, but only because its circle is very VERY small. its not a worldwide standard.

[Phillip]

Like several other respondents, I also did an ATCL (recital) recently (in March), and passed it.  I also did (at about the same time) a DipLCM which I would recommend anyone to consider after Grade 8 (the London College of Music and Media is now part of Thames Valley University).  I chose repertoire that was on both syllabuses, and had to play just one extra piece for the DipLCM.  This exam is referred to by the LCM people as 'grade 9', and you only have to play for about 15 minutes - but it has a 75% pass mark, so it is easy for them to fail you.  For this exam you also have to do sightreading, which counts for 20% of the marks, but no viva or programme notes.

I chose the Trinity exam because I sometimes accompany instrumentalists sitting the DipABRSM and Guildhall diplomas, and it would be my worst nightmare to enter for an ABRSM exam in my own right, fail it, and then find that I am accompanying someone in front of the same examiner - which could easily happen.  I have never accompanied anyone doing Trinity grade or diploma exams, and so was pretty unknown there.

I chose repertoire wholly from the ATCL syllabus - which is apparently rare - most people get approval for own choice programmes.  I only decided to enter at Christmas 2004 which was too late for this.  However, it seems to me that the problem with own choice is that even if you have the approval letter, psychologically you will also somehow have the stress of justifying your choice to the examiner who might have some personal bias against your choice but can hardly cavil at the syllabus.  The Trinity syllabus is perhaps a bit selective - and has a bizarre focus on some obscure Chabrier works (which are all in the Dover book).  Also, it is a real challenge to produce non-superficial programme notes of only 300 words on 4 or 5 pieces.  The DipABRSM allows for more expansive programme notes.  However, in my experience the exam is often done by people in their late teens who do not often have the breadth of knowledge of their instrument or repertoire to do well in the viva, even though they can get external advice on the programme notes themselves.

I should say that I took the ATCL exam at Trinity in London and the facilities were superb, both the warm-up and recital pianos were excellent and the staff were friendly and helpful.  The DipLCM I took at the Regis School of Music in Bognor where the piano was the same as used for grade exams and not really good enough for diploma performances in my view (they have a better instrument in the main hall which is used as a waiting room).

On the subject of degrees, I did a degree in Maths and Music almost 30 years ago.  The music part involved some performance, but the degree itself was a BA, and as such is not immediately recognisable on a letterhead as having anything to do with music.  I belately decided to do the diplomas so that I had equivalent qualifications to the people I accompany, to have recent experience of taking exams, and also to prove to myself that I can prepare performances to a good standard (I did not take any lessons or get any second opinions when working for the exams).

Phillip

[Jacey1973]

Thanks for all the replies - i've always been told that ABRSM are more difficult/respected than trinity, but then i've never really looked into trinity exams so can't comment. But i will have a chat with my piano teacher and decide where to go from here!

[pianowelsh]

I would recommend the diplomas! If you want to do masters you should consider that the FRSM is equivalent to second year masters and counts as such on the national point scoring system. I dont believe that AB dips are in anyway easier that TCM/Guildhall ones they are every bit as rigerous - the repertoire is almost the same although with TCM there is much more free choice for the F level diploma the length of recitals is similar and the standard of marking is very high in both. In fact only some 40% pass them with AB. A good diploma would be good cv builder and will help prep rep for MMus/Ma auditions!!! The rep lists as its been pointed out are notoriously unbalanced but the AB seems to have got it more right with new one. The FLCM is in my opinion the most usefull because you have to prepare a 60min programme of difficult rep which is a useful length of time when considering MMus but there is not the depth of paperwork involved in AB exams.  The dips are a good way of keeping your playing focussed when you are not in a school full time.

Pieces on FRSM list = such works as Liszt sonata Beethoven op110, Bach-busoni chaconne, Prokofiev 6th sonata Brahms Op5 Sonata SO i think they can hardly be said to be easy to take and they mark them to college level exams.

[gezellig2005]

i don't know about after ABRSM grade 8.
but i thought the grade exams were really easy to pass.
I didn't really have to spend time on practicing,(G8)and for the musicianship thing, it was kinda knowledge from Grade5 theory exam, and making up things as I went along....

so is it a really big step after Grade 8?